When was the last time you've been stunned by Arctic Blast?

Marcus_Aurelius

Seeing the continuous request to nerf Arctic blast (my warden pve tank thanks you) I thought of doing a little experiment, I decided for 20h hours of actual play in Cyro to write down how many times, always fighting in melee range, I was stunned by Arctic Blast.
To my surprise the total number of times I've been stunned by Arctic Blast is zero.
Now I'm really wondering if the people who always complain about this skill are doing so based on its tooltip or real game experience.

So , what's stunning you in Cyro?

fred4

Your character wouldn't be running the Slippery CP star, would they?

fred4

You may have a very good "I'm staying out of red" discipline. I've certainly been stunned, because I go in close to wardens on my melee characters out of necessity and, for that reason, have learned to gauge the potential harm of various AOE effects.

I have not followed nerf cries of this skill, but would have thought the main issue was the heal being too enabling of high-health wardens in PvP. The stun is something that I think many PvPers could take or leave. It hinders enemies and drains their stamina by regularly CCing, but many players prefer using stuns in a coordinated way as part of their burst combo instead.

Raeyleigh

I played a bg match yesterday, there was a warden on the enemy team (big surprise).

I died twice due to arctic blast stunning me in just the perfect moment in a big fight. And i dont die a lot.
I missed one kill due to arctic blast stunning me a milisecond before i could cast the final execute.
That was from a single warden in a single 10min match.

The skill is op not because of the stun but because its so loaded.
Stamdens profit a lot from the stun, as it works great defensivly, goes through block and dodge offensivly and they have dizzy and dawny for more convenient stuns already.
Magdens would gladly exchange the stun for a more controlled and convenient one.

Joy_Division

The stun is the least annoying aspect of the skill. Wardens will want to use the CC of dizzy or Dawnbreaker to set up a kill.

relentless_turnip

It's the heal that mainly overperforms which may be more due to warden passives. The stun is only annoying when you are trying to execute a warden. They are basically out healing your execute and then you get stunned and their health bar is back to 100%.

Grimlok_S

Right before I'm about to drop my burst -> execute, every single time.

INe_Saninus

I think people ignore the life saving potential of the cc.

When I get any player down to execute, they begin their "oh ****" rotation.
It's already hard to execute a good player in Cyrodiil due to lag, skill delay, and position desync.
When melee you have to stick to them like glue.
As they roll, block, block heal, or when ESO just randomly decides that my execute WILL NOT FIRE for no discernable reason.... it's quite easy to get cc'd with Artic Blast.

Which then makes it even more challenging to kill an already tanky, over healing opponent.

How you were able to avoid this is beyond me. Given that we have zero idea of your play style or skill level, your personal experience (while opinion confirming for you) seems less relevant to whether or not this skill is over loaded.

Clearly, it is.
It's quite possible that the healing nerf will be enough to bring it in line.
We'll see.

Wing

play more.

at least twice in one fight by nik.

it does not help that an overperforming heal has a CC effect tied to it.

when you get a warden low, and can try to start executing him, and hes just spamming heals and then BAM, YOU get CC'd for having the audacity to try and kill a warden, by the time you break free he is back at full health and hitting you.

imagine if you will that dragon blood, or breath of life, stunned an enemy,

yeah, its dumb.

Kaysha

every single time when I try to kill a warden. It´s as simple as that.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

The stun is the least annoying aspect of the skill. Wardens will want to use the CC of dizzy or Dawnbreaker to set up a kill.

I have to agree, it's not the arctic blast skill itself that's problem. It's the way it combines with a few other skills that make it op. Remove the stun and the skill will still work fine. You still get the healing and damage output and the main complaint in PvP is gone. Meanwhile in PvE, my experience is that usually nothing lives long enough against my Stamaden for the stun to matter anyway.

xylena_lazarow

relentless_turnip wrote: »

They are basically out healing your execute and then you get stunned and their health bar is back to 100%.

