Vateshraan OR Maelstrom Destro staff

Amorpho

Clearly in a group, a VMA destro staff is much better than Vateshraan since you won't slot Elemental Drain. But what about a solo situation or solo arenas where
Elemental Drain is mandatory? I get the feeling that a Vateshraan destro will pump more dps especially in situations where the boss is mobile (moving away from Elemental Blockade) and/or is surrounded by ads (like the last boss of Vateshraan arena). Has anyone done any testing?

Lephrel

Amorpho wrote: »

Clearly in a group, a VMA destro staff is much better than Vateshraan since you won't slot Elemental Drain. But what about a solo situation or solo arenas where
Elemental Drain is mandatory? I get the feeling that a Vateshraan destro will pump more dps especially in situations where the boss is mobile (moving away from Elemental Blockade) and/or is surrounded by ads (like the last boss of Vateshraan arena). Has anyone done any testing?

I don't have the exact numbers, but I am fairly certain that vMA destro gives a similar amount of dps. Regardless, you won't cast breach on non-boss enemies in arenas anyways, so I don't think it's worth slotting the Vateshran destro.

BalticBlues

On backbar, VMA destro is the best choice for DDs.
On frontbar, DDs use a 5-piece-set Vateshraan destro cannot replace.

Where I like Vateshraan destro is frontbar on my healer in Dungeons (not Trials).
My healer can reach quite good DPS with it.

Amorpho

Lephrel wrote: »

Amorpho wrote: »

Clearly in a group, a VMA destro staff is much better than Vateshraan since you won't slot Elemental Drain. But what about a solo situation or solo arenas where
Elemental Drain is mandatory? I get the feeling that a Vateshraan destro will pump more dps especially in situations where the boss is mobile (moving away from Elemental Blockade) and/or is surrounded by ads (like the last boss of Vateshraan arena). Has anyone done any testing?

I don't have the exact numbers, but I am fairly certain that vMA destro gives a similar amount of dps. Regardless, you won't cast breach on non-boss enemies in arenas anyways, so I don't think it's worth slotting the Vateshran destro.

In arenas, you would cast it on the boss and then align the beam to hit ads 😉 💪

BalticBlues

Amorpho wrote: »

In arenas, you would cast it on the boss and then align the beam to hit ads 😉 💪

And? In boss situations without adds you only gain a meagre 2k DPS - this does not help much. Moreover, in vet arena situations with adds you often have more important priorities instead of positioning yourself correctly for the Vateshran destro. Especially your example of the last Vateshraan boss requires positioning for portals, flame-mage-interrupting and sigils (on last phase). To be honest, I do not think the Vateshran destro makes so much sense there. At least not for me. However, perhaps you are better handling many priorities at the same time than I am.

Naftal

You'll want wall of elements just to proc your backbar glyph.

Asardes

Next patch Vatershran, just like every other proc sets will have its damage scale on spell damage, so it will be lower than now, but vMA buffs your light and heavy attack damage regardless of your stats, so it's clearly better.

NupidStoob

This is quite simple to figure out so I am not sure why people are giving straight up wrong answers here.

- Maelstrom is single target and you need to be weaving perfectly to get the full benefit which let's be frank just isn't the case for the majority of the players.

- Maelstrom gives you like 1.5k damage per LA, whereas Vateshran gives you 2k per second and can hit multiple targets.

- You can easily slot both Wall of Elements and Ele drain (you definitely should never drop wall).


So it's quite obvious that Vateshran is just straight up more DPS, however it's another discussion whether it's better for arenas or not. Often enough wasting a GCD to cast ele drain on adds that die really fast anyways isn't worth it. It's also perfectly fine to sustain without ele drain in a majority of the situations thanks to destro staff passives and CP. Depends on class, build, food and arena as well of course.

In arenas it's actually pretty simple to just look at how many GCDs you need to kill X target and what you notice then quickly is that neither maelstrom nor vateshran staff will make much of a difference. Using neither would just result in a few more casts per boss and hardly any on most trashmobs.

Personally I would suggest to use maelstrom staff as it's more universal. It will be useful on every single pull and the bonus you get from vateshran on longer fights is so tiny it won't be noticeable.

BalticBlues

NupidStoob wrote: »

- Maelstrom is single target and you need to be weaving perfectly to get the full benefit.

- Maelstrom gives you like 1.5k damage per LA, whereas Vateshran gives you 2k per second and can hit multiple targets.

So it's quite obvious that Vateshran is just straight up more DPS

Hmm, indeed. Perhaps I was wrong and I should give this a try.

Instead of
a backbar VMA destro for wall of elements glyph proc and LA/HA 1.5k/s bonus,
a backbar Vatheshran destro for wall of elements glyph proc and 2k/s multiple bonus.

Of course casting ele drain on the heaviest target becomes mandatory then,
but I am already doing this in arenas anyway.

Thanks for giving me something to think about.

