Ranged weapon mechanics.

Vedosl4v

Request to the developers.

If possible, make archery mechanics more role-playing. Otherwise, it seems that are shooting from a firearm or a crossbow, all the charm of shooting is lost.

With a power attack (maximum bowstring tension), I would like to see the retention of the shot (as in Skyrim), and not the instant flight of the arrow. Such mechanics create the impression of direct participation in the game activity, which in turn enriches the role-playing component of the game. And if you add to this the free flight of an arrow to any place where the player intended, it would be even more wonderful.

Greater player control over the process creates the effect of deeper immersion in the game. Freedom creates variety, and variety ensures novelty, fun, and unpredictability. Character skills as integral elements of MMORPGs, and the ability to control the character's usual attacks like in RPG games is truly an amazing combination, which has not yet been implemented by anyone.

Perhaps this idea will also be supported by the other players...

p.s. sry for my eng.

WrathOfInnos

Bow heavy attacks could be held at one point. I can’t remember exactly when or why it was changed to auto-attack.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Bow heavy attacks could be held at one point. I can’t remember exactly when or why it was changed to auto-attack.

I think one of the issues is that it was very hard to distinguish and time a medium vs full heavy back in the day. It frankly simplified combat when they did it. It was changed very early in game, but dont remember exactly when. There may have also been issues with people able to prep and hold for PVP burst combos that at the time were a bit out of hand, but I could also be making that up. Haha

I have played a lot of single player ES titles with a rouge Bow build, and you definitely do a lot of sneaking around with your bow nocked and drawn. ESO combat is so much faster paced then any of the other ES titles that I think if you went back to that now it would cause issues (very clunky) in more advanced combat.

YandereGirlfriend

The whole "smart arrow" targeting really bothered me when I first began the game and repelled me from even using a Bow through several alts.

I still do not like it but realize now that it's probably the lesser of several evils, especially with performance being what it is. It would be nearly impossible to have physics-enabled arrows in an environment where the servers already are under so much strain. In practice, you would never be able to hit anything and it would prove to be an immense frustration.

Vedosl4v

Thanks for your opinions.

I see ...
What can do, will have to wait another ten years, maybe then someone will be able to implement an interesting combat system in MMORPG.

WrathOfInnos

Vedosl4v wrote: »

Thanks for your opinions.

I see ...
What can do, will have to wait another ten years, maybe then someone will be able to implement an interesting combat system in MMORPG.

I’m not sure it’s a lack of technology. FPS games have been making projectiles work with online latency for over a decade (think throwing knife in COD). It seems to be a design choice to make bows lock on, auto fire, and projectiles follow the target.

YandereGirlfriend

But FPS games are using engines specifically designed for physics-enabled objects and projectiles. The Hero Engine is both ancient and designed for RPGs.

That said, an interesting road-not-traveled might have been simply using hit-scan for Light and Heavy ranged projectile attacks. You would still have the element of manual aiming but would not introduce any of the overhead involved with rendering and calculating the paths of physics-enabled projectiles.

It would still be subject to lag but much less so than fully physics-enabled projectiles.

Toc de Malsvi

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Bow heavy attacks could be held at one point. I can’t remember exactly when or why it was changed to auto-attack.

I think one of the issues is that it was very hard to distinguish and time a medium vs full heavy back in the day.

This was just the BS excuse they used. It wasn’t any harder than learning to light weave.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It frankly simplified combat when they did it.

It changed nothing for PVE.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It was changed very early in game, but dont remember exactly when.

You could hold heavies for 3 years, it changed in 2017. It wasn’t “very” early, but it wasn’t recently.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

There may have also been issues with people able to prep and hold for PVP burst combos that at the time were a bit out of hand, but I could also be making that up.

This was the real complaint that led to a long line of Bow heavy attack nerfs before removing the functionality of being able to hold them and release when wanted.

Toc de Malsvi

Vedosl4v wrote: »

Request to the developers.

If possible, make archery mechanics more role-playing. Otherwise, it seems that are shooting from a firearm or a crossbow, all the charm of shooting is lost.

With a power attack (maximum bowstring tension), I would like to see the retention of the shot (as in Skyrim), and not the instant flight of the arrow. Such mechanics create the impression of direct participation in the game activity, which in turn enriches the role-playing component of the game. And if you add to this the free flight of an arrow to any place where the player intended, it would be even more wonderful.

Greater player control over the process creates the effect of deeper immersion in the game. Freedom creates variety, and variety ensures novelty, fun, and unpredictability. Character skills as integral elements of MMORPGs, and the ability to control the character's usual attacks like in RPG games is truly an amazing combination, which has not yet been implemented by anyone.

Perhaps this idea will also be supported by the other players...

p.s. sry for my eng.

They essentially had this and scrapped it. The early OG gankers did so with heavy attacks and it was essentially 1 hit and you died. Most commonly on a NB or DK. None of this snipe spam BS.

They nerfed it into the ground first. Then eventually removed the functionality.