To be fair, this is a problem across PvP, way too easy for anyone to quickly heal from execute to full, makes your efforts and entire battles feel like a pointless waste of time. That said, ban warden and necro from PvP.

spotzhopz

When was the last time i was stunned by artic blast? Well since i havent really played today it wouldve been in the battleground i ran.

That said, I mean the stun is annoying but its more a combination of everything the skill does thats the problem. I play glass cannon mostly(which is a me problem admittedly) so any time one of my meelee characters get stunned its pretty much a death sentence anyway, but adding the heal into that just makes it to much. Not to mention that it also does damage on top of that. I just think its dumb that i can burst down most people running around with 40k pretty well when i dont mess up, but if someone heals to full in the split second im stunned then im dead. Especially with everything else warden has goin for it. Like someone else said earlier imagine if green dragon blood stunned while healing(hint: it probably still wouldnt be as broken as warden and necro)

Rhaegar75

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It's the heal that mainly overperforms which may be more due to warden passives. The stun is only annoying when you are trying to execute a warden. They are basically out healing your execute and then you get stunned and their health bar is back to 100%.

Basically this.

The skill is too useful and clearly overtuned especially in the hand of an overtuned class like warden....healing, stun and damage all in one skill!!!

And to answer the original question: sadly i actually need to get in melee range to hit other characters and the warden little artic dance has led to a stun or 2

ESO_Nightingale

it's really iritiating to try to use this to stun. but we don't have many actually good options as a magicka warden. the only other one that is close to viable is flame clench which knocks enemies away from our fissure or sometimes behind us for no reason, while also locking us out of weapon options. Blast is inconsistent stun and only good defensively which is annoying to fight against. what we needed was an offensive based stun that went to the enemy with a decent burst damage component on it, not a defensive based stun that also made us outheal everything when we stacked 40k hp. both AB2.0 and 3.0 missed the mark horribly on this. here's hoping to AB4.0 to get it right, droping the healing completely this time since we never needed a high healing HP based heal on our class stun for pvp.

Pauwer

I can stun a player on it sometimes when they focus on someone else and i can sort of just stick to them, when they are not actually fighting me. On other times, i find people are able to keep their distance. I can use it to stun npcs.

I dont think i have ever been stunned by it, at least i have not noticed.

Grimlok_S

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's really iritiating to try to use this to stun. but we don't have many actually good options as a magicka warden. the only other one that is close to viable is flame clench which knocks enemies away from our fissure or sometimes behind us for no reason, while also locking us out of weapon options. Blast is inconsistent stun and only good defensively which is annoying to fight against. what we needed was an offensive based stun that went to the enemy with a decent burst damage component on it, not a defensive based stun that also made us outheal everything when we stacked 40k hp. both AB2.0 and 3.0 missed the mark horribly on this. here's hoping to AB4.0 to get it right, droping the healing completely this time since we never needed a high healing HP based heal on our class stun for pvp.

I can see that for a ranged magden, but for stamden the combo is too smooth.

In a fight with any melee class you prebuff, debuff, arctic -> sub -> medium weave -> dizzy. Both your dizzy and sub are going to land right on the stun, then it's as easy as a followup DB/execute.

It breaks block if used offensively, and counters anyone trying to pressure you in melee.

Elusiin

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It's the heal that mainly overperforms which may be more due to warden passives. The stun is only annoying when you are trying to execute a warden. They are basically out healing your execute and then you get stunned and their health bar is back to 100%.

What..... If you're spamming a 2H sword dizzying swing and executioner, then you do not need to be talking about balance. That is broken, the damage and pressure you can exert is ridiculous. There should be spells that help magicka players get some relief from melee spammers.

