Tide-Glass Beads - Shadowfen (Kilt lead)

Fhritz

Who make the drop percentage in this lead. EVERY SINGLE SPOT in Shadowfen are taken and it takes AN ETERNITY to drop the lead (5 hours straight, still nothing). I'm maybe unlucky, but a lot of people doesn't drop the lead for hours. Does anyone have such a hard time to drop this lead or ??

tmbrinks

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

Fhritz

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I know, but I'm not talking about this. for 5 hours straight, after hundreds of nodes harvested, the lead haven't dropped. It's FAR worse than pale order

ApoAlaia

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

It is also OK to show respect for people's time and discourage pathological behaviours.

Alas one doesn't need a degree in psychology to work out that forcing players to repeat a menial action over and over again with minuscule odds of achieving the goal does neither.

furiouslog

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I agree, but it does beg the question: how much time should a player have to invest in order to earn a particular set item? Like, what's the maximum?

Some of the systems in ESO are open ended in this regard. There are always people who get screwed by RNG (e.g. vMA staff). Other people get super lucky. At some point there should be a time cap on this stuff, or at least a more transparent communication of how things work under the hood so that people can wisely spend their time in game.

ZOS has done well in mitigating some of the issues in this regard, like implementing Undaunted keys as currency. As a fellow gear grinder (I know both of us are on the top 25 Armory leaderboard), I would think that you'd have an informed opinion on the subject - so what do you think? What's the acceptable time investment ceiling for a given drop?

For example, It's 5 keys for a shot at a shoulder piece. That's a VHM/VHM/N daily pledge run, which takes about 30-90 minutes, depending on the dungeons. Each coffer presumably has an equal chance to drop the items available in that coffer. If you're looking for a single item from the coffer, here are the probabilities.

Buying 1 coffer: 16.7%
Buying 6 coffers: 66.5%
Buying 12 coffers: 88.7%
Buying 24 coffers: 98.7% (13 people in 1000 will still not get what they want)
Buying 48 coffers: 99.98% (2 people in 1000 will still not get what they want)

Taking the average of 1 hour = 5 keys, 2 people in 1000 can spend 48 hours doing pledges and buying coffers, and still not get the missing item. Taken over the 15M players that ZOS claims to have on board, that means 30,000 players will be grinding for 48 hours or more to get that single piece. That seems like a lot of people to potentially inconvenience if they are missing a key piece of gear, and for some, it will be even longer than that. Extrapolate that to 12-14 pieces of equipped gear, and consider the fact that the undaunted shoulders are RNG-mitigated much more than other drops - the drop rate for the Medusa fire staff, for example. It can add up to a lot of time.

There should be some sort of mechanic to put a cap on that time investment. I'm all for rewards being a function of effort and talent, but sometimes the RNG (which, based on data I've collected, also do not at times appear to be truly random) can unfairly mess with "unlucky" individuals who play the game to the point where it ruins their experience, and due to ESO's large population, that is a pretty large number of people who suffer due to randomness.

Some players have suggested that a currency system be implemented for dungeon and arena drops. I think that's a pretty decent solution, without arguing specifics. For mythic leads, I have no idea what that would look like or how they would integrate it, but taking a look at the issue from the top level, it seems like 8 hours with no lead drop exceeds reasonable expectations for reward given effort. Most of the bosses that drop leads usually do it in less time than that (in my personal experience of course, there are probably 1000 people out there who would not agree).

Even as bad as this situation seems to be, at least it was not that one Pale Order lead that was sitting on a table in Nighthollow Keep. Whoever came up with that idea should have been fired. 10-20 people standing there spamming E for hours and dropping mystery meat and synergies to confound the competition was not my idea of an enjoyable gaming experience. It felt like we were being punished, somehow.

SamaelHQ

This drop rate is like a BIG JOKE. I have been sitting in front of a node for 8 hours and still didn't get it. There are people who already passed 15+ hours. We need more nodes or a higher drop rate otherwise this will turn into a nightmare.

P.S. Don't start with the "You don't have to get every item" nonsense.

insignismemoria

Do nodes in Arx count as Shadowfen? That would be ideal, since it's instanced and relatively easy to solo on norm. This madness could then be avoided, or at least reduced.

