Serious question: What is ZOS' definition of baiting?

Rescorla_ESO

When I come to these forums it seems like almost every thread that has a response from a ZOS employee includes a message that comments were deleted due to violating the forum rule on baiting. The ZOS employee then provides a link to the Forums Rules which I will also provide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

The last section reads as follows:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

I know what trolling is and ZOS provides a clear definition of trolling in this section of the rules. There is no ZOS definition of what constitutes baiting. Is baiting a term 100% synonymous with trolling? In the bolded part above, baiting is listed as a form of trolling that is different from the other three listed (provoking conflict, inciting and mocking). If so when ZOS deletes comments why don't they just say the comments were deleted due to trolling which is a term everyone is familiar with and is clearly defined in the forum rules?

Ackwalan

It's just a catch all that is used to close posts.

ForeverJenn

You bait trolls. Like baiting a trap. Troll baiting. If you're baiting, you're inviting trolling. Trolling can be unprovoked, but baiting is opening the door intentionally.

Jeremy

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

When I come to these forums it seems like almost every thread that has a response from a ZOS employee includes a message that comments were deleted due to violating the forum rule on baiting. The ZOS employee then provides a link to the Forums Rules which I will also provide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

The last section reads as follows:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

I know what trolling is and ZOS provides a clear definition of trolling in this section of the rules. There is no ZOS definition of what constitutes baiting. Is baiting a term 100% synonymous with trolling? In the bolded part above, baiting is listed as a form of trolling that is different from the other three listed (provoking conflict, inciting and mocking). If so when ZOS deletes comments why don't they just say the comments were deleted due to trolling which is a term everyone is familiar with and is clearly defined in the forum rules?

All of it is subjective. To "bait" someone is to provoke someone. But what constitutes a provoke is entirely subjective. It all boils down to this: if they don't like what you say they are going to delete it. It's that simple. haha

So I wouldn't waste your time trying to define these terms or logically dissect them. It's pointless. Just try to be as nice and uncontroversial as possible. I usually edit my comments at least 3 times after typing them, sprinkling them with sugar and removing anything that might anger or annoy others. Might be a good idea to do the same.

colossalvoids

Let me just say it's pretty broad term in their usage, sometimes it's the most harmless sarcasm or a reply to actual baiting, it depends on a mod tbh.

anitajoneb17_ESO

The forum rules are, imho, pretty well done.
The ways they are understood, interpreted and enforced by moderators, however, are simply so inconsistent and senseless that it's quite equal to rolling the dice.
Even with the best communication skills, and the best intentions in the world, posting here puts you at risk of being accused of something you had no intention or no conscience of. It's pretty destabilizing, but that's how things are. Moderators are human, they do not belong to ZOS but to Bethesda, they moderate all Bethesda's forums, which means, other games, other communities with other cultural backgrounds. Also, the ESO community (like every game community, I guess) is very international, one word in one culture/language weighs differently from one culture to the next, and the mileage here is US culture, so we just adapt as best as we can, and sometimes we get into trouble in spite of it.
All in all, if you're genuine and respectful, you'll survive positively here and enjoy your time.

Veles

You also do not have the right to discuss actions of the administration, as well as rules established on this forum. Therefore, this topic will be closed soon ... for baiting

Pauwer

I dont know, but i feel like i have to edit myself all the time. Like on the other thread about vma perfected weps and lost exp with the new cp system and i all, im like, i wanna post "they should give us some lubricant to go with it" which i think it's funny, but then i think, is this offensive to someone, will they edit, will i get a warning again, and then i just don't reply at all. Would that be against some rules? I dunno. Maybe i should send a ticket. Oh, actually i once did! I asked if something is ok to post, but they just said i should report if i see offensive posts. Which was not at all what i asked. I asked if what i wanted to post was offensive. It's so confusing. Arrghhh *head explodes*

SilverBride

If you reply strictly to the subject you are probably safe. It's when your reply is directed at the poster that it gets into baiting.

Debate the topic, not the poster.