Sorc -> streak/ball of lightning + defensive rune
warden -> artic wind
nightblade -> cloak + shadow image
dragon knight -> talon + petrify
necromancer -> totem + grasp
templar -> javelin

Only the templar have the weakest disengage/cc from my perspective, but it's made up for in their insane healing, especially the jabs which is an AoE damaging ability that also heals a lot... Like warden's healing is nothing compared to necromancer and templar, but the artic wind makes up for that giving them a brief moment to get off an extra heal or roll away from a melee spammer. Heck, even a DK can just cast leap to full heal (though their normal abilities are horrible and need addressed too).

If anything the warden class could use a buff as a lot of their abilities are weaker versions of other classes like ice fortress giving major resolve and minor protection... That's literally it, while the templar's focus rune gives % health over time, magicka restoration, and major resolve (yeah other classes have "overloaded" abilities too).

Grimlok_S

Elusiin wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It's the heal that mainly overperforms which may be more due to warden passives. The stun is only annoying when you are trying to execute a warden. They are basically out healing your execute and then you get stunned and their health bar is back to 100%.

Like warden's healing is nothing compared to necromancer and templar, but the artic wind makes up for that giving them a brief moment to get off an extra heal or roll away from a melee spammer. Heck, even a DK can just cast leap to full heal (though their normal abilities are horrible and need addressed too).

If anything the warden class could use a buff as a lot of their abilities are weaker versions of other classes like ice fortress giving major resolve and minor protection... That's literally it, while the templar's focus rune gives % health over time, magicka restoration, and major resolve (yeah other classes have "overloaded" abilities too).

Major mending was removed from Templar and given to Warden, FYI..

Templar's rune change will work for tanks in stationary PvE encounters - if you're standing still in PvP you're gonna be big dead quick biggly.

ResidentContrarian

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's really iritiating to try to use this to stun.

How, when one skill provides absolute defense on the class exactly when you would want or need it, when a melee player gets in range?

On a ranged build you can slot crystalized, and if you don't like rolling, simply slot SnB reflect ult and keep it on constantly thanks to crystalized.

Then simply use artic when players get close, and they all do, even sorcs have to get close to attempt to finish you off.

I have a warden (2 mag, 1 stam), wait three wardens, and it is the easiest skill in the game for me to use and makes PvP quite trivial.

I estimate PvP to be even more trivial on a mag warden with the return of proc sets. Wait, I don't estimate it, I know so...

Vaoh

Just make it an ice dps skill already. Here:

Arctic Blast
Envelop your target in winter winds, instantly dealing 2160 Frost Damage to them and nearby targets within 4 meters. The original target takes an additional 1434 Frost Damage every 1 second over 10 seconds.

Affected enemies take more damage from all Frost Damage attacks based on your offensive stats, with a maximum of 10% bonus damage taken.
...

The total damage is the same as Swarm (and other dots) but with the initial hit being AoE. Also serves as a frost debuff similar to what Engulfing Flames does.

Polar wind can stay the same. Easy.

Spurius_Lucilius

I would like an improved version of projectile Arctic Blast. Make it an offensive/support skill and get rid of the healing.

ESO_Nightingale

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's really iritiating to try to use this to stun.

How, when one skill provides absolute defense on the class exactly when you would want or need it, when a melee player gets in range?

On a ranged build you can slot crystalized, and if you don't like rolling, simply slot SnB reflect ult and keep it on constantly thanks to crystalized.

Then simply use artic when players get close, and they all do, even sorcs have to get close to attempt to finish you off.

I have a warden (2 mag, 1 stam), wait three wardens, and it is the easiest skill in the game for me to use and makes PvP quite trivial.

I estimate PvP to be even more trivial on a mag warden with the return of proc sets. Wait, I don't estimate it, I know so...

The stun is obnoxious to try and get working on a ranged build. "Just use crystallised shield"? That doesn't stun? Blast requires 3 ticks in melee range, that is very annoying to achieve since a lot can happen in those 3 seconds to stop it, it can also give enemies cc immunity for when i am trying to combo them with flame clench which is the only conceivable offensive stun option i have left even though it knocks enemies out of my fissure and restricts me to only be able to use a fire staff in order to have a "Reliable" stun. I have literally tried every stun but flame clench is the only one that can work.