Ignoring ganking you used to be able to bait people with this. On a DK you could set people up with your fighters guild trap to get buffs and dot then as they tried to burst you, you use Corrosive Armor and walk away from them while charging your heavy attack. Once charged you quickly snap around and release the heavy+silver shards, bypassing armor at the time. It would one shot many of the tankiest targets.

Auztinito

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Vedosl4v wrote: »

Thanks for your opinions.

I see ...
What can do, will have to wait another ten years, maybe then someone will be able to implement an interesting combat system in MMORPG.

I’m not sure it’s a lack of technology. FPS games have been making projectiles work with online latency for over a decade (think throwing knife in COD). It seems to be a design choice to make bows lock on, auto fire, and projectiles follow the target.

I hate to burst the bubble but physics based weapons don’t exist a majority of game especially shooters. CoD uses rays, timers, and bit of math then covers over it with VFX. Do you know how inconsistent it is to use a small game object to register hitting at a fast enough speed to look realistic? 9 times out of 10, that object won’t register hitting another objects collider. We’re talking just about any engine. Even BF doesn’t use engine physics to handle bullet hit detection.

WrathOfInnos

Auztinito wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Vedosl4v wrote: »

Thanks for your opinions.

I see ...
What can do, will have to wait another ten years, maybe then someone will be able to implement an interesting combat system in MMORPG.

I’m not sure it’s a lack of technology. FPS games have been making projectiles work with online latency for over a decade (think throwing knife in COD). It seems to be a design choice to make bows lock on, auto fire, and projectiles follow the target.

I hate to burst the bubble but physics based weapons don’t exist a majority of game especially shooters. CoD uses rays, timers, and bit of math then covers over it with VFX. Do you know how inconsistent it is to use a small game object to register hitting at a fast enough speed to look realistic? 9 times out of 10, that object won’t register hitting another objects collider. We’re talking just about any engine. Even BF doesn’t use engine physics to handle bullet hit detection.

Fair enough. I make no claims of knowing how various game engines handle the physics and collision detection. I just know that the outcome appears realistic and is satisfying, and manages to compensate for the differences in what each player sees (from latency) in a way that feels fair.

The funny thing about ESO bows is that the arrow flight physics looks pretty convincing when firing it at no target. It's just when you're aiming at an enemy that it turns into a heat-seeking magic arrow. I'm guessing this is to avoid having to do real collision detection, which is probably a good decision based on how strange the hitboxes can be in this game.

etchedpixels

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The funny thing about ESO bows is that the arrow flight physics looks pretty convincing when firing it at no target. It's just when you're aiming at an enemy that it turns into a heat-seeking magic arrow. I'm guessing this is to avoid having to do real collision detection, which is probably a good decision based on how strange the hitboxes can be in this game.

An MMO is a very weird environment because things happen with lag. When you fire your arrow the game not only doesn't actually know where the target is going to be when the arrow is launched it doesn't know where the target is right now. In Skyrim the game knows exactly where you are and exactly where the draugr who is about to get a surprise are located. In an MMO the game server often only knows where you were 100ms ago and where your target was 100ms ago and you are shooting at a target at its location 200ms ago.

Auztinito

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Auztinito wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Vedosl4v wrote: »

Thanks for your opinions.

I see ...
What can do, will have to wait another ten years, maybe then someone will be able to implement an interesting combat system in MMORPG.

I’m not sure it’s a lack of technology. FPS games have been making projectiles work with online latency for over a decade (think throwing knife in COD). It seems to be a design choice to make bows lock on, auto fire, and projectiles follow the target.

I hate to burst the bubble but physics based weapons don’t exist a majority of game especially shooters. CoD uses rays, timers, and bit of math then covers over it with VFX. Do you know how inconsistent it is to use a small game object to register hitting at a fast enough speed to look realistic? 9 times out of 10, that object won’t register hitting another objects collider. We’re talking just about any engine. Even BF doesn’t use engine physics to handle bullet hit detection.

Fair enough. I make no claims of knowing how various game engines handle the physics and collision detection. I just know that the outcome appears realistic and is satisfying, and manages to compensate for the differences in what each player sees (from latency) in a way that feels fair.

The funny thing about ESO bows is that the arrow flight physics looks pretty convincing when firing it at no target. It's just when you're aiming at an enemy that it turns into a heat-seeking magic arrow. I'm guessing this is to avoid having to do real collision detection, which is probably a good decision based on how strange the hitboxes can be in this game.

Oh. I wasn’t trying to argue or come off as aggressive. If that’s how my response came off, I apologize. I was just attempting to correct you in that 90% ranged weapons in any game don’t actually use engine physics/collision to detect things like bullets/arrows because the objects are too small and usually move too fast that the colliders on those object will bug out and never detect each other.

Yeah. Regardless, of how realistic it looks in game. It’s literally just a ton of math, invisible laser, and possibly timers doing the detection work. The only time physics is used for detection is if the object is slow and large enough to be registered. Even then, that’s not 100%.