Heartland Conqueror set is bugged (when using infused).

Lephrel

Even though the tooltip clearly states that the effectiveness of every weapon trait is increased by 100%, this simply isn't the case with the infused trait. Only the enchantment power is increased when wearing the set, but not the cooldown (infused becomes 60% increased enchantment power, 50% reduced cooldown).
Example enchantment damage:

• Without infused: 2k damage every 5s.
• With infused: 5,2k damage every 5s, i.e. 2,6k damage every 2,5s. (2,6x more powerful)
• With infused & Heartland Conqueror: 6,4k damage every 5s, i.e. 3,2k dmg every 2,5s. (3,2x more powerful)

What the hell? In theory, the infused trait increases the power of an enchantment by a factor of 2,6, thus the Heartland Conqueror conqueror set should buff this to a factor of 5,2. To achieve this goal, the enchantment cooldown has to be reduced by 69.2% (proc frequency increased by a factor of 3,25 and power obviously increased by a factor of 1,6 => total power increase by a factor of 5,2).

Perhaps the tooltip is meant to imply that the damage increase you gain from using a weapon trait is doubled. However, their implementation would still be incorrect: In the example above infused gives a 3,2k damage increase per 5s and infused & Heartland Conqueror give a 4,4k damage increase per 5s (it should be a 6,4k increase, however). In this case, the cooldown would have to be reduced by 61.9%: (proc frequency increased by a factor of 2,63 and proc power by a factor of 1,6 => total power increased by factor of 4,2 (i.e. a 6,4k damage increase for the enchantment, 2k*4,2=8,4k and 8,4k-2k=6,4k)).

How could they even get this wrong? If I am misinformed about something, pls let me know. Otherwise, I really hope they fix it by next week, as this is a major mistake.

Disclaimer, the damage increase is purely theoretical. In practice it will become increasingly hard to proc your enchantments on cooldown, as the cooldown becomes shorter (b.c. of light attack and skill cooldowns and because of bar swapping). Additionally, I didn't check whether or not the enchantment potency increase stacks additively or multiplicatively with other damage buffs, so these are very rough numbers, but I think my point is still valid.

phaneub17_ESO

From what I gather is that the cooldown never changes, the same as if you were to upgrade a weapon from White to Legendary the cooldown remains at 50% reduction rate, only the potency level increases from 10 to 30%. Heartland Conqueror only affects the increased potency as well leaving the reduction rate alone.

Lephrel

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

From what I gather is that the cooldown never changes, the same as if you were to upgrade a weapon from White to Legendary the cooldown remains at 50% reduction rate, only the potency level increases from 10 to 30%. Heartland Conqueror only affects the increased potency as well leaving the reduction rate alone.

@phaneub17_ESO Well yes, but that is exactly the problem. Only increasing the enchantment potency doesn't increase the effectiveness of the the infused trait by 100%. And the tooltip clearly states:

Increase the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%. This does not effect Ornate or Intricate traits.

phaneub17_ESO

No, I get what you're saying, but the cooldown is hard coded at 50% reduction rate consistently, that portion of it is not going to be affected by the set. Only the part that increases enchant potency changes, that is intentional.

Lephrel

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

No, I get what you're saying, but the cooldown is hard coded at 50% reduction rate consistently, that portion of it is not going to be affected by the set. Only the part that increases enchant potency changes, that is intentional.

Whether or not it is "hardcoded" is irrelevant and if it is truly intentional, then the tooltip is completely misleading and inconsistent (because other weapon traits are actually increased by 100%).
The fact that upgrading doesn't change the cooldown, doesn't really mean anything. Just because the dragon blood tt stays at 33% missing hp as you rank up the skill doesn't mean it shouldn't be affected by healing modifiers, does it?

molecule

Torugs Pact has a lower than 50% cool down, so it is possible to do. I agree that the description is misleading .

Lephrel

molecule wrote: »

Torugs Pact has a lower than 50% cool down, so it is possible to do. I agree that the description is misleading .

True. Also, Torug's Pact does exactly what Heartland Conqueror should be doing (when used with infused, the enchantment dps is 5,2 times higher, i.e. 100% increase to infused). In order for these 5 piece bonuses to be in line, Heartland Conqueror has to be adjusted. As it is, Torug's Pact is superior to Heartland Conqueror in every way.

