Holding aggro without a Taunt?

GreenHere

Anyone know how to do this? Sounds interesting, if truly possible.

For context, in another thread, @amm7sb14_ESO commented:

FYI: Did you know, it is possible to maintain all aggro in the room without a single taunt on your bar? It is. Know how I know? Because I've done it. I have tanked without a single taunt ability on my bar, and maintained all the aggro in the room for the duration of the fight. Boss or trash.

There are more ways to accomplish the same goals. Whether it be how one tanks, heals, or even does DPS.

That other thread was about something else (which I have no interest in continuing to discuss here, so please don't!), but if there are mechanics or something in ESO that can be used to hold taunt without wasting a bar slot, I'd love to hear it!

Anyone know how's it's done? @amm7sb14_ESO , would you be willing to share how you do it?

Djennku

There's only two ways to accomplish that. Either A) he's completely solo therefore the only person who can be aggroed is himself, or B ) he's using the tormentor set and a qualifying ability as his taunt. Anything else and he's talking fluff.

GreenHere

Djennku wrote: »

There's only two ways to accomplish that. Either A) he's completely solo therefore the only person who can be aggroed is himself, or B ) he's using the tormentor set and a qualifying ability as his taunt. Anything else and he's talking fluff.

I temporarily forgot about Tormentor! Which is dumb, considering it's how I hold aggro with my Werewolf tank. :P

Good catch, thanks!



I would consider an entire 5-piece set bonus a way bigger tradeoff than an ability slot in most cases, though. If that's what they meant, that's not great. I was hoping for something more along the lines of clever exploitation of stupid NPC AI or something, haha.

VaranisArano

One of the Templar abilities, Radiant Aura, isn't a true taunt, but at least for a while it seemed to be pretty good at getting and keeping aggro for a lot of mobs at once.

But I suggest you try asking the player who said that in the first place. If they want to share their build, it'll help a lot more than our guesses.


(Ironically, I've also held boss aggro for an entire fight with no taunt...as the healer, when we had a fake tank.)

Wolfster

Tormentor set and lotus fan, probably.

GreenHere

VaranisArano wrote: »

One of the Templar abilities, Radiant Aura, isn't a true taunt, but at least for a while it seemed to be pretty good at getting and keeping aggro for a lot of mobs at once.

But I suggest you try asking the player who said that in the first place. If they want to share their build, it'll help a lot more than our guesses.

Hey, I remember using that trick back in the day now that you mention it! Blast from the past! haha

Is it even capable of aggro'ing enemies anymore, though? IIRC Minor Magickasteal from things like Ele Drain used to aggro but don't initiate fights anymore. My memory's a bit hazy, due to a ~2 year break I only came back from this year...

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Ironically, I've also held boss aggro for an entire fight with no taunt...as the healer, when we had a fake tank.)

Unfortunately, I know exactly where you're coming from there, haha. Kind of why I was hoping there was some arcane insights to be had with enemy aggro that I could learn to use/avoid as needed.

Starlight_Whisper

I suppose it's possible if he understands how aggro is generated in eso.

GreenHere

Wolfster wrote: »

Tormentor set and lotus fan, probably.

Yeah, Lotus is a great skill for it! Whichever one is the AoE Werewolf leap, and Stampede (from 2H skill line, morph of Critical Charge) are other good options that I've had lots of fun with.

I even remember trying a "hit and run" setup with that Vanguard's Challenge set plus Tormentor just so I could DK dragon yeet myself into groups of players in gate doorways and such, then bailing out while they all tried to figure out why they were doing such crap damage to everyone else. Good times! lol

Wasn't expecting this to turn into a Tormentor appreciation thread, but I'm all for it!

VaxtinTheWolf

Wolfster wrote: »

Tormentor set and lotus fan, probably.

Comically, Lotus Fan is not on the list of AOE taunts for that set for whatever godawful reason.

Starlight_Whisper

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Wolfster wrote: »

Tormentor set and lotus fan, probably.

Comically, Lotus Fan is not on the list of AOE taunts for that set for whatever godawful reason.

You sure because they did update they included everything but sorc bolt escape as far as I recall. Also werewolf leap would be same as lotus fan as teleports

redspecter23

I suppose if there are no actual tanks in the run, the aggro has to go somewhere. Why not them. I suspect they have done some testing with the "formula" that calculates aggro in this game so they know some tricks to help hold aggro without taunts, not that I would recommend that as the main way of tanking.