Jules

Agreed the drop rate is ridiculous. My friend has sat here for the last 9 hours without a single lead drop. Every node is camped by someone in the entire zone - absolutely terrible gameplay.

B0SSzombie

insignismemoria wrote: »

Do nodes in Arx count as Shadowfen? That would be ideal, since it's instanced and relatively easy to solo on norm. This madness could then be avoided, or at least reduced.

I was thinking that, but does Arx have any nodes besides fishing spots?

Septimus_Magna

What Im reading is that is has to be water plants, so nirnroot, water hyacinth etc. Maybe it can save you some time from farming all nodes and focus on water plants.

tmbrinks

ApoAlaia wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

It is also OK to show respect for people's time and discourage pathological behaviours.

Alas one doesn't need a degree in psychology to work out that forcing players to repeat a menial action over and over again with minuscule odds of achieving the goal does neither.

In a week or two you'll be able to run around Shadowfen like before, looting lots of nodes, and you'll get the drop much quicker. Right now, because everybody "has to have it" they're camping out at a single node and it's going to take longer.

It's a product of players wanting "all thing things" and wanting them immediately that's causing the problem.

I'm sure the drop rate is fine when you're farming and can get a node more than every 2 1/2 minutes.

I re-iterate, it's okay that not everybody has gotten the brand-new MYTHIC item within 24 hours of the release of the item.

Yes, I'll go get it. I'll farm for it 3 times because I like to finish the entire codex. But that's a "me" thing, and I'm not blaming anybody else for my time spent other than me. The lack of the kilt isn't going to prevent anybody from clearing any of the content in the game. (Now, if you want to talk about being a score-pushing, first in the world to complete the trifecta in Rockgrove type of group, then yes, it might, but that is a minuscule part of the population, and should not be the basis of any argument)

furiouslog

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

What Im reading is that is has to be water plants, so nirnroot, water hyacinth etc. Maybe it can save you some time from farming all nodes and focus on water plants.

The issue is that everyone already knows that. Right now in Shadowfen, the entire map is literally filled with people just standing at nodes, waiting for them to spawn over and over and hitting E as soon as they show up. Because they are camped, sometimes by more than one person, for hours at a time, it's becoming a source of resentment and conflict, not to mention boredom. I went in to check it out and found only one unattended water node of any kind on the entire map.

I want to get this set eventually, but really it just looks like gear for bow gankers or to cheese a parse anyway, so I can wait on it. For anyone who cares though, this has got to be frustrating. It's a bottleneck.

ApoAlaia

tmbrinks wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

It is also OK to show respect for people's time and discourage pathological behaviours.

Alas one doesn't need a degree in psychology to work out that forcing players to repeat a menial action over and over again with minuscule odds of achieving the goal does neither.

In a week or two you'll be able to run around Shadowfen like before, looting lots of nodes, and you'll get the drop much quicker. Right now, because everybody "has to have it" they're camping out at a single node and it's going to take longer.

It's a product of players wanting "all thing things" and wanting them immediately that's causing the problem.

I'm sure the drop rate is fine when you're farming and can get a node more than every 2 1/2 minutes.

I re-iterate, it's okay that not everybody has gotten the brand-new MYTHIC item within 24 hours of the release of the item.

Yes, I'll go get it. I'll farm for it 3 times because I like to finish the entire codex. But that's a "me" thing, and I'm not blaming anybody else for my time spent other than me. The lack of the kilt isn't going to prevent anybody from clearing any of the content in the game. (Now, if you want to talk about being a score-pushing, first in the world to complete the trifecta in Rockgrove type of group, then yes, it might, but that is a minuscule part of the population, and should not be the basis of any argument)

The 'grind' is exactly the same today as it will be 1 second before the servers shut down for good therefore there is no scenario here where 'fine' applies. Not for me anyway.

Running around picking water nodes for hours on end does not fit my definition of fine, not by a long stretch. I can't even tell myself 'well is like a farming run' because the only additional thing that can drop is Aetherial Dust, and in almost five years I have looted a grand total of five of those.

