Flawed system: "The Others" are among us

Athan1

Having instanced zones is a flawed system. They should be separate channels. It's extremely creepy that all instances of a zone exist on literally the same map and as such invisible ghosts (other players) walk around us all the time.

Your friend is standing next to you but in a different instance so you just see a speech bubble floating in the air without any avatar below it.

You are interacting with a node but then it suddenly says "someone is using this" although you are alone, and then the node disappears.

Nodes disappear around you but there's no-one there.

Party member indicators floating in mid-air.

This is extremely creepy and bad design of a system. This is literally the theme of one of the most successful thrillers ever, the Others. Invisible ghosts interacting with your world but you can't interact with them. What is this mess? This is actually making me feel uncomfortable. Please fix this bad system and create zone channels.

Alurria

What? Um they are in a different instance so they can't interact with your instance. What are you taking about?

Tandor

No idea what this is about, what platform and server are you talking about?

Mythreindeer

I think you are on the wrong game forum.

fizl101

Are you in an an area where there is a quest where you can't see any other players maybe?

Eccentric_Vampire

I've seen nodes disappear too. I had just loaded in from another area though so I assumed it was that. I'm not sure what platform you're on, but since I play on Xbox myself, I'm wondering if it's a console thing.

Alurria

Maybe it's a console thing, I'm on PC so many of the problems console players face are not on PC which makes it's it difficult even within the community to communicate. Sometimes I read posts and wonder what world people are playing this game in. I just don't have the issues many people seem to have. I noticed my frame rate has increased lately so they are doing something good. My fps hovered at between 90 and 92 fps not it's upwards of 114 to 126 fps. So they are working on it. As far as the OP if you are in a different instance you are in a different instance one node doesn't appear in both. Chat bubbles I don't use those so never have I seen invisible people with chat bubbles. If your in a different instance you wouldn't know someone is standing next to you at a quest giver. So maybe it is a console problem.

carlos424

No, this is eso. I was recently helping my wife get her master angler achievement. On two separate occasions we got to points on the map where we could basically walk in and out of an instance. Her character would disappear off my screen and mine off hers. She would see a fishing hole where I would not. Traveling to each other did not fix it. All we had to do was walk a bit out of the area and magically reappear. I think it was just particular spots on the map. (Xbox)

Arunei

You all DO realize the game IS split into different instances, right? When one gets full a new one starts filling up. You guys can't tell me you've never gotten the notification that "so and so in your party is in another instance would you like to port to them" or gone to where one of your group mates is (in a non-quest-instanced location) to only see the Chevron?

That being said OP I have absolutely no idea how you find this creepy. It's just game design, and a necessary one. They can't shove all players into one instance because that starts causing a bunch of problems. As for the nodes vanishing, that's not because people in other instances are taking them; afaik every instance has its own copy of resources. What you're seeing is either lag or bots causing the node to vanish or be harvested before you get to it.

Solid_Metal

you mean channel as in like WoW server ?, with multiple server choices ?, afaik its instance as well

instance is the best for simplicity sake for the user, and also necessity, as for different instance problem, just simply group your friend, if the different instance still persist, just ask your friend to TP to you, it should've fix it

its not the problem of instance itself, more like implementation of it

Arunei

carlos424 wrote: »

No, this is eso. I was recently helping my wife get her master angler achievement. On two separate occasions we got to points on the map where we could basically walk in and out of an instance. Her character would disappear off my screen and mine off hers. She would see a fishing hole where I would not. Traveling to each other did not fix it. All we had to do was walk a bit out of the area and magically reappear. I think it was just particular spots on the map. (Xbox)

This is an example of quest instancing most likely. One of you had done a quest in those areas that the other hadn't, so you were split up so to speak.

VaranisArano

Instanced zones are a requirement so the server/client isn't overwhelmed with trying to send the info to and from every visible person. In other words, when you wayshrine into Mournhold, you get placed in an instance that doesn't include everyone because if there were only one instance with ALL the players in it, you'd be having the same problems that players in Cyrodiil do as their server/client connection struggles to render and transfer data on lots of players. ESO doesn't handle lots of players in the same place particularly well.

It does get a little funky with grouping, though. Assuming you aren't dealing with a specific quest, the solution that worked for me and my friend was to go to another zone, reform the group, then travel back to the zone so we ended up in the same instance.

ArchMikem

I don't believe a crafting mat node in your instance can be harvested by someone in another.

Alurria

Arunei wrote: »

You all DO realize the game IS split into different instances, right? When one gets full a new one starts filling up. You guys can't tell me you've never gotten the notification that "so and so in your party is in another instance would you like to port to them" or gone to where one of your group mates is (in a non-quest-instanced location) to only see the Chevron?

