The reason Why ZOS can't build decent PVP contents forever...

AvalonRanger

<The reason Why ZOS can't build decent PVP contents forever...>

my prologue story is here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7249183#Comment_7249183

I used to be a beta test player before launching time of ESO in 2014.
So, I know shameful display of ZOS in 2014 situation very well.

But now, I have positive impression for the most of DLC content. It's a amazing RPG experience.
They're great game designers, did very well, nice work!! ........................ But, except PVP.

ZOS PVP....the ZOS PVP never changes. That's most unnecessary stupid content for the Elder Scrolls.


#1. Bringing champion point to the PVP area is the most bad idea.

Filling every point of CP will make monster player. It's a almost god mode player, and will destroy
game balance very badly. It's not so bad for PVE server. But it will be terrible in the PVP content.

Why? -->#2

#2. ZOS PVP concept is totally wrong from the base line.

Sharing same level risk and thrill each other makes good tension and exciting for the PVP.
And, it's totally fair play. The point is people having same degree combat power, but just different
tactics.

However, ZOS keep ignoring monster over power players.

I hate Mud Crab farming. It's only for boring crafting material, not for gaming joy.
Fighting against equal power opponent makes the PVP very enjoyable.

#3. Boring level design

Most of ESO combat system hold on the very flat and empty ground both of PVE and PVP.
There're not much useful field tactics in the ESO.

(youtube sample) DOOM PVP has interesting elevation structure level design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmWDSLBMQMo

#4. The PVP should force players to use preset character for the PVP only.

Why? -->#2

Do not permit customized over power build PVE character in the PVP server.
Otherwise, newbie will hate ESO PVP forever.

#5. DO NOT COMBINE any of PVE quest or some PVE relation content including SCRYING LEAD at the PVP server.

It - just - doesn't - work. (like Todd Howard say )

Greasytengu

1. No. They already have No-CP campaigns. They are empty because the overwhelming preference is for CP Cyrodiil.
2. Everyone is already hypothetically equal. We all have access to the same skills/sets/classes/consumables as everyone else. If there is a major power difference its because of a flaw in your build or playstyle.
3. Are you trying to compare the PVP in a FPS to the PVP in a MMO?
4. NO. Theorycrafting is half the fun of PVP in ESO. Look at the complaints regarding the NO-Proc situation, most of them are about how stale combat is.
5. Its fine as it is. The Devs want people to try all of the content available, not just sticking to the one thing you are comfortable with.

LarsS

On EU/PC the non-CP campaign is the most populated one.

techyeshic

LarsS wrote: »

On EU/PC the non-CP campaign is the most populated one.

And thats fine. It's good the option is there so that there really is no point in complaining about it.

Ceejengine

I 100% agree that ESO needs more terrain interaction, verticality, and skill lines that focus specifically on agility and navigation.

Adding things like ladders (that you actually climb and don't just teleport to the or bottom of), ledges, cracks / stones you can climb.
Improve running jumps into leaps and allow ledge grabbing.
Add animations for when a character is walking on something narrow.
Allow ropes / grapples with non-specific points.

That'd turn battlegrounds into a spectacle.

Add neutral NPCs and powerful mobs. You could even do Assassin's Creed type social stealth.

Imagine in an objective based battleground, you could stealth kill an aristocrat, steal his clothing, then move about through a crowd, stealthily killing enemy players

Obviously there's a ton more work that needs to be done to other aspects of PVP that would also drastically improve it.

I also think that they should start tuning specific skills in PVP areas. Like if an ability is fine in PVP but overpowered in PVP, your class would just permenantly have that ability tuned down while on Cyro / BGs.

The ideal fix would be to code it behind the screen so that an ability has 1 powerlevel vs NPCs, and a separate against players.

Not different functionality but say lime
Deals 8,000 to mobs
Deals 4,200 to players

AvalonRanger

Ceejengine wrote: »

I 100% agree that ESO needs more terrain interaction, verticality, and skill lines that focus specifically on agility and navigation.

Adding things like ladders (that you actually climb and don't just teleport to the or bottom of), ledges, cracks / stones you can climb.
Improve running jumps into leaps and allow ledge grabbing.
Add animations for when a character is walking on something narrow.
Allow ropes / grapples with non-specific points.

That'd turn battlegrounds into a spectacle.

Add neutral NPCs and powerful mobs. You could even do Assassin's Creed type social stealth.

Imagine in an objective based battleground, you could stealth kill an aristocrat, steal his clothing, then move about through a crowd, stealthily killing enemy players

Obviously there's a ton more work that needs to be done to other aspects of PVP that would also drastically improve it.

I also think that they should start tuning specific skills in PVP areas. Like if an ability is fine in PVP but overpowered in PVP, your class would just permenantly have that ability tuned down while on Cyro / BGs.

