Magicka inferior to stamina

Viewsfrom6ix

Can we please talk about it with regards to PvP?

Currently almost every one runs stam builds in PvP. Every class' stam variation is superior to their mag one except for sorc because they can shield spam and streak.

So why does medium armor have no penalties and light armor take more physical damage when it already has the lowest armor rating?

Also why are the proc sets SD/WD scaling the same? Stam builds naturally gain more WD from weapon and Med armor passives.

There are other reasons like a lack of execute for mag but I'll let that slide.

PvP is getting stale when everyone is running the same stam builds. Because if you choose to play anything else barring magsorc, you're putting a handicap on yourself.

RedFireDisco

Everything you've said is factual

Why does light armour have penalties when it already takes more damage?

Magcro is hot garbage but they're nerfing boneyard in the next patch because who knows why

Stam hits harder but is more survivalist

Just roll a sorc...

OlumoGarbag

Well magicka is better in groups. I think that's zenimaxs Vision of balance. Stam has nearly 0 group healing or support, while a group of 4 magicka 1 stam player will always outheal a 5 Stam player group and eventually win.

Athan1

Stamina is stronger in pvp
Magicka is stronger in pve
It's called balance

Jackey

Athan1 wrote: »

Stamina is stronger in pvp
Magicka is stronger in pve
It's called balance

They might call it that but it really is not.
Balance would be if both mag and stam were equally powerful in both pvp and pve.
(Just pointing it out, I don't necessarily agree with it)

But I agree that the increased martial damage should be removed from light armor.

BalticBlues

Has PvP balancing EVER been worse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2aILHfJvMo

Integral1900

Once the next patch comes in it will definitely be stamina, you will slot that two-handed charge skill, medium armour and use the passive that comes with it to stack weapon damage to the moon, then choose any damage dealing monster/proc set you feel like and watch enemies vaporise. 🤨

Meanwhile over in PVE land.... (Queue the 1960s Batman scene change)
The the changes will have little to no affect on the 0.01% of elite players, but it has managed to hamstring pretty much every fluffy/hybrid/fun/entertaining build in existence. All in all, business as usual. 😐

On the plus side, unless you are one of the 0.01% there is now absolutely no reason to have to do dungeons because most of the stuff in there has been nobbled 😆😆😆😆😆😆

Well done team 😁🤓😁🧐🤪

Pauwer

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Well magicka is better in groups. I think that's zenimaxs Vision of balance. Stam has nearly 0 group healing or support, while a group of 4 magicka 1 stam player will always outheal a 5 Stam player group and eventually win.

Yes, this is true. For soloplay i'm always stam, but premade groups usually require mag toons. I think it is the general idea of the game atm in pvp.

Viewsfrom6ix

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Well magicka is better in groups. I think that's zenimaxs Vision of balance. Stam has nearly 0 group healing or support, while a group of 4 magicka 1 stam player will always outheal a 5 Stam player group and eventually win.

I agree to a certain point but it sounds like in order to be balanced - magicka builds NEED to support. But it still doesn't address the problem that magicka take more damage and deal less damage with procs. Magicka need to sacrifice damage to have the same survivability as stamina and sacrifice survivability to have the same damage as stamina. Also playing as a DD is more fun than a support. why take that away from magicka classes?

Hawco10

Movement takes stam. Rolling takes stam. Why anyone would wonder why stam works better in PVP really needs to learn the fundamentals of PVP and learn what your class/race can and can’t do. It’s really that simple.

Alurria

I agree, I play magden, I get totally destroyed in pvp maybe I'm just bad (I am) but I can't touch the health of some of these stam builds, except for Fletcher infection. It gets purged but it does pen. As soon as I cast that they close the gap or stun me I can't get away I'm squishy. I'm a glass cannon in pve too but at least in group trial we have healers. Many times in Cyrodil I am not in a group or no groups are formed. Now with group changes coming I will be lucky to get a group at all. PVP is a mess with dynamics. I like faction fighting but I feel next to useless for any team effort. I then just do siege because at least I can defend a castle and help my faction.

Stevie6

Stam is king in all content except for end game trials. My stamcro can easily hit 20k to 38k dps while my magsorc is scraping by at 8k dps sometimes 11k dps (overland and crafted gear). This is mainly doing solo in overland, world bosses, and up to and including vet1 and some dlc dungeons. Magsorc feels like a wet noodle. I ended up with making a really tanky magsorc the last month or so and it works ... a little slow..but works..lol.

The devs might want to revisit pre Morrowind Petsorc build...it had damage and shields. Now I solo with no shield..waste of time and magicka. If you die, you die. Just drive on.

Andre_Noir

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Well magicka is better in groups. I think that's zenimaxs Vision of balance. Stam has nearly 0 group healing or support, while a group of 4 magicka 1 stam player will always outheal a 5 Stam player group and eventually win.

