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Please help me fix my build. (Stamina Bow Warden)

SimplyRuben
So I've recently found out after a long break that certain bow/bow setups can finally dish huge numbers, however, I found a build that I really liked (the sets atleast) but upon discovery when I was on my Mag DK and swapped to Stam Warden.. I noticed something.

My Mag DK with MS + BSW and Zaan somehow has 7.8k Spell Penetration. (Pretty good considering I don't run Lover but run Thief)
My Stamina Warden on the other hand runs Tzogvin + Relequen and a Blackrose/Maelstrom bow and it has a penetration of 2.8k? that's literally all coming from two sources > Piercing 40/40 and Tzogvin 2 piece... is this enough for solo build too or how can I further increase penetration for solo content without having to make major set changes.

Thanks yall in advance,
  • MellowMagic
    MellowMagic
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    Yeah stam has a penetration problem atm, use caltrops for solo content.
    PC / NA @MellowMagic
    Imperial named with some sort of variation of "Deo"
    By the Divines...
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    I also have a bow/bow warden. Her pen is just over 9k and the main sources are Spriggans (3.4k), Sharpened Weapons (3.3k) and Piercing CP (1.4k). In combat, she also keeps Major and Minor Resolve up (from Razor Caltrops and Focused Aim respectively) that add to her 9k 'base' of pen. Like you, however, she runs the Thief Mundus so gets no pen from that. Her other two gear sets (Hunding's and Slimecraw) also do not contribute to pen.

    I'd recommend trying to get a base of about 9k, then rely on group buffs to get it close to 18 in dungeons. Trash generally has 9k resists and bosses generally have 18k. Since my bowward is a solo boss killer, she runs the debuffs of Major and Minor Resolve herself to get her up pretty close to 18k in combat vs bosses.

    This all said it sounds like, overall, you are probably running out of my league since Tzogvin and Relequen come from sources that are beyond my ability to solo.
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on May 11, 2021 10:59PM
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Ippokrates
    Ippokrates
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    I don't know what is your crit dmg, but if pen is a serious problem, try evaluate Tzogvin vs Stuhn's Favor. Thanks to cliff racer you can get almost permanent & massive bonus to penetration.



  • SimplyRuben
    Well my Crit Damage is 12% from being Khajit 10% from applying Brittled with Winter's Revenge (or is Brittled 5%?) and an addition 2% from CP currently so it's pretty good paired with a 50% base crit chance that goes up to 59% with full Tzogvin.

    I will definitely checkout running caltrops on my backbar to give me atleast a big boost there for solo content! and as for Snipe I took the other morph the one where it applies Major Defile instead of Minor Breach, should I go remorph that ability?

    Thank you so much guys for the recommendations! :D
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    Regarding your Snipe morph, and assuming you're talking primarily boss killing: Defile reduces healing taken & health regen and I think is not very beneficial except for a few unique bosses (like the troll WB in Deeshan with obscene health regen). Minor Breach reduces resistances by nearly 3k though and that weakens all bosses as long as your penetration and resistance debuffs don't exceed 18k. I prefer the extra opening range (40m vs 35m) of Focused Aim as well.

    I really like starting trash fights from way out. Focused Aim + Poison Injection is a great combo. Fun for taking out individuals while questing. Versus bosses, I use that combo with a 10 second frequency as part of my rotation.

    To me, Caltrops is the weak link in trying to bust boss resists. Sure, it gives Major Breach but its damage is so darn poor. I'm going to wait to see what kind of damage buff Caltrops gets from Update 30 before deciding whether to swap Caltrops out for Volley and wear Night Mother's Gaze (which does a good job of applying Major Breach and has given me very good uptimes).
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on May 13, 2021 12:08AM
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Zodiarkslayer
    Zodiarkslayer
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    Regarding your Snipe morph, and assuming you're talking primarily boss killing: Defile reduces healing taken & health regen and I think is not very beneficial except for a few unique bosses (like the troll WB in Deeshan with obscene health regen). Minor Breach reduces resistances by nearly 3k though and that weakens all bosses as long as your penetration and resistance debuffs don't exceed 18k. I prefer the extra opening range (40m vs 35m) of Focused Aim as well.

    I really like starting trash fights from way out. Focused Aim + Poison Injection is a great combo. Fun for taking out individuals while questing. Versus bosses, I use that combo with a 10 second frequency as part of my rotation.

    To me, Caltrops is the weak link in trying to bust boss resists. Sure, it gives Major Breach but its damage is so darn poor. I'm going to wait to see what kind of damage buff Caltrops gets from Update 30 before deciding whether to swap Caltrops out for Volley and wear Night Mother's Gaze (which does a good job of applying Major Breach and has given me very good uptimes).

    Agreed. Caltrops is really weak compared to for example Ele Drain or Class based abilities with that debuff. Not necessarily because of damage, but the short duration. It was really annoying when the took Major Breach from Sub Assault.

    I would totally go for Night Mother's Gaze.

    And try out another front bar Bow. Magnum Shot is costly compared to Focused Aim as a spammable.
    read, think and write.In that order.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Regarding your Snipe morph, and assuming you're talking primarily boss killing: Defile reduces healing taken & health regen and I think is not very beneficial except for a few unique bosses (like the troll WB in Deeshan with obscene health regen). Minor Breach reduces resistances by nearly 3k though and that weakens all bosses as long as your penetration and resistance debuffs don't exceed 18k. I prefer the extra opening range (40m vs 35m) of Focused Aim as well.

    I really like starting trash fights from way out. Focused Aim + Poison Injection is a great combo. Fun for taking out individuals while questing. Versus bosses, I use that combo with a 10 second frequency as part of my rotation.