Edit: I double checked. Apparently Torug's potency increase stacks multiplicatively with infused. So, if fact, we end up with a 5.6x enchantment dps.

relentless_turnip

This was discussed a few times during the PTS cycle. I think it is intended tbh.

HankTwo

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

Lephrel

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely). And 8k dps isn't particularly good considering the fact that you'd need to spent a weapon trait and two 5pc bonuses on it.
So, balance wise, it's actually a terrible thing that Heartland doesn't reduce the cooldown. Atm it's an absolutely awful 5 piece bonus when you compare it to Torug's (which gives more damage and a lower cooldown) or any other set for that matter.

MurderMostFoul

The 30% potency increase and 50% cooldown reduction provided by infused are both multiplicative modifiers. If you increase them both by 100%, you are effectively doubling the effect of heartland conqueror on the infused trait, whereas it only applies once to all other traits. Roughly represented mathematically:

100% increase x (30% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) = 100% increase x 30% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction

versus

100% increase x (30% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) =/= 100% increase x 30% potency increase x 100% increase x 50% cooldown reduction

The second example reflects heartland conqueror effecting both the potency increase and cooldown reduction of infused. Mathematically, that doesn't make sense. It would be applying the 100% modifier twice, which would make it way better on infused then any other trait. That certainly wasn't the intention.

Septimus_Magna

Wouldnt the overall enchant effect be increased by 200% if it reduced the cooldown by 100% and increased the dmg by 100%? Right now its not double dipping so it appears to be in line with precise, nirnhoned, sharpened etc.

Lephrel

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The 60% potency increase and 50% cooldown reduction provided by infused are both multiplicative modifiers. If you increase them both by 100%, you are effectively doubling the effect of heartland conqueror on the infused trait, whereas it only applies once to all other traits. Roughly represented mathematically:

100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) = 100% increase x 60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction

versus

100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) =/= 100% increase x 60% potency increase x 100% increase x 50% cooldown reduction

The second example reflects heartland conqueror effecting both the potency increase and cooldown reduction of infused. Mathematically, that doesn't make since. It would be applying the 100% modifier twice, which would make it way better on infused then any other trait. That certainly wasn't the intention.

@MurderMostFoul I'm sorry, I think you made a couple mistakes, correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Infused doesn't give a potency increase of 60%, infused (by itself) gives a 30% potency increase.
2. Statements like "100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction)" have no meaning. Admittedly, the tooltip is very vague, it's not immediately clear what increasing "the effectiveness of weapon traits" means. Either it means that the dps added by using infused is doubled, or it means that multiplier on enchantment damage (which is added by infused) is doubled (i.e. infused increases enchant damage by a factor of 2,6, so heartland increase that to a factor of 5,2).

You also said, infused + heartland would be way better than any other trait, this is also false. It's hard to compare the effectiveness of traits, but consider this:

1. If you use sharpened and heartland, you gain 3276 penetration. That is about 95% of the spinner 5 piece bonus.
2. If you use infused and heartland, you only gain a 30% increase (additively stacking) to your enchantment potency (i.e. enchantment dps is increased by 3,2x). If you were to use Torug's Pact and infused, your enchantment dps would be increased by 5,6x. You can see that the effectiveness of heartland is far smaller than the effectiveness of another 5 piece set. See the op for explanation.

HankTwo

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

So, balance wise, it's actually a terrible thing that Heartland doesn't reduce the cooldown. Atm it's an absolutely awful 5 piece bonus when you compare it to Torug's (which gives more damage and a lower cooldown) or any other set for that matter.

Explain why a highly adaptable set like heartland conqueror, that has a wide plethora of use cases, should be as strong as a highly specialized set like torugs pact in its very own niche. I guess you also think heartland should give ~ 400 spell and weapon damage then when used with nirnhoned front + backbar?