That being said OP I have absolutely no idea how you find this creepy. It's just game design, and a necessary one. They can't shove all players into one instance because that starts causing a bunch of problems. As for the nodes vanishing, that's not because people in other instances are taking them; afaik every instance has its own copy of resources. What you're seeing is either lag or bots causing the node to vanish or be harvested before you get to it.

You said this so much better than I could. That's why I was like what is he talking about. Some of the complaints were something I've never seen.

carlos424

Arunei wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

No, this is eso. I was recently helping my wife get her master angler achievement. On two separate occasions we got to points on the map where we could basically walk in and out of an instance. Her character would disappear off my screen and mine off hers. She would see a fishing hole where I would not. Traveling to each other did not fix it. All we had to do was walk a bit out of the area and magically reappear. I think it was just particular spots on the map. (Xbox)

This is an example of quest instancing most likely. One of you had done a quest in those areas that the other hadn't, so you were split up so to speak.

I guess this might be possible, although Ive never seen this happen before. One of the specific locations was in and around the southern part of Shadowfen, a place called Murkwater, represented by an anchor on the map. I was in a group with one other person, in case anyone wants to try and recreate it.

RedMuse

Eccentric_Vampire wrote: »

I've seen nodes disappear too. I had just loaded in from another area though so I assumed it was that. I'm not sure what platform you're on, but since I play on Xbox myself, I'm wondering if it's a console thing.

This is what nodes do when they've been half emptied. Then they despawn after a small amount of time. Nothing creepy about it, no player in another instance "stealing" it. Just a game mechanic.

@Eccentric_Vampire @Athan1

And frankly, instanced zones is the reason why everyone on one megaserver can play together. If they didn't do it this way they would be forced to drastically lower the population on a server and make a lot more servers in turn. Which would mean a whole lot fewer people to play with. Personally I prefer it this way.

Malkiv

Athan1 wrote: »

Having instanced zones is a flawed system. They should be separate channels. It's extremely creepy that all instances of a zone exist on literally the same map and as such invisible ghosts (other players) walk around us all the time.

Your friend is standing next to you but in a different instance so you just see a speech bubble floating in the air without any avatar below it.

You are interacting with a node but then it suddenly says "someone is using this" although you are alone, and then the node disappears.

Nodes disappear around you but there's no-one there.

Party member indicators floating in mid-air.

Yeah, this happened because the both of you were in different quest progress instances. You have completed the quest, and others have not, or vice-versa. You would notice this does not happen if you log into a toon that has not completed this quest. This kind of local area instancing is done so an area in a zone can change in appearance or NPC population without sealing it behind a door. There's very few of these area instancing mechanics in the game - you just happened to pick one to fish in.

scorpius2k1

Fwiw, my only gripe about instancing is friends, and especially groups. Sure, "just port" and what not, but that's the "solution" only because that's what we are attuned to doing in ESO as normal. Had this type of instancing been implemented, dare I say, properly, it would be the norm. Why the server doesn't always phase you in the same public zone instance (overland, dungeon, etc) as your friends/group, but instead randomly phased into the same or different instance is a bit odd to me. It seems to be implemented properly and widely on other MMO's, I don't see why ESO doesn't do it as well. The global phasing would only need to happen when you are in the same zone as others on your friends/group list, and even more fine-tuned, only when in the same area. It may seem insignificant to some but for me it would be a huge QoL feature and imho make the gameplay a lot more seamless and immersive.
.

Starlight_Whisper

Alurria wrote: »

What? Um they are in a different instance so they can't interact with your instance. What are you taking about?

Paranoia

Starlight_Whisper

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Fwiw, my only gripe about instancing is friends, and especially groups. Sure, "just port" and what not, but that's the "solution" only because that's what we are attuned to doing in ESO as normal. Had this type of instancing been implemented, dare I say, properly, it would be the norm. Why the server doesn't always phase you in the same public zone instance (overland, dungeon, etc) as your friends/group, but instead randomly phased into the same or different instance is a bit odd to me. It seems to be implemented properly and widely on other MMO's, I don't see why ESO doesn't do it as well. The global phasing would only need to happen when you are in the same zone as others on your friends/group list, and even more fine-tuned, only when in the same area. It may seem insignificant to some but for me it would be a huge QoL feature and imho make the gameplay a lot more seamless and immersive.
.