1. Stam skills are cheaper then magicka
2. Stam scale better then magicka
3. Stam is the most mobile setup in game
4. Charges have no cooldown BUT the only way to deal with it for all magicka classes is the Flame Clench that has lower range and can't be spammed
5. Both restro and light armor defensive options aka shields and heals cut by half in pvp + p1 + p2
6. Execute. A lot of burst executes
7. CC on almost every stamina skill

etc
Just taking IC: charge with unleashed terror + Dawnbreaker + Slash bring any light armor user to a point where all healing is useless because execution on stamina abilities start works from 50% and can be spammed but resto heal start ramp only 30% below and it's HOT that doesn't pull out of execution range

zvavi

All hail sorc.

DTStormfox

The biggest complaint about this balance I have, is this one:

In my experience, it is much easier to have high stats on a stamina build than on a magicka build. I will retain to the Dragonknight class to illustrate my point because I have a lot of experience with this class.

For example, I can easily achieve 4-5k Weapon Damage, 30k Stamina, 30k Health, and 1800 Stamina recovery on my Stamina Dragonknight.

It is, in my experience, much harder to get the same stats for my Magicka Dragonknight without having to sacrifice either Health, Magicka, Spell Damage, or Magicka recovery.

Then there is also the point that the Stamina morphs of the Dragonknight abilities are much cheaper than the Magicka morphs. I understand that the Magicka morphs tend to be more powerful, however, in terms of gameplay, Stamina Dragonknight is much more forgiving and 'quicker' than Magicka Dragonknight. With quicker, I mean that in general, Stamina Dragonknight gameplay involves a lot of dodging, placing dots, spamming spammables. While on the Magicka Dragonknight, the gameplay involves slowly weathering down your enemy relying on strong combinations and dots.

Considering set item choices. I often found that for Stamina Dragonknight the variety of viable sets (i.e. combinations that work and are fun to play) is much greater than with Magicka Dragonknight. Especially in terms of proc sets that trigger a damage event. There are only a very select few item sets that proc a damage event for Magicka Dragonknight that actually work well in PvP, most item sets that are viable are sets that proc a buff event (e.g. buffing spell damage).

rbfrgsp

If you're using light armour why aren't you stacking shields?

Lephrel

rbfrgsp wrote: »

If you're using light armour why aren't you stacking shields?

You can only stack shields on sorc. The OP is talking about magicka classes in general.

Urzigurumash

RedFireDisco wrote: »

. I often found that for Stamina Dragonknight the variety of viable sets (i.e. combinations that work and are fun to play) is much greater than with Magicka Dragonknight.

I think the early days of DK (on Console) did a good job of perpetuating the RPG tradition that Warriors have access to a wide variety of gear, but not skills, and vice-versa for Mages.

Amottica

Jackey wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Stamina is stronger in pvp
Magicka is stronger in pve
It's called balance

They might call it that but it really is not.
Balance would be if both mag and stam were equally powerful in both pvp and pve.
(Just pointing it out, I don't necessarily agree with it)

But I agree that the increased martial damage should be removed from light armor.

With all the variables in this game, significantly more than most major MMORPGs, is it really possible to have balance so refined?

Kel

Remember when everyone thought Gilliam the Rogue was going to come in and balance combat?

Pepperidge farms remembers....

Nagastani

rbfrgsp wrote: »

If you're using light armour why aren't you stacking shields?

Exactly, was going to go there lol

You need to know how to play as Light Armor or Magicka user. I was kind of shocked when I read this as I have both seen and known many an AD/EP that was crazy powerful with a Staff. Like one or two shots and you're done, even in this no proc PvP.

Magicka can be very strong but u have to know what you're doing, you must understand how everything works. Got to have that 'secret fire'.

Urzigurumash

Nagastani wrote: »

Magicka can be very strong but u have to know what you're doing, you must understand how everything works. Got to have that 'secret fire'.

That's exactly how the "Mage" archetype should work, compared to the Warrior or the Thief. I know these old ideas of "classes" might not exactly work in MMOs.

Ceejengine

Ayyy PvE magdps meta is about to get hit hard

Athan1 wrote: »

Stamina is stronger in pvp
Magicka is stronger in pve
It's called balance

This is true but I'll bet you that PvE stam is gonna get nerfed into the ground now.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Totally agreed. Light armor / magicka based characters are close to a joke on PVP.

It's either the dumb armor buff / debuff that needs to be rolled back or deeply fixed for basic logic reasons that OP already stated or buff shields again to very substantial amounts.

This is the first time ever since launch or even beta that I get killed so fast, so often. I've even tried full defensive sets and still doesn't work. Going glass cannon builds doesn't work either and I can't get kills like I used to either, it's a bad trade whatever I try to do.