Jeremy

Pauwer wrote: »

I dont know, but i feel like i have to edit myself all the time. Like on the other thread about vma perfected weps and lost exp with the new cp system and i all, im like, i wanna post "they should give us some lubricant to go with it" which i think it's funny, but then i think, is this offensive to someone, will they edit, will i get a warning again, and then i just don't reply at all. Would that be against some rules? I dunno. Maybe i should send a ticket. Oh, actually i once did! I asked if something is ok to post, but they just said i should report if i see offensive posts. Which was not at all what i asked. I asked if what i wanted to post was offensive. It's so confusing. Arrghhh *head explodes*

Yeah it's best to steer away from the sexual innuendo. I learned that the hard way when I shared a story about the seafood gumbo when I used to work. lol

Pauwer

Jeremy wrote: »

Pauwer wrote: »

I dont know, but i feel like i have to edit myself all the time. Like on the other thread about vma perfected weps and lost exp with the new cp system and i all, im like, i wanna post "they should give us some lubricant to go with it" which i think it's funny, but then i think, is this offensive to someone, will they edit, will i get a warning again, and then i just don't reply at all. Would that be against some rules? I dunno. Maybe i should send a ticket. Oh, actually i once did! I asked if something is ok to post, but they just said i should report if i see offensive posts. Which was not at all what i asked. I asked if what i wanted to post was offensive. It's so confusing. Arrghhh *head explodes*

Yeah it's best to steer away from the sexual innuendo. I learned that the hard way when I shared a story about the seafood gumbo when I used to work. lol

but it is just meant to be funny, but i guess it's hard to make sure, that it's clear, like. So it is not meant to cause any harm. I have a very colorful style of writing and im a huge fan of stupid jokes.

amm7sb14_ESO

It's always the most interesting threads that end up with the guaranteed lock lol

Personally, I agree with some of the above. The criteria for "baiting" is undefined, and I have been edited and moderated when I wasn't baiting, while people who were taking shots at me were left unaddressed even after I reported it.

I post less here than I normally would because I have no desire for my innocent commentary to be moderated and deleted due to unclear rules.

Wolfpaw

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

When I come to these forums it seems like almost every thread that has a response from a ZOS employee includes a message that comments were deleted due to violating the forum rule on baiting. The ZOS employee then provides a link to the Forums Rules which I will also provide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

The last section reads as follows:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

I know what trolling is and ZOS provides a clear definition of trolling in this section of the rules. There is no ZOS definition of what constitutes baiting. Is baiting a term 100% synonymous with trolling? In the bolded part above, baiting is listed as a form of trolling that is different from the other three listed (provoking conflict, inciting and mocking). If so when ZOS deletes comments why don't they just say the comments were deleted due to trolling which is a term everyone is familiar with and is clearly defined in the forum rules?

I like your style.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NcVxWRFdmZc

amapola76

Pauwer wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Pauwer wrote: »

I dont know, but i feel like i have to edit myself all the time. Like on the other thread about vma perfected weps and lost exp with the new cp system and i all, im like, i wanna post "they should give us some lubricant to go with it" which i think it's funny, but then i think, is this offensive to someone, will they edit, will i get a warning again, and then i just don't reply at all. Would that be against some rules? I dunno. Maybe i should send a ticket. Oh, actually i once did! I asked if something is ok to post, but they just said i should report if i see offensive posts. Which was not at all what i asked. I asked if what i wanted to post was offensive. It's so confusing. Arrghhh *head explodes*

Yeah it's best to steer away from the sexual innuendo. I learned that the hard way when I shared a story about the seafood gumbo when I used to work. lol

but it is just meant to be funny, but i guess it's hard to make sure, that it's clear, like. So it is not meant to cause any harm. I have a very colorful style of writing and im a huge fan of stupid jokes.

The "joke" you used as an example isn't "sexual innuendo," it's an implied sexual assault joke in which you wanted to compare the new cp system to forced sex, and yeah, someone probably would have reported it. Who knows how it would have been handled, though. I'd even bet that my comment explaining this gets snipped, while the actual implied *** joke gets left intact.

For example, I recently told someone, "congratulations, have a cookie," and that got snipped for baiting, while I've seen blatantly, overtly racist stuff that never gets taken down even after being reported by several people. So, no, I don't think there's any consistent principle.

All you can do is all you can do anywhere: try to think through what you are saying and what it actually means, and don't intentionally say things that you know will be offensive.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

We have decided to close this thread as it is Discussing Disciplinary Actions, which is a violation of the Community Guidelines, and is stated as follows:

• Discussing Disciplinary Actions: If you ever have questions or concerns about a disciplinary action or decision we have made on the ESO forums, or wish to appeal a forum warning or infraction you’ve received, we ask that you please contact https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/ to do so (please specify that you are contacting about a forum-related inquiry or appeal). We are happy to discuss and review specific moderation-related actions with you, but we do not allow discussion of any moderation actions or decisions on our forums. If you have questions or concerns about an in-game disciplinary action, please contact https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/ to ask about a suspension or ban, and any other support-related feedback. We cannot assist with in-game violations on the forums.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understaning,
-Greg-