Imo the set is perfectly fine, looks pretty strong actually. You can easily use it with a combo like sharpened front and defending backbar, to get a slightly weaker spriggans/spinners and fortified brass combo in one set. Or you can use it on a combo like dw nirn + sharpened frontbar and powered backbar. What makes this set good in general, is that you can get an offensive effect on the front and a defensive effect on the backbar. It doesnt need to be as good as highly specialized sets in their own niches. In fact, that would make this set flat out op.

Lephrel

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Wouldnt the overall enchant effect be increased by 200% if it reduced the cooldown by 100% and increased the dmg by 100%? Right now its not double dipping so it appears to be in line with precise, nirnhoned, sharpened etc.

@Septimus_Magna I never suggested that the cooldown reduction should be 100%, resulting no cooldown at all. If that were the case, the effect wouldn't just be 200%, it would be far greater (you could spam light attack+crushing shock and proc the enchantment 4 times per second).

It isn't in line with precise, nirnhoned, sharpened etc. Only buffing one part of the trait makes the set incredibly weak on infused. It's as if heartland would only increase the critical healing chance of precise but not the critical damage chance. I showed in the OP above that the effectiveness of infused isn't increased by 100% - not even close.

Dagoth_Rac

So Infused Heartland versus Infused non-Heartland makes, for example, a 5000 flame glyph go from 5000 to 6153 (i.e., 5000 / 1.3 = 3846, and 3846 * 1.6 = 6153). And that is the whole of the 5-piece bonus? Wow. That is incredibly weak. Am I misunderstanding it?

Lephrel

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

@HankTwo Cooldown reduction stacks multiplicatively. If heartland+infused were to give 69% cooldown reduction and Torug's 33% reduction, then enchantment cooldown would be 5.00s*0.310*0.670=1.04s (roughly), that is far from being half a second.
If you want to use two dmg glyphs on the front and back, then yes, you can get an 8k proc every second on one bar and an 8k procs every two seconds on the backbar (the cooldown is still more than 1s, so the enchantment doesn't proc with every tick of blockade). On top of that, if you account for barswapping, you will do even less damage.

Let us generously assume that you can pull 12k dps with that. It is still far from being OP or even from being decent. Remember, you need two 5pc bonuses, two weapon traits and two enchantments to get 12k dps. It would be atrocious in both PvE and PvP. Perhaps you aren't particularly experienced with veteran content and pvp yet, 12k dps isn't a lot of damage.

Just look at Torug's Pact, the set is exactly as strong as heartland + double infused would be, if they implemented the change I suggested. And yet, Torug's Pact is barely viable in any content, it is niche at best.

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

So, balance wise, it's actually a terrible thing that Heartland doesn't reduce the cooldown. Atm it's an absolutely awful 5 piece bonus when you compare it to Torug's (which gives more damage and a lower cooldown) or any other set for that matter.

Explain why a highly adaptable set like heartland conqueror, that has a wide plethora of use cases, should be as strong as a highly specialized set like torugs pact in its very own niche. I guess you also think heartland should give ~ 400 spell and weapon damage then when used with nirnhoned front + backbar?

Imo the set is perfectly fine, looks pretty strong actually. You can easily use it with a combo like sharpened front and defending backbar, to get a slightly weaker spriggans/spinners and fortified brass combo in one set. Or you can use it on a combo like dw nirn + sharpened frontbar and powered backbar. What makes this set good in general, is that you can get an offensive effect on the front and a defensive effect on the backbar. It doesnt need to be as good as highly specialized sets in their own niches. In fact, that would make this set flat out op.

I never said Heartland was a weak set (it kind of is). I said it was weaker, if used together with infused. Torug's may be more specialised, but it is faaar more powerful when using double infused. My point is, Heartland doesn't buff infused as strongly as it buffs all the other traits. The set might be semi-decent, when used with other traits, but it is absolutely atrocious with infused.

MurderMostFoul

Lephrel wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The 60% potency increase and 50% cooldown reduction provided by infused are both multiplicative modifiers. If you increase them both by 100%, you are effectively doubling the effect of heartland conqueror on the infused trait, whereas it only applies once to all other traits. Roughly represented mathematically:

100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) = 100% increase x 60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction

versus

100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) =/= 100% increase x 60% potency increase x 100% increase x 50% cooldown reduction

The second example reflects heartland conqueror effecting both the potency increase and cooldown reduction of infused. Mathematically, that doesn't make since. It would be applying the 100% modifier twice, which would make it way better on infused then any other trait. That certainly wasn't the intention.