I don't want an overtuned hp based healing defensive stun skill with some extra damage as an afterthought that gets people so mad they want the entire class deleted, the design works best for tanky hold your ground builds, which magicka warden never was, and for stamina warden which always plays in melee range, but stamina wardens have access to a ton of stuns and better skills magicka warden would kill for to have a magic variant of. On the class, We need an offensive ranged stun with a bursty magic scaling damage component on it and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

As permafrost, it served as an obnoxious but effective morph effect for locking down large groups because it had the range, but on blast it's purpose has changed. 6 meters is far shorter than permafrost and so it's effect is a lot more limited. Restricting it to melee and defensive melee applications strictly.

Lughlongarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's really iritiating to try to use this to stun.

How, when one skill provides absolute defense on the class exactly when you would want or need it, when a melee player gets in range?

On a ranged build you can slot crystalized, and if you don't like rolling, simply slot SnB reflect ult and keep it on constantly thanks to crystalized.

Then simply use artic when players get close, and they all do, even sorcs have to get close to attempt to finish you off.

I have a warden (2 mag, 1 stam), wait three wardens, and it is the easiest skill in the game for me to use and makes PvP quite trivial.

I estimate PvP to be even more trivial on a mag warden with the return of proc sets. Wait, I don't estimate it, I know so...

The stun is obnoxious to try and get working on a ranged build. "Just use crystallised shield"? That doesn't stun? Blast requires 3 ticks in melee range, that is very annoying to achieve since a lot can happen in those 3 seconds to stop it, it can also give enemies cc immunity for when i am trying to combo them with flame clench which is the only conceivable offensive stun option i have left even though it knocks enemies out of my fissure and restricts me to only be able to use a fire staff in order to have a "Reliable" stun. I have literally tried every stun but flame clench is the only one that can work.

I don't want an overtuned hp based healing defensive stun skill with some extra damage as an afterthought that gets people so mad they want the entire class deleted, the design works best for tanky hold your ground builds, which magicka warden never was, and for stamina warden which always plays in melee range, but stamina wardens have access to a ton of stuns and better skills magicka warden would kill for to have a magic variant of. On the class, We need an offensive ranged stun with a bursty magic scaling damage component on it and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

As permafrost, it served as an obnoxious but effective morph effect for locking down large groups because it had the range, but on blast it's purpose has changed. 6 meters is far shorter than permafrost and so it's effect is a lot more limited. Restricting it to melee and defensive melee applications strictly.

Like @Vaoh design, but 4 radius is extremely small. we also have to remember that taking both the healing and the CC from the Artic blast will result in the need of adding 2 additional skills to Warden's bar, one for CC and for healing. I dont think Warden' have room for 2 additional skills on top of Artic blast.

Changes to Artic blast should also include changes to:

-Living trellis - each time you recast this skill while active, during 3 sec duration, that burst healing effect increase by X% and cost also increase by X%.

-Bursting Vines - You can now target an enemy target, the vines will pull you to target, CC the target(cool entangled animation) and heal the caster(scales with Maicka+DS no ulti regen).

Togal

Its an instant heal, HOT and and a stun, whopping 3 different things in 1 skill so its defo OP. Glad their nerfing it.

ESO_Nightingale

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's really iritiating to try to use this to stun.

How, when one skill provides absolute defense on the class exactly when you would want or need it, when a melee player gets in range?

On a ranged build you can slot crystalized, and if you don't like rolling, simply slot SnB reflect ult and keep it on constantly thanks to crystalized.

Then simply use artic when players get close, and they all do, even sorcs have to get close to attempt to finish you off.

I have a warden (2 mag, 1 stam), wait three wardens, and it is the easiest skill in the game for me to use and makes PvP quite trivial.