I had to quit searching for leads for the Markarth pet because is mind numbing, and I had the whole Bthar-Zel pretty much to myself for three hours on one occasion. I walked out without a single lead and there are seven to collect. I have no reason to believe this will be any different. Even if I had the entire zone to myself. is just Bad Man Hallows all over again.

If these scenarios fit your definition of fine that's great alas they do not fit mine.

CleymenZero

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I mean, there's an amount of time spent farming a mythic that should be considered reasonable especially if all the other stuff took 3-5 hours and this one takes 12.

monkey36948

It's insane right now my friends and i grouped up to fight the boredom we had at least 30/35h between all of us before someone got a lead 1 person out of 5/6 got it within 30/35h of grinding...

monkey36948

there's probably another 10/15h between them again now with no one else having gotten it yet

tmbrinks

CleymenZero wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I mean, there's an amount of time spent farming a mythic that should be considered reasonable especially if all the other stuff took 3-5 hours and this one takes 12.

It's like this every patch with every new thing.

Everybody wants it right now. So everybody is farming it. So there's not enough nodes, not enough mobs, etc... People write dozens of threads, with hundreds of threads, on the forums complaining.

In a few weeks, when the hype is gone. The farm time goes to a reasonable time. And we rarely see any more threads on the topic.

Whatever, guess I take a big picture look at stuff, rather than immediate gratification. To each their own.

ApoAlaia

tmbrinks wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I mean, there's an amount of time spent farming a mythic that should be considered reasonable especially if all the other stuff took 3-5 hours and this one takes 12.

It's like this every patch with every new thing.

Everybody wants it right now. So everybody is farming it. So there's not enough nodes, not enough mobs, etc... People write dozens of threads, with hundreds of threads, on the forums complaining.

In a few weeks, when the hype is gone. The farm time goes to a reasonable time. And we rarely see any more threads on the topic.

Whatever, guess I take a big picture look at stuff, rather than immediate gratification. To each their own.

There is immediate gratification and there is altering my schedule to be able to farm BMH for two hours before going to work for 5 consecutive days for a single lead.

There is immediate gratification and there is farming Bthar-Zel for 6+ hours on different session with no lead and no indication on how much longer is going to take. It could be 1 second or 100 hours.

If portraying yourself as a 'big picture guy' makes you feel good excellent, I mean it.

There is joy to be found in delayed gratification too.

However wishing to know how long is going to take to fulfill an objective is not as objectionable a wish as you make it out to be. And enjoying pulling the metaphorical slot machine arm is not as wholesome as you portray it either.

hexnotic

i saw this post, and went to go check it out. somehow i got the lead to drop in the first 20 mins??? good luck guys.

Shewolf075

I wonder if anyone creating these tasks ever think to themselves, is this fun gameplay?
Seems these Mythic sets need new and exciting ways to obtain them rather than having players mindless farm for riddled RNG drops. Be more creative. Have puzzles or kill certain foes in some order or some secret excavation in old delves.

Edited: Spelling

tmbrinks

ApoAlaia wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I mean, there's an amount of time spent farming a mythic that should be considered reasonable especially if all the other stuff took 3-5 hours and this one takes 12.

It's like this every patch with every new thing.

Everybody wants it right now. So everybody is farming it. So there's not enough nodes, not enough mobs, etc... People write dozens of threads, with hundreds of comments, on the forums complaining.

In a few weeks, when the hype is gone. The farm time goes to a reasonable time. And we rarely see any more threads on the topic.

Whatever, guess I take a big picture look at stuff, rather than immediate gratification. To each their own.

There is immediate gratification and there is altering my schedule to be able to farm BMH for two hours before going to work for 5 consecutive days for a single lead.

There is immediate gratification and there is farming Bthar-Zel for 6+ hours on different session with no lead and no indication on how much longer is going to take. It could be 1 second or 100 hours.

If portraying yourself as a 'big picture guy' makes you feel good excellent, I mean it.

There is joy to be found in delayed gratification too.

However wishing to know how long is going to take to fulfill an objective is not as objectionable a wish as you make it out to be. And enjoying pulling the metaphorical slot machine arm is not as wholesome as you portray it either.