@MurderMostFoul I'm sorry, I think you made a couple mistakes, correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Infused doesn't give a potency increase of 60%, infused (by itself) gives a 30% potency increase.
2. Statements like "100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction)" have no meaning. Admittedly, the tooltip is very vague, it's not immediately clear what increasing "the effectiveness of weapon traits" means. Either it means that the dps added by using infused is doubled, or it means that multiplier on enchantment damage (which is added by infused) is doubled (i.e. infused increases enchant damage by a factor of 2,6, so heartland increase that to a factor of 5,2).

You also said, infused + heartland would be way better than any other trait, this is also false. It's hard to compare the effectiveness of traits, but consider this:

1. If you use sharpened and heartland, you gain 3276 penetration. That is about 95% of the spinner 5 piece bonus.
2. If you use infused and heartland, you only gain a 30% increase (additively stacking) to your enchantment potency (i.e. enchantment dps is increased by 3,2x). If you were to use Torug's Pact and infused, your enchantment dps would be increased by 5,2x. You can see that the effectiveness of heartland is far smaller than the effectiveness of another 5 piece set. See the op for explanation.

Thanks, fixed the %s, I was mixed up with jewelry infused.

My main point was that it would be twice as effective on infused then any other trait.

100% increase x (30% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) =/= 100% increase x 30% potency increase x 100% increase x 50% cooldown reduction

The above is just a simple algebraic expression of this point. Heartland Conqueror's "Increase the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%" is most rationally interpreted as a x2 multiplier. Applying this multiplier twice doesn't make sense mathematically (as reflected in the equation) and it would create a inconsistencies with the set's application from trait to trait.

Lephrel

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

So Infused Heartland versus Infused non-Heartland makes, for example, a 5000 flame glyph go from 5000 to 6153 (i.e., 5000 / 1.3 = 3846, and 3846 * 1.6 = 6153). And that is the whole of the 5-piece bonus? Wow. That is incredibly weak. Am I misunderstanding it?

@Dagoth_Rac You understood it perfectly, thanks. And yes, it is weak. A lot of ppl didn't read the OP carefully though.

Lephrel

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The 60% potency increase and 50% cooldown reduction provided by infused are both multiplicative modifiers. If you increase them both by 100%, you are effectively doubling the effect of heartland conqueror on the infused trait, whereas it only applies once to all other traits. Roughly represented mathematically:

100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) = 100% increase x 60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction

versus

100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) =/= 100% increase x 60% potency increase x 100% increase x 50% cooldown reduction

The second example reflects heartland conqueror effecting both the potency increase and cooldown reduction of infused. Mathematically, that doesn't make since. It would be applying the 100% modifier twice, which would make it way better on infused then any other trait. That certainly wasn't the intention.

@MurderMostFoul I'm sorry, I think you made a couple mistakes, correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Infused doesn't give a potency increase of 60%, infused (by itself) gives a 30% potency increase.
2. Statements like "100% increase x (60% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction)" have no meaning. Admittedly, the tooltip is very vague, it's not immediately clear what increasing "the effectiveness of weapon traits" means. Either it means that the dps added by using infused is doubled, or it means that multiplier on enchantment damage (which is added by infused) is doubled (i.e. infused increases enchant damage by a factor of 2,6, so heartland increase that to a factor of 5,2).

You also said, infused + heartland would be way better than any other trait, this is also false. It's hard to compare the effectiveness of traits, but consider this:

1. If you use sharpened and heartland, you gain 3276 penetration. That is about 95% of the spinner 5 piece bonus.
2. If you use infused and heartland, you only gain a 30% increase (additively stacking) to your enchantment potency (i.e. enchantment dps is increased by 3,2x). If you were to use Torug's Pact and infused, your enchantment dps would be increased by 5,2x. You can see that the effectiveness of heartland is far smaller than the effectiveness of another 5 piece set. See the op for explanation.