Also, the rest of the group has to also work well together. If you have all players grouped up, then any melee mobs will obviously run to the group. Any ranged mobs can either be chained or hit at range to mostly gain the aggro. If you get players that are all spread out and range attacking, this method becomes much harder to do efficiently.

GreenHere

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Wolfster wrote: »

Tormentor set and lotus fan, probably.

Comically, Lotus Fan is not on the list of AOE taunts for that set for whatever godawful reason.

Oh no! You're right!

Just tested on the PTS. I must have been misremembering, or they changed it. Could have swore that the secondary enemies were taunted from the Lotus spray... but they're not. Dumb.

Someone page @ToddHoward or @BillGates or someone and get them to fix this immediately!

ssewallb14_ESO

Aggro is just windowed DPS, with some mobs having unique rules. OP is probably talking about tormentor, even though you technically have a taunt on your bar if you're wearing the set and procing it.

GreenHere

GreenHere wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

One of the Templar abilities, Radiant Aura, isn't a true taunt, but at least for a while it seemed to be pretty good at getting and keeping aggro for a lot of mobs at once.

But I suggest you try asking the player who said that in the first place. If they want to share their build, it'll help a lot more than our guesses.

Hey, I remember using that trick back in the day now that you mention it! Blast from the past! haha

Is it even capable of aggro'ing enemies anymore, though? IIRC Minor Magickasteal from things like Ele Drain used to aggro but don't initiate fights anymore. My memory's a bit hazy, due to a ~2 year break I only came back from this year...

Just tested on the PTS, Radiant Aura does exactly what I remember it doing years ago (which is sad, because that skill has always been kinda lame IMO), but the debuff it applies (Minor Magickasteal) does not draw aggro at all anymore. All this skill does is put a little golden glow on enemies now – and they don't seem to mind.

Just in case anyone but me cares. ;P

GreenHere

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Wolfster wrote: »

Tormentor set and lotus fan, probably.

Comically, Lotus Fan is not on the list of AOE taunts for that set for whatever godawful reason.

You sure because they did update they included everything but sorc bolt escape as far as I recall. Also werewolf leap would be same as lotus fan as teleports

Nah, they're right. Tormentor specifically says "direct damage" from such abilities, and Lotus' AoE component is a Damage Over Time effect. It has the orange DoT numbers and everything.

Jim_Pipp

Lotus fan proc'ing tormentor would be amazing fun for NB tanks.

On topic. Dk chains has a hidden 2 second hard taunt. Works like a real taunt, but briefer.

amm7sb14_ESO

To answer the question, yes, I was using Tormentor set. I have a Nightblade tank build with Tormentor, and on the front bar I use Ambush, and on the backbar I use Silver Leash and a 2-hander with the AOE charge ability, and all of those act as my taunts on that build.

VaxtinTheWolf

Lotus Fan never worked for the Tormentor set. I commented on it in the PTS, like I have with several other issues but it's as if most things I say are an issue never get seen so at this point I've nearly stopped caring what happens with this game. Been waiting on those promised Base Game Class Tank/Healer changes for over 2 years now. The reason Lotus Fan does not work is because it's still a Single Target ability on the initial hit, and just so happens to have an AOE component added on. Tormentor set only works on abilities where the initial hit is AOE, if that's the effect you were after.

I've been trying to tell them that the CP node that reduces the cost of Damage Shields, 'Shield Master', hasn't effected Sun Shield since it was implemented in the new system, but does reduces the cost of all the other Damage Shields. Did they omit this on purpose? If it's not a Damage Shield then what the hell is it?

GreenHere

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

To answer the question, yes, I was using Tormentor set. I have a Nightblade tank build with Tormentor, and on the front bar I use Ambush, and on the backbar I use Silver Leash and a 2-hander with the AOE charge ability, and all of those act as my taunts on that build.

Ah, well thanks for answering!

Gotta say, I'm a bit deflated, though. Was really hoping I was gonna learn some secret trick that let me see the code in the Matrix or something today, haha.

Sanguinor2

Dk chains are great at getting aggro without being any kind of taunt, but that is all I can think of.

Djennku

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Dk chains are great at getting aggro without being any kind of taunt, but that is all I can think of.

Chains don't taunt. They never did. The only exception is when paired with the Tormentor set.