I usually does or should

RedMuse

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Fwiw, my only gripe about instancing is friends, and especially groups. Sure, "just port" and what not, but that's the "solution" only because that's what we are attuned to doing in ESO as normal. Had this type of instancing been implemented, dare I say, properly, it would be the norm. Why the server doesn't always phase you in the same public zone instance (overland, dungeon, etc) as your friends/group, but instead randomly phased into the same or different instance is a bit odd to me. It seems to be implemented properly and widely on other MMO's, I don't see why ESO doesn't do it as well. The global phasing would only need to happen when you are in the same zone as others on your friends/group list, and even more fine-tuned, only when in the same area. It may seem insignificant to some but for me it would be a huge QoL feature and imho make the gameplay a lot more seamless and immersive.
.

This probably happens because the instance most of you ported into was filled (possibly with your arrival) leaving no room for one or more of your group mates. And it is very hard to take that into account because most algorithms doing this will put you in the "closest to filled but can take your whole group" instance, but as other players are arriving too that instance might reach max while some of you are porting in, so they have to be put into another instance.

The only thing that bothers me about the instancing is that we have no deliberate choice in which instance we're put in. Like unless I port to a friend in another instance then I can't swap instances. Other games which have this instanced setup allows this, such as STO, NWO and SWTOR. That's what is really needed imo.

Starlight_Whisper

Eccentric_Vampire wrote: »

I've seen nodes disappear too. I had just loaded in from another area though so I assumed it was that. I'm not sure what platform you're on, but since I play on Xbox myself, I'm wondering if it's a console thing.

Scrolling upwards there does seem to be something going on maybe with console though

TheImperfect

What if the real world is like this? Maybe this explains all the interdimensional stories. I have seen resource nodes just vanish before my characters eyes before now.

scorpius2k1

RedMuse wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Fwiw, my only gripe about instancing is friends, and especially groups. Sure, "just port" and what not, but that's the "solution" only because that's what we are attuned to doing in ESO as normal. Had this type of instancing been implemented, dare I say, properly, it would be the norm. Why the server doesn't always phase you in the same public zone instance (overland, dungeon, etc) as your friends/group, but instead randomly phased into the same or different instance is a bit odd to me. It seems to be implemented properly and widely on other MMO's, I don't see why ESO doesn't do it as well. The global phasing would only need to happen when you are in the same zone as others on your friends/group list, and even more fine-tuned, only when in the same area. It may seem insignificant to some but for me it would be a huge QoL feature and imho make the gameplay a lot more seamless and immersive.
.

This probably happens because the instance most of you ported into was filled (possibly with your arrival) leaving no room for one or more of your group mates. And it is very hard to take that into account because most algorithms doing this will put you in the "closest to filled but can take your whole group" instance, but as other players are arriving too that instance might reach max while some of you are porting in, so they have to be put into another instance.

The only thing that bothers me about the instancing is that we have no deliberate choice in which instance we're put in. Like unless I port to a friend in another instance then I can't swap instances. Other games which have this instanced setup allows this, such as STO, NWO and SWTOR. That's what is really needed imo.

Agreed with everything you said. You're likely right about the server population being soft-capped in larger zones being one reason to an extent of why sometimes we are in the same phase with friends/group and other times not. This is why I have such an issue with the "megaserver" concept; in ESO it seems more like a misnomer and still acts more like a "shard" for lack of a better word. A great concept on paper, but not so much in a live environment with so many variables in play it becomes flawed and can have the reverse-effect that is about as reliable as RNG being a guarantee.

Avalon

I think what's going on is something only ESO seems to have: Phasing.

Yeah, we have different instances of zones to save on the server loads and all that, but we also have 'phasing' where the players are technically in the same INSTANCE, but not seeing each other, or whatever else. When a teammate is in a different instance, you can just port to them and it will shove you into their instance, regardless of player counts. Different instances have different spawns, items like nodes, etc.

However, if they are in a different phase, there is nothing you can do about it. They can still activate items in the world that are still in YOUR phase, though, as they are, again, technically in the same instance.

I still swear the phasing thing is a completely dumb idea, and have said that since the game was in beta on PC. It kills grouping to do 'overland' content, which then leads to them needing to kill the difficulties for doing that content, which leads to other bad issues elsewhere in the game. They should, instead, FOSTER the wish to group for most overland content, which would create a need for tanks, healers, etc, throughout the game, not just in the toughest content - where we have a lack of tanks and healers due to 90% of the game not needing them in the least - which was brought about because of the stupid phasing BS.

rpa

Players in different phase definitely can compete of same nodes without seeing each other. For example in Bangorai, players who have finished (Trials an Tribulations and) To Walk on Far Shores and players who have not both harvesting nodes at Imperial Encampment near Hall of Heroes.

Malkiv

Avalon wrote: »

I think what's going on is something only ESO seems to have: Phasing.

WoW and SWTOR use this exact same thing. The term "phasing" was actually used to describe the system in WoW by Blizz back during Cataclysm.