    To me, Caltrops is the weak link in trying to bust boss resists. Sure, it gives Major Breach but its damage is so darn poor. I'm going to wait to see what kind of damage buff Caltrops gets from Update 30 before deciding whether to swap Caltrops out for Volley and wear Night Mother's Gaze (which does a good job of applying Major Breach and has given me very good uptimes).

    Agreed. Caltrops is really weak compared to for example Ele Drain or Class based abilities with that debuff. Not necessarily because of damage, but the short duration. It was really annoying when the took Major Breach from Sub Assault.

    I would totally go for Night Mother's Gaze.

    And try out another front bar Bow. Magnum Shot is costly compared to Focused Aim as a spammable.
    Anti Calvary Caltrops when combined with Endless Hail and Winters Revenge gives Stam Warden an easy peasy back bar rotation of 14s while providing a good amount of aoe dps and the +10% crit damage passive for chilled enemies.

    Razor Caltrops does about the same damage, but aoe, as something like Poison Injection or Twin Slashes this patch, obviously less dps because it doesn't have PI's execute or Twin Slashes DW Execute, but it has Major Breach for +4s to anyone damaged by it. This means you can line it up with Endless Hails 14s duration and have constant uptime of the debuff while also doing average damage (instead of less just for casting it) vs other dots.

    On live, Razor Caltrops would barely do more damage than 1 cast of a spammable, now it follows the same rules so it does about 1.5x damage over 10s.

    Anti Calvary Caltrops on the other hand, lasts 15s for a nice lineup with Endless Hails 14s so technically, the 1 cast of the skill is about 2x as strong as casting 2 spammables, making it an actually good skill to cast in your rotation. Obviously this morph has no Major Breach, but it is technically the better dps option for situations where someone else could provide the debuff for you.

    Point is, both morphs are much more friendly for your dps, rather than being a hinderance by having it on your bar since it did so little.

    He's probably not using Magnum Shot as a spammable, it's an incredibly strong dot and most likely the best 2 piece bow you can use for dps, but frankly I find it's use case limited, especially in solo content since it requires a fair distance to get the dot to last long enough that it outpaces regular skills. In solo stuff, you will be swarmed instantly so it's just not worth it.

    Due to that, if you're looking for a 2 piece bow, the Vateshran is probably better since you're using snipe anyway. I dropped it though.. I got really annoyed by being interupted or casting your shot just for a mob to die before you can hit them, especially in 4 man content.

    Cliff Racer is instant (although slight delay for travel time) and now does direct bleed damage so that adds chances for the new Hemorphaging status effect for minor mangle (-10% max hp) and a small 4s dot. The heal every cast of Cliff Racer is a nice + seeing as Warden doesn't really have a good passive heal like Crit Surge, Lotus Flower is way too short imo for a 1300 heal you can get from Cliff Racer. That + aoe vigor every once in awhile is enough to keep me alive for some solo stuff and sustain myself a little in group content instead of completely relying on the healer.

    If off balance is procced, Cliff Racer will beat out Snipe. So there is pro's and con's to both, I just find Cliff Racer to be more versatile, the loss of dps on a dummy is more than made up for in actual content.

    And of course, it does offset things with the 2% damage done for all your other skills.

    This also frees up your 2 piece for something else like 2 pieces of monster sets providing spell/weapon crit, giving a little bit of a buff to Winters Revenge with the main focus just increasing crit. You could also add Kragh as 1 of the pieces and Ring of the Pale order for solo content if you want to get a better pen total.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Well my Crit Damage is 12% from being Khajit 10% from applying Brittled with Winter's Revenge (or is Brittled 5%?) and an addition 2% from CP currently so it's pretty good paired with a 50% base crit chance that goes up to 59% with full Tzogvin.

    I will definitely checkout running caltrops on my backbar to give me atleast a big boost there for solo content! and as for Snipe I took the other morph the one where it applies Major Defile instead of Minor Breach, should I go remorph that ability?

    Thank you so much guys for the recommendations! :D

    Minor Brittled is only applied via chilled when holding an ice staff, Brittled is a debuff for +10% crit damage taken.

    What you're thinking of is a Warden passive called Glacial Presence that does a similar thing, but it's unique to Warden and can stack with Brittled. It gives +10% crit damage/healing taken to chilled enemies and allies.

    Winters Revenge can proc chilled pretty reliably, and the skill does solid damage (like better than endless hail at base and anti calvary caltrops) if you've got your CP allocated fully and you're using a race like Kajiit, Dark Elf, etc that has bonuses for both mag and stam, it comes even farther. Get Bloodthirsty on jewelry not only because it's the best option (it is), but because Stam/Infused does not provide spell damage for Winters Revenge.

    Maybe use a Sharpenned bow + Tzogvin and you'll be at around 4.7k pen base which is all you need for endgame group content. For solo content, use Razor Caltrops or Anti Calvary Caltrops (better dps option) + Night Mothers Gaze to hit 10.7k pen. This way, no change needs to be made to mundus stone and NMG is easy to slot in if you prefer Anti Calvary.

    If you're adamant about using Snipe(read my previous comment), both morphs are solid. The poisoned morph does more dps because it guarantees the poisoned dot status effect and is better for group content where minor breach can be handled by someone else or passively from the groups physical damage, while the physical morph is cheaper and guarantees minor breach making it a good solo option like Razor Caltrops for major breach.

    So I guess the TLDR at a basic level is:
    Razor Caltrops/Physical Snipe = Solo
    Anti Calvary Caltrops/Poison Snipe = Group

    Personally, I set myself up for Group content, and adjust minor things for Solo content so I'd choose the higher dps morphs.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on May 16, 2021 9:14PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
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