Thanks, fixed the %s, I was mixed up with jewelry infused.

My main point was that it would be twice as effective on infused then any other trait.

100% increase x (30% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction) =/= 100% increase x 30% potency increase x 100% increase x 50% cooldown reduction

The above is just a simple algebraic expression of this point. Heartland Conqueror's "Increase the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%" is most rationally interpreted as a x2 multiplier. Applying this multiplier twice doesn't make sense mathematically (as reflected in the equation) and it would create a inconsistencies with the set's application from trait to trait.

@MurderMostFoul
My point was, expressions like "100% increase x (30% potency increase x 50% cooldown reduction)" have no mathematical meaning. I kind of get what you are trying to say, but you are making things unnecessarily complicated.

You talk about a x2 multiplier, but what is it applied to? Infused increases the dps of an enchantment by a factor of 2,6 (50% cooldown reduction increases the dps by a factor of 2, 30% potency increases dps by a factor of 1,3). If you want the enchantment multiplier of infused to be doubled, that means heartland+infused will increase enchantment dps by a factor of 2*2,6=5,2.
Obviously, it isn't enough to increase the enchantment potency by 60% (1.6*2=3,2 is only 23% greater than the previous multiplier of 2.6%).

Please read the OP again carefully, I explained it all there.

Dagoth_Rac

Lephrel wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

So Infused Heartland versus Infused non-Heartland makes, for example, a 5000 flame glyph go from 5000 to 6153 (i.e., 5000 / 1.3 = 3846, and 3846 * 1.6 = 6153). And that is the whole of the 5-piece bonus? Wow. That is incredibly weak. Am I misunderstanding it?

@Dagoth_Rac You understood it perfectly, thanks. And yes, it is weak. A lot of ppl didn't read the OP carefully though.

I was thinking of how it might affect buff/debuff glyphs, where cooldown is less of a concern. But an infused "berserker" weapon enchant is 352 * 1.3 = 458 weapon/spell damage and a Heartland infused weapon enchant is 352 * 1.6 = 563 weapon/spell damage. 563 - 458 = 105 extra weapon/spell damage. That means the 5-piece bonus of 105 is less than the 129 weapon/spell damage you get from a standard 2-4 piece bonus. If you look at Heartland Nirnhoned, the weapon/spell damage goes from 1535 to 1735 or 1806 to 2042, depending on 1H/Ranged 2H or Melee 2H. That is between 200 and 236 extra weapon/spell damage, double or more than Heartland Infused.

No matter how you cut it, Heartland Infused is really weak compared to not just other 5-piece bonuses, but the 5-piece Heartland bonus on traits other than Infused.

HankTwo

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

@HankTwo Cooldown reduction stacks multiplicatively. If heartland+infused were to give 69% cooldown reduction and Torug's 33% reduction, then enchantment cooldown would be 5.00s*0.310*0.670=1.04s (roughly), that is far from being half a second.

I still don't agree with this 69% number, it makes little sense to me. Infused decreases enchant cooldown by 50%. If heartland would multiplicatively double that, it would lead to a 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25 --> 75% reduction of enchant cooldown. Combined with torugs this would result in a 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.67 = 0.1675 --> 83.25% cooldown reduction.

Furthermore, base damage enchant cooldown is 4 seconds, not 5. I just tested this minutes ago on the life server against a dummy to make sure. So with all things combined it would lead to an enchant cd of 4 * 0.1675 = 0.67 seconds --> well below 1 second (even with your wrong number of 5 seconds it would be below 1 second --> 0.5 * 0.1675 = 0.8375 or with the correct 4 seconds and your 69% reduction --> 4 * 0.32 * 0.67 = 0.8308).

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

If you want to use two dmg glyphs on the front and back, then yes, you can get an 8k proc every second on one bar and an 8k procs every two seconds on the backbar (the cooldown is still more than 1s, so the enchantment doesn't proc with every tick of blockade). On top of that, if you account for barswapping, you will do even less damage.

As explained above, the cooldown would go well below 1 second, which acts as a 'jump point' due to the tick frequency of skills like elemental blockade as well as the GCD and would therefore effectively result in a doubling of dps.