I estimate PvP to be even more trivial on a mag warden with the return of proc sets. Wait, I don't estimate it, I know so...

The stun is obnoxious to try and get working on a ranged build. "Just use crystallised shield"? That doesn't stun? Blast requires 3 ticks in melee range, that is very annoying to achieve since a lot can happen in those 3 seconds to stop it, it can also give enemies cc immunity for when i am trying to combo them with flame clench which is the only conceivable offensive stun option i have left even though it knocks enemies out of my fissure and restricts me to only be able to use a fire staff in order to have a "Reliable" stun. I have literally tried every stun but flame clench is the only one that can work.

I don't want an overtuned hp based healing defensive stun skill with some extra damage as an afterthought that gets people so mad they want the entire class deleted, the design works best for tanky hold your ground builds, which magicka warden never was, and for stamina warden which always plays in melee range, but stamina wardens have access to a ton of stuns and better skills magicka warden would kill for to have a magic variant of. On the class, We need an offensive ranged stun with a bursty magic scaling damage component on it and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

As permafrost, it served as an obnoxious but effective morph effect for locking down large groups because it had the range, but on blast it's purpose has changed. 6 meters is far shorter than permafrost and so it's effect is a lot more limited. Restricting it to melee and defensive melee applications strictly.

Like @Vaoh design, but 4 radius is extremely small. we also have to remember that taking both the healing and the CC from the Artic blast will result in the need of adding 2 additional skills to Warden's bar, one for CC and for healing. I dont think Warden' have room for 2 additional skills on top of Artic blast.

Changes to Artic blast should also include changes to:

-Living trellis - each time you recast this skill while active, during 3 sec duration, that burst healing effect increase by X% and cost also increase by X%.

-Bursting Vines - You can now target an enemy target, the vines will pull you to target, CC the target(cool entangled animation) and heal the caster(scales with Maicka+DS no ulti regen).

For sure, trellis needs help. it needs at least a 50% buff to it's burst to be made into a viable solo heal once again, since we now have to rely on blessing of restoration, or the horrendous budding seed double cast in order to actually have a decent burst heal. we could use trellis in a pinch back before when healing wasn't nerfed across the board, and major mending was at 25%, which made out healing over time more powerful. but now due to the nerfs, things have changed and we could only rely on blast which was way too powerful since it was capable of reaching the same burst levels as templar and necromancer's main single target burst heals and even surpassing them. Our healing design in the past was that we had easy access to major mending, at the cost of weaker burst healing, and this would still be the case with a 50% trellis buff, since that boosts it to the same level as blessing of restoration. we also don't have shields anymore since they're far too weak, even tried to run the 60% cap annulment morph recently and it's performance was shocking even with high amounts of max magicka.

Goregrinder

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Seeing the continuous request to nerf Arctic blast (my warden pve tank thanks you) I thought of doing a little experiment, I decided for 20h hours of actual play in Cyro to write down how many times, always fighting in melee range, I was stunned by Arctic Blast.
To my surprise the total number of times I've been stunned by Arctic Blast is zero.
Now I'm really wondering if the people who always complain about this skill are doing so based on its tooltip or real game experience.

So , what's stunning you in Cyro?

It's one ability that did way too many things. It healed you, then threw a hot on you, then did AoE damage, then stunned anyone hit. That's 4 separate triggers off one button press. It's an OP ability and needed to be brought down.

Hexquisite

I stun people all the time with it, but lately I've been running polar wind instead for an emergency heal for friends.

monkiie

arctic blast is an incredibly unreliable stun because you need 3/5 ticks of it to hit in succession and in melee range for a stun. Anyone with the slightest amount of brain cells would learn how to play against it but everyone in this game would rather cry and complain for zenimax to nerf it. It was abused by stam wardens and now mag wardens suffer because of it.

Casul

I'm impressed people have the bar slots to use it. I always ran leeching vines + vigor personally