Marcus_Aurelius

Can the added damage from Maelstrom crit or not?
I know proc sets usually do't crit, but for Maelstrom when the damage is added? Before of after the crit calculation of the light attack?

Asardes

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Can the added damage from Maelstrom crit or not?
I know proc sets usually do't crit, but for Maelstrom when the damage is added? Before of after the crit calculation of the light attack?

Maelstrom special effect doesn't do damage itself, but light and heavy attacks can crit, just like any other player skill. In fact with various passives, CP, Minor/Major Force, class or racial passives this makes the extra damage even more powerful.

Amorpho

NupidStoob wrote: »

This is quite simple to figure out so I am not sure why people are giving straight up wrong answers here.

- Maelstrom is single target and you need to be weaving perfectly to get the full benefit which let's be frank just isn't the case for the majority of the players.

- Maelstrom gives you like 1.5k damage per LA, whereas Vateshran gives you 2k per second and can hit multiple targets.

- You can easily slot both Wall of Elements and Ele drain (you definitely should never drop wall).

There you go! That's exactly what I was talking about and the reasoning behind my suspicion that in a solo context Vateshraan would work better than Maelstrom. I will definitely swop it on my next run and see if it feels as good as I think it will!

Xuhora

why not both? I mean procsets (including monstersets) will take a big hit next patch. Why not go for 5/5/1/1 with MA backbar for wall and VH frontbar for eledrain on high prio targets?
could be that the bonus DPS from Vate is bigger than the monsterset (or 2 times crit 1piece bonus) Maybe you should test that as well?

Amorpho

Xuhora wrote: »

why not both? I mean procsets (including monstersets) will take a big hit next patch. Why not go for 5/5/1/1 with MA backbar for wall and VH frontbar for eledrain on high prio targets?
could be that the bonus DPS from Vate is bigger than the monsterset (or 2 times crit 1piece bonus) Maybe you should test that as well?

That couldn't work if you are running Ring of Pale Order. Also, there are a number of sets that are super strong on certain classes - like Zaan and Maw of the Infernal

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Xuhora wrote: »

why not both? I mean procsets (including monstersets) will take a big hit next patch. Why not go for 5/5/1/1 with MA backbar for wall and VH frontbar for eledrain on high prio targets?
could be that the bonus DPS from Vate is bigger than the monsterset (or 2 times crit 1piece bonus) Maybe you should test that as well?

If damage is the goal, you will likely be wearing a kilt next patch or when solo, people will likley still run pale order a lot of the time. Not saying you couldn't run both, but guessing it will not be optimal.

To the OP: The reality is that VMA staff is a meta PVE DPS weapon, and Vateshran staff is a pressure set for PVP. But hey, give it a go and let us know what you find.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Can the added damage from Maelstrom crit or not?
I know proc sets usually do't crit, but for Maelstrom when the damage is added? Before of after the crit calculation of the light attack?

The msa bonus damage is added at the beginning of the calculation. So e.g.:
normal light attack: 3k
msa light attack: 3k+1.5k=4.5k
normal crit: 3k*2=6k
msa crit: (3k+1.5k)*2=9k
So as a result, if your crit chance and damage are high enough, msa staff will be better than vateshran staff.

BalticBlues

NupidStoob wrote: »

- Maelstrom is single target and you need to be weaving perfectly to get the full benefit.

- Maelstrom gives you like 1.5k damage per LA, whereas Vateshran gives you 2k per second and can hit multiple targets.

So it's quite obvious that Vateshran is just straight up more DPS

BalticBlues wrote: »

Hmm, indeed. Perhaps I was wrong and I should give this a try.

Instead of
a backbar MSA destro for wall of elements glyph proc and LA/HA 1.5k/s bonus,
a backbar Vatheshran destro for wall of elements glyph proc and 2k/s multiple bonus.

Of course casting ele drain on the heaviest target becomes mandatory then,
but I am already doing this in arenas anyway.

Ok, I ran the test in vet Vateshran, using Vathesran desto backbar instead of MSA desto backbar. I had a blast. Whenever there are mobs around a heavy target, the difference is noticable. Moreover, I like the tether optimizing gameplay. It is more work and more fun at the same time.

HOWEVER

Against a solo boss I did not notice much difference. This probably is because the MSA LA/HA bonus can crit and this way is even a bit better than the raw output of the Vateshran bonus against a single target.

Asardes wrote: »

Next patch Vatershran, just like every other proc sets will have its damage scale on spell damage, so it will be lower than now, but vMA buffs your light and heavy attack damage regardless of your stats, so it's clearly better.

ZOS wrote:

Update 30: Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values

INDEED - UPDATE 30 WILL DESTOY MOST PVE MAG PROG SETS.
Even though my PvE Sorc has lovely crit, he only has 3xxx spell damage.
With -50% proc damage bonus, the Vateshran Destro will lose against the MSA Destro.

So use it as long as it's hot. VMA and VV will never be so easy and so much fun again.
Update 30 will kill HALF of our CP bonuses, HALF of our damage procs and HALF of our fun.