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

Let us generously assume that you can pull 12k dps with that. It is still far from being OP or even from being decent. Remember, you need two 5pc bonuses, two weapon traits and two enchantments to get 12k dps. It would be atrocious in both PvE and PvP. Perhaps you aren't particularly experienced with veteran content and pvp yet, 12k dps isn't a lot of damage.

Ofc I was not talking about PvE but PvP. And if you think 12k constant tooltip dps is atrocious in PvP, especially in no CP, you have no clue what you are talking about. Again for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip dps with malacath pre patch and was considered grossly overpowered. This would be 4 times as much. Or look at typical destro ult tooltips, they are usually in the range of ~ 8, maybe 9k (on well rounded builds, not bomber ofc). I mean let me ask you this, what do you think is the average dps and hps when two good players are dueling each other in no CP? It is the same kind of argument as when people kept saying ~ 1.2k true dps from a single set in PvP is weak... well guess what, its not.

Edit: I dont disagree that simply combining heartland + infused is not strong on the life server atm (so without the extra cooldown reduction you are suggesting). But as long as edge cases like the one explained above exist, where the effective dps suddenly skyrockets, I dont want this combination in the game.

Lephrel

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

@HankTwo Cooldown reduction stacks multiplicatively. If heartland+infused were to give 69% cooldown reduction and Torug's 33% reduction, then enchantment cooldown would be 5.00s*0.310*0.670=1.04s (roughly), that is far from being half a second.

I still don't understand where you are getting this 69% number from. Infused decreases enchant cooldown by 50%. If heartland would multiplicatively double that, it would lead to a 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25 --> 75% reduction of enchant cooldown. Combined with torugs this would result in a 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.67 = 0.1675 --> 83.25% cooldown reduction.

@HankTwo I explained the 69% percent number in the OP...if you reply to the topic, pls read the OP first. I never suggested that Heartland should decrease the cooldown by another factor of 0.5. Again, it's all written in the OP. I certainly never suggested that the enchantment cooldown should be lower than 1s.

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

Let us generously assume that you can pull 12k dps with that. It is still far from being OP or even from being decent. Remember, you need two 5pc bonuses, two weapon traits and two enchantments to get 12k dps. It would be atrocious in both PvE and PvP. Perhaps you aren't particularly experienced with veteran content and pvp yet, 12k dps isn't a lot of damage.

Ofc I was not talking about PvE but PvP. And if you think 12k constant tooltip dps is atrocious in PvP, especially in no CP, you have no clue what you are talking about. Again for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip dps with malacath pre patch and was considered grossly overpowered. This would be 4 times as much. Or look at typical destro ult tooltips, they are usually in the range of ~ 8, maybe 9k (on well rounded builds, not bomber ofc). I mean let me ask you this, what do you think is the average dps and hps when two good players are dueling each other in no CP? It is the same kind of argument as when people kept saying ~ 1.2k true dps from a single set in PvP is weak... well guess what, its not.

Edit: I dont disagree that simply combining heartland + infused is not strong on the life server atm (so without the extra cooldown reduction you are suggesting). But as long as edge cases like the one explained above exist, where the effective dps suddenly skyrockets, I dont want this combination in the game.

12k dps is atrocious, if you actually consider the fact that it takes two 5pc sets, two weapon glyphs and two weapon traits to get there. The vateshran destro only takes up two equipment slots on either the frontbar or the backbar, you can't compare the two. You can run 2x dot proc sets and vateshran backbar with infused damage glyphs on stamina and get way higher dps from your procs alone (I wouldn't suggest it though).

relentless_turnip

Heartland is a very good set it may end up making up part of the meta. If double barred it is a powerful offensive and defensive set. Even if you want to capitalise on the infused trait with torugs pact the damage glyph hits very hard. I was testing this with others on the PTS. It is very decent considering how tanky you become with these 2 sets.

I am using this on my magdk.
Sithis helm, 1 piece domihaus, heartlands, front bar BSW(sharpened) and maelstrom powered resto back bar. Feels pretty good 👍

Lephrel

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Heartland is a very good set it may end up making up part of the meta. If double barred it is a powerful offensive and defensive set. Even if you want to capitalise on the infused trait with torugs pact the damage glyph hits very hard. I was testing this with others on the PTS. It is very decent considering how tanky you become with these 2 sets.