GreenHere

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Lotus Fan never worked for the Tormentor set. I commented on it in the PTS, like I have with several other issues but it's as if most things I say are an issue never get seen so at this point I've nearly stopped caring what happens with this game. Been waiting on those promised Base Game Class Tank/Healer changes for over 2 years now. The reason Lotus Fan does not work is because it's still a Single Target ability on the initial hit, and just so happens to have an AOE component added on. Tormentor set only works on abilities where the initial hit is AOE, if that's the effect you were after.

I've been trying to tell them that the CP node that reduces the cost of Damage Shields, 'Shield Master', hasn't effected Sun Shield since it was implemented in the new system, but does reduces the cost of all the other Damage Shields. Did they omit this on purpose? If it's not a Damage Shield then what the hell is it?

I feel ya. The complete lack of acknowledgement (let alone fixes/adjustments) to issues brought up by players (including me) has led me to stop reporting bugs and such on the PTS as well. Sure feels like a waste of time more often than not. It really is discouraging. Oh well.

GreenHere

Djennku wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Dk chains are great at getting aggro without being any kind of taunt, but that is all I can think of.

Chains don't taunt. They never did. The only exception is when paired with the Tormentor set.

Yeah, gotta agree there. Without the Tormentor set forcing taunt, I feel like 95% of the guys I chain in just immediately "NOPENOPENOPE" right back away from me as soon as the pull ends. I've always wished that they applied a ~2 Immobilization after the pull, but these decisions aren't up to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sanguinor2

Djennku wrote: »

Chains don't taunt. They never did. The only exception is when paired with the Tormentor set.

I literally said that they are no taunt. Merely that for me it worked decently often to grab aggro of someone else.

ssewallb14_ESO

There is a hidden 2 second taunt on most pulls, like the guy above said. It also breaks some mob specific aggro rules in some fights. Vate s+b is the only exception I know of, possibly swarm mother though I haven't tested it.

iksde

hard and soft cc's seems to have also higher agro buildup

very often for me it is enough to just use caltrops and ice ele wall on trash group without using a single taunt and jsut spam sap essence on my nb tank and all mobs have agro on me
same will be with dk talons or other immiblizie skills along with cc skills as fear from necro totem

and fighters guild silver leash whic works like dk chains, once U pull mod to me he isntantly agro on me from having agro on other teammate before pull, very often dont need use a single taunt for pulled enemies if I keep them inside my aoe's soft cc's with this small damage

NoSoup

a long long time ago enemies would auto agro the first group person that attacked them so it would be a stanard procedure for the tank to drop caltrops as soon as they ran into the room and it was up to the DPS to kill them before they lost agro... I think this ended like 10 cycles ago though?

antimawkish

NoSoup wrote: »

a long long time ago enemies would auto agro the first group person that attacked them so it would be a stanard procedure for the tank to drop caltrops as soon as they ran into the room and it was up to the DPS to kill them before they lost agro... I think this ended like 10 cycles ago though?

Something in the rules definitely seems to have changed. When I did some casual testing in 2018 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4809911), I tanked most dungeons without taunting by doing exactly what you describe -- open with a aoe that has a big target area, then just keep it active to hold aggro. Seemed to be about a 7 second cycle where mobs attacked whoever touched them first and then switched targets 7 seconds later if that person was no longer touching them.

I haven't run any new tests, but observations from tanking are that holding aggro without taunt still seems to work for direct damage, but not damage over time. For example, if my nightblade tank runs in and starts spamming sap essence (aoe dd damage + heal), it has aggro on everything in range of sap until death do us part. If I toss a targeted aoe dot instead, the mobs will scatter around like they don't know who cast the dang aoe. Same deal on single target.

Guess it's time for another round of testing to figure out what specifically changed. Could be the timer to forget their target changed, could be the way hate is assigned from dots changed, and so on...

robpr

Djennku wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Dk chains are great at getting aggro without being any kind of taunt, but that is all I can think of.

Chains don't taunt. They never did. The only exception is when paired with the Tormentor set.

They don't apply "taunted" debuff on enemy but if enemy is not taunted, enemy you used Chains on will focus you even if you dont move them. Aggro from chains can still be stolen by damage, cc or proper taunt.

Zenzuki

I'm not sure...

Lemme ask Mirri.

Starlight_Whisper

Djennku wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Dk chains are great at getting aggro without being any kind of taunt, but that is all I can think of.

Chains don't taunt. They never did. The only exception is when paired with the Tormentor set.

They do generate aggro which makes things attack you which is similar to taunting