I don't know what to say. You can give me 2 examples of where you've been unlucky with drops, but what about all the times you got stuff right away? The game would be boring beyond all belief if I knew exactly how long it would take to get a drop as you're suggesting.

Everything is a choice as to what's important, you get to decide that for yourself if it's important enough to do.

...and since I know nothing I say will change anybody's mind on any topic here, it is the internet after all, no sense in continuing.

furiouslog

tmbrinks wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I mean, there's an amount of time spent farming a mythic that should be considered reasonable especially if all the other stuff took 3-5 hours and this one takes 12.

It's like this every patch with every new thing.

Everybody wants it right now. So everybody is farming it. So there's not enough nodes, not enough mobs, etc... People write dozens of threads, with hundreds of threads, on the forums complaining.

In a few weeks, when the hype is gone. The farm time goes to a reasonable time. And we rarely see any more threads on the topic.

Whatever, guess I take a big picture look at stuff, rather than immediate gratification. To each their own.

The big motivator is getting it now is to have it for a little while before it gets nerfed. Everyone knows it will get nerfed. This is one of ZOS’s more sadistic actions. In a month when the stats are halved no one will care.

I put 6 hours in sitting at the same node. It’s not at all fun. At all. I recorded 30 minutes for our YouTube channel so that newbs can experience the riveting gameplay of the new chapter through my eyes. It’s a rollercoaster.

dcmgti

Im 14 hours into farming the last lead....the Shadowfen one. Definitely seems like maybe some of this could have been prevented. Maybe not.

ApoAlaia

tmbrinks wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Even as somebody who "wants all the things"... it's okay that everybody doesn't have the newest things within 24 hours of them being released.

I mean, there's an amount of time spent farming a mythic that should be considered reasonable especially if all the other stuff took 3-5 hours and this one takes 12.

It's like this every patch with every new thing.

Everybody wants it right now. So everybody is farming it. So there's not enough nodes, not enough mobs, etc... People write dozens of threads, with hundreds of comments, on the forums complaining.

In a few weeks, when the hype is gone. The farm time goes to a reasonable time. And we rarely see any more threads on the topic.

Whatever, guess I take a big picture look at stuff, rather than immediate gratification. To each their own.

There is immediate gratification and there is altering my schedule to be able to farm BMH for two hours before going to work for 5 consecutive days for a single lead.

There is immediate gratification and there is farming Bthar-Zel for 6+ hours on different session with no lead and no indication on how much longer is going to take. It could be 1 second or 100 hours.

If portraying yourself as a 'big picture guy' makes you feel good excellent, I mean it.

There is joy to be found in delayed gratification too.

However wishing to know how long is going to take to fulfill an objective is not as objectionable a wish as you make it out to be. And enjoying pulling the metaphorical slot machine arm is not as wholesome as you portray it either.

I don't know what to say. You can give me 2 examples of where you've been unlucky with drops, but what about all the times you got stuff right away? The game would be boring beyond all belief if I knew exactly how long it would take to get a drop as you're suggesting.

Everything is a choice as to what's important, you get to decide that for yourself if it's important enough to do.

...and since I know nothing I say will change anybody's mind on any topic here, it is the internet after all, no sense in continuing.

I gave you two examples, not THE two examples.

Arguably among the most egregious but certainly not the only examples.

However you are correct, you will not change my mind. Neither will I yours.

'Boring' and 'fun' are subjective therefore it is going to be a rather tall order to convince me that your flavour of fun is as righteous as my wish for a tastier fun is wicked, damned be the demons of certainty.

I have tried your fun believe me and found it... lacking.

UntilValhalla13

Shewolf075 wrote: »

I wonder if anyone creating these tasks ever think to themselves, is this fun gameplay?
Seems these Mythic sets need new and exciting ways to obtain them rather than having players mindless farm for riddled RNG drops. Be more creative. Have puzzles or kill certain foes in some order or some secret excavation in old delves.

Edited: Spelling

The spreadsheet doesn't allow fun.

ZOS_Ragnar

Hey folks,

In order to consolidate the discussion on this topic, we have closed this thread and are encouraging users to continue the conversation in this other thread located here.

Thank you for your understanding.