I am using this on my magdk.
Sithis helm, 1 piece domihaus, heartlands, front bar BSW(sharpened) and maelstrom powered resto back bar. Feels pretty good 👍

It's an ok pvp set, when you use it with sharpened front/defending back. I'm not calling for a buff, I just want it to give the same bonus to infused as does to all other traits, Zeni definitely made a mistake with this set.

HankTwo

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

@HankTwo Cooldown reduction stacks multiplicatively. If heartland+infused were to give 69% cooldown reduction and Torug's 33% reduction, then enchantment cooldown would be 5.00s*0.310*0.670=1.04s (roughly), that is far from being half a second.

I still don't understand where you are getting this 69% number from. Infused decreases enchant cooldown by 50%. If heartland would multiplicatively double that, it would lead to a 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25 --> 75% reduction of enchant cooldown. Combined with torugs this would result in a 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.67 = 0.1675 --> 83.25% cooldown reduction.

@HankTwo I explained the 69% percent number in the OP...if you reply to the topic, pls read the OP first. I never suggested that Heartland should decrease the cooldown by another factor of 0.5. Again, it's all written in the OP. I certainly never suggested that the enchantment cooldown should be lower than 1s.

I edited my post, that remark about the 69% value was not worded well. Yeah I get now how you calculate this, but it still doesn't make much sense to me. The aim seemed to be to have a linear increase in dps, so since adding infused increases enchant dps by a factor of 2.6, then adding heartland should increase this linearily from the baseline by another 2.6. This was accomplished by giving it a 38% cooldown reduction instead of a 50%. However, this whole approach falls apart when you would add another source with the exact same effect of heartland on top (it would result in 1.9x enchant damage and a cd of 0.77 cd which would result in a linear increase of 4.7 extra dps compared to the baseline, not 2.6), unless you let the cooldown reduction scale dynamically, which is very counter intuitive. This may sound irrelevant at fist, but if we take torugs into consideration exactly this happens, and it is why the damage increases so sharply by adding more and more dmg increase combined with cd reductions:

1) Base enchant: 1x base dmg and cd of 4 s --> dps = 0.25
2) Infused enchant: 1.3x base dmg and cd of 2 s --> dps = 0.65 (or 2.6x base)
3) Infused enchant with your version of heartland:1.6x base dmg and cd of 1.24 s --> dps = 1.29 (or ~ 5.2x base = 2 times the previous step but linear increase of 2.6)

But if we now start with infused + torugs instead:
4) Infused + torugs: base dmg 1.75x base dmg and cd of 1.34 s --> dps = 1.306 (or 5.224x base)
and then add heartland:
5) Infused + torugs + heartland: 2.05x base dmg and cd of 0.8308 s --> dps = 2.468 (or ~ 9.872x base = 1.890 times the previous step but linear increase of 4.648!)

So in this case the whole approach of increasing enchant dps linearily by a factor of 2.6 compared to base already fails, and instead we have an increase of 4.648. The only way to keep that 2.6 would be to dynamically scale heartland cd reduction based on the amount you already have (edit: in this case it would need to be ~ 22%), which is a bit convoluted and counter intuitive.

Furthermore as we can see, the enchant cooldown still goes well below 1 second (unless it scales dynamically):
4 * 0.5 * 0.62 * 0.67 = 4 * 0.31 * 0.67 = 0.8308 seconds --> this problem still remains.

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, balance-wise its a very good thing that heartland conqueror doesn't reduce enchant cooldown further with infused. If it did, you could push the cooldown of damage enchants below 1 second by combining infused + torugs + heartland, which would effectively result in a 100% dps increase on top. This would push such a type of build beyond what I would consider balanced (I checked build editor and could reach a combined enchant damage of over 16k per second...). Since enchants don't scale, it would simply create a loophole for a potentially op proctank build, which ZOS just tried to remove from the game. So no, thank you.

With normal enchants, you can get approximately 8k tooltip damage every 1.04s (only prismatic enchants have a 16k tt, but that's another issue entirely).