Athan1

Some players may not have across this so they may not understand the OP. It happens sometimes when you are in a group, that you are in different instances of the zone, unrelated to quests. For example, once my friend was next to me in Elden Root, I could see his indicator but not his avatar because he was in a different instance. If you teleport to your friend you then join the same instance. That's why the game prompts you to tp to your team members even if you are in the same zone.

What I'm saying is that the instances should be separate and not physically on each other. It's just awkward. All MMOs I've played have different channels so this issue never occurs.

Re resource nodes, I doubt that it's just my game bugging. When a player can't load properly due to performance you see a black avatar running around, I've never heard of invisible players. Plus my gaming laptop works so it couldn't have been that. I'm on PC but I see people from consoles have experienced it too.

Yesterday I was following a trail of resources and they were all being used by invisible players. Was it invisible bots? Was it players from other instances? Idk but it needs to be fixed.

SeaGtGruff

I play on PC, and I knew exactly what the OP was talking about. Everyone saying they don't know what the OP is talking about, or who think it must be a console issue, are making me laugh.

You're telling me you've never answered someone in zone chat-- maybe it was a WTS, or WTB, or WTT-- grouped with them so you could meet to carry out the transaction, only to see their group crown or health bar floating in midair over empty space because the two of you are in different instances? You've never had to port to them to change instances? And maybe even gone through the comedy of errors where you port to them while they port to you-- because neither one said to the other, "I'll port to you"-- so all you do is swap instances and still can't trade?

You've never run up to a node and had it disappear just before you can harvest it, or maybe it even looks like you've harvested it because you go through the harvesting animation but then it disappears and you get nothing from it? Although I sometimes wonder if that was because the node was in the process of respawning on a timer. Is there a period of time between when an old node despawns and is gone for a bit before a new node respawns in its place? But yeah, if you go to harvest it and get the message that someone else is using it, except no one else is visible, then I assume they're in a different instance.

The first time I really started to pay attention to this was a few years ago when an in-game friend asked if I would help another of their friends complete some content, so I said yes, only to find that the two of us couldn't see the third player, presumably because we'd already done that quest and were in a different phase of the zone. That, and then not being able to see players to trade with them, was what prompted me to go searching the internet and learn about instances, phases, etc.

Since then, I just accept it as a normal feature of MMOs, but I was recently wondering how it all works. For instance (no pun intended), do they create a certain number of instances and then let them fill up in an even distribution by placing players in given instances as they log in-- that is, player 1 logs in and gets put into instance A, player 2 logs in and gets put into instance B, player 3 logs in and gets put into instance C, then they start repeating the cycle with A, B, C, letting those instances fill up in what is hopefully an even distribution? Or do they fill up one instance and let it get to a certain threshold before they decide to start another instance? It seems like evenly filling up a preset number of instances through rotating logins would be the better way to go, but I can also see an advantage to having a flexible number of instances that can grow or shrink as needed-- if that is even possible without taking the servers down?

Avalon

Athan1 wrote: »

What I'm saying is that the instances should be separate and not physically on each other. It's just awkward. All MMOs I've played have different channels so this issue never occurs.

What you, and a couple others, are not getting: different instances ARE separated, and have different spawns for enemies AND nodes - you cannot interact with a different instance's stuff, it's not the same 'entity'.

ALSO, there is no such thing as 'unrelated to quests' in this game. Unless you are in a dungeon, delve, or trial, that is. Every overland zone has various quests built into them to determine how they work, look, and more. So, you might think, "We're not even WORKING on quests!" but the game doesn't care a bit what you are or are not doing. It cares at what stage each of you are in each of the questlines for whatever particular zone you are in, and more importantly for the region of the zone.

If you have done all of your alliance's basic quests, but have a friend who just started, you might be almost incapable of grouping in those areas because they will keep 'poofing' when you walk into certain areas. They are STILL in your instance, and can see the stuff you see, including nodes... but you cannot see them, they cannot see you. You can see the arrow/chevron above their heads. But that's only because you are grouped - if you weren't, they'd still be in your instance, able to affect your environment, etc... you just wouldn't be able to see them.

THAT is what the OP is describing, and THAT is what people are trying to explain. There ARE others wandering around us, IN our instances, who we cannot see, and can 'steal' our chests, nodes, etc. They are just not at the same stage of whatever quests are important for that particular area/region/zone. And, btw, having not even accepted a quest or questline counts as being at 'stage zero' for that quest most of the time. So, you ARE on that line, you just haven't done anything, including talking to the starting NPC or activating whatever item, etc.

oldbobdude

Funny, my guild grouped to do trials over the weekend and we weren't in the same instance yet. I have an addon that puts a colored icon for their role over their head. Just had that and the little Chevron thing. Looked hilarious. 🤣