Read more careful, I said 'combined enchant damage'. On any magbuild running flame/shock staff front and ice staff back with blockade of frost you can easily keep proccing both enchants at the same time. And to top it off, you would gain constant immobilizations from the frost enchant + blockade combo. Furthermore, where is this 1.04s number coming from? If hearlands would cut the enchant cooldown further in half, then that would push the cd well below 1 second, which is impossible to achieve rn, and precisely what would push this build type to being op.

All in all, it would be very unfun to play against. You should not be able to get ~ 9.5k tooltip damage per second (blockade tick + frost enchant, see build below for reference) + constant immobilizations on target just from keeping up blockade of frost on the backbar, and you should not be able to get ~ 17.8k tooltip damage per second (light attack + crushing shock + flame enchant) from simply light attack weaving your spammable on the frontbar on a 40k+ hp tank. This is not healthy for the game. Just for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip damage per second and was considered one of the most op sets. As explained, this setup would have up to ~16.5k tooltip damage per second just from the enchants.

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352377

Let us generously assume that you can pull 12k dps with that. It is still far from being OP or even from being decent. Remember, you need two 5pc bonuses, two weapon traits and two enchantments to get 12k dps. It would be atrocious in both PvE and PvP. Perhaps you aren't particularly experienced with veteran content and pvp yet, 12k dps isn't a lot of damage.

Ofc I was not talking about PvE but PvP. And if you think 12k constant tooltip dps is atrocious in PvP, especially in no CP, you have no clue what you are talking about. Again for reference, vateshran destro had ~ 3k tooltip dps with malacath pre patch and was considered grossly overpowered. This would be 4 times as much. Or look at typical destro ult tooltips, they are usually in the range of ~ 8, maybe 9k (on well rounded builds, not bomber ofc). I mean let me ask you this, what do you think is the average dps and hps when two good players are dueling each other in no CP? It is the same kind of argument as when people kept saying ~ 1.2k true dps from a single set in PvP is weak... well guess what, its not.

Edit: I dont disagree that simply combining heartland + infused is not strong on the life server atm (so without the extra cooldown reduction you are suggesting). But as long as edge cases like the one explained above exist, where the effective dps suddenly skyrockets, I dont want this combination in the game.

12k dps is atrocious, if you actually consider the fact that it takes two 5pc sets, two weapon glyphs and two weapon traits to get there. The vateshran destro only takes up two equipment slots on either the frontbar or the backbar, you can't compare the two. You can run 2x dot proc sets and vateshran backbar with infused damage glyphs on stamina and get way higher dps from your procs alone (I wouldn't suggest it though).

Vateshran was considered an extremely potent dot proc, 2-piece arena set or not, since it actually gave more dps than the vast majority of 5-piece dot proc sets (unleashed, syvarra, hunters venom, icy conjuerer, ...and those were still being used). If there would have been a 5-piece set with the exact same effect as vate, people would have used it. So sacrificing 2x 5-pieces and 2x weapon traits for 4 or even up to 5 times the damage of old vateshran doesnt sound bad at all.

I mean lets look at the single target tooltip dps potential of a 100% full proc build with mala pre-patch outside of skills/light attacks. To have a fair comparison I looked at a magden, so we again have strong percentage damage passives, and I still included full 2x infused enchant damage with perfect uptime for the sake of the argument:

Vate destro: ~ 3.4k dps
BRP destro: ~ 2.0k dps
Icy conjurer: ~ 3.2k dps
Maw of infernal: ~ 2.7k dps
Infused fire enchant frontbar: ~2.3k dps
Infused frost enchant backbar: ~ 2.5k dps

---

= 16.1k dps (using the same uptime estimation as you used for the enchant dmg setup this would be 16.1k * (12 / 16.5) = 11.7k)

For reference: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=352483

So the maximum dps of this pre-patch full proc setup outside of skills/light attacks would still have been a bit lower than the potential 16.5k dps from enchants alone in case of the torugs + heartlander post-patch setup with an enchant cd below 1 second. And this is the exact build type ZOS wanted to remove - lots of 'passive' damage from sets while sitting in heavy armor and investing everything else into health and sustain.