The ideal fix would be to code it behind the screen so that an ability has 1 powerlevel vs NPCs, and a separate against players.

Not different functionality but say lime
Deals 8,000 to mobs
Deals 4,200 to players

I agree most of part. I felt same thing.

I don't want to pay money for <ESO+> just only to play too much over dated ZOS's action game.
If I really want to play nice PVP or action game, I don't choose ESO or any of ZOS game.

I love RPG story content of ESO, but I hate ESO as action game.

ThoughtRaven

AvalonRanger wrote: »

#1. Bringing champion point to the PVP area is the most bad idea.

No. The power gap between low and high cp players is already the lowest it has ever been, and is in a good spot. Also, as has already been mentioned, if people wanted to play without cp the no-cp campaigns wouldn't be ghost towns

#4. The PVP should force players to use preset character for the PVP only.

Absolutely terrible idea. Stopped being able to take your suggestions seriously here.

Lephrel

AvalonRanger wrote: »

#4. The PVP should force players to use preset character for the PVP only.

Why? -->#2

Do not permit customized over power build PVE character in the PVP server.
Otherwise, newbie will hate ESO PVP forever.

You forgot about those of us whose ability to kill noobs is the only thing to give us a bit of self-esteem.

Seriously though, I don't agree with any of the suggestions. It's all irrelevant as long as they haven't fixed lag though.

jecks33

AvalonRanger wrote: »

#1. Bringing champion point to the PVP area is the most bad idea.

agree 100%. No-cp cyrodiil is the more balanced pvp in the game (without procsets is even better).

People know that and this is why on pc eu at 11pm we have a queue of 30/40 players and other campaigns are pretty empty

nukk3r

AvalonRanger wrote: »

#3. Boring level design

Most of ESO combat system hold on the very flat and empty ground both of PVE and PVP.
There're not much useful field tactics in the ESO.

(youtube sample) DOOM PVP has interesting elevation structure level design

OP, are you seriously comparing ESO to DOOM?

LarsS wrote: »

On EU/PC the non-CP campaign is the most populated one.

These words coming from a leader of the biggest zerg guild at PCEU seem cynical.

AvalonRanger

nukk3r wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

#3. Boring level design

Most of ESO combat system hold on the very flat and empty ground both of PVE and PVP.
There're not much useful field tactics in the ESO.

(youtube sample) DOOM PVP has interesting elevation structure level design

OP, are you seriously comparing ESO to DOOM?

LarsS wrote: »

On EU/PC the non-CP campaign is the most populated one.

These words coming from a leader of the biggest zerg guild at PCEU seem cynical.

>>OP, are you seriously comparing ESO to DOOM?

--> Yea. But, it doesn't mean to suggest "super jumping" or "BFG9000".
Just I suggested that ESO is lack of creative level design.

Ceejengine

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Ceejengine wrote: »

I 100% agree that ESO needs more terrain interaction, verticality, and skill lines that focus specifically on agility and navigation.

Adding things like ladders (that you actually climb and don't just teleport to the or bottom of), ledges, cracks / stones you can climb.
Improve running jumps into leaps and allow ledge grabbing.
Add animations for when a character is walking on something narrow.
Allow ropes / grapples with non-specific points.

That'd turn battlegrounds into a spectacle.

Add neutral NPCs and powerful mobs. You could even do Assassin's Creed type social stealth.

Imagine in an objective based battleground, you could stealth kill an aristocrat, steal his clothing, then move about through a crowd, stealthily killing enemy players

Obviously there's a ton more work that needs to be done to other aspects of PVP that would also drastically improve it.

I also think that they should start tuning specific skills in PVP areas. Like if an ability is fine in PVP but overpowered in PVP, your class would just permenantly have that ability tuned down while on Cyro / BGs.

The ideal fix would be to code it behind the screen so that an ability has 1 powerlevel vs NPCs, and a separate against players.

Not different functionality but say lime
Deals 8,000 to mobs
Deals 4,200 to players

I agree most of part. I felt same thing.

I don't want to pay money for <ESO+> just only to play too much over dated ZOS's action game.
If I really want to play nice PVP or action game, I don't choose ESO or any of ZOS game.

I love RPG story content of ESO, but I hate ESO as action game.

I'm right there with you. I love this game, but I Also feel ZOS is barely scratching the surface of what they could do.

I'm constantly hearing people say that some mechanic or content is boring or undertuned or can't do this super cool thing because ESO is an MMO and MMOs don't do that.

I'm just here thinking what about when WoW came out? Did they not try to do awesome stuff because other games didn't? Isn't that the whole idea of the free market? You want your game to havery the most interesting & fun content / mechanics.

You say you don't like ESO as an action game and I agree there but only because the action part is so poorly executed.

rpa

I myself have not played any PvP games for 6 years or so but assume there are still some left which are not for power grind and lootboxes. Play one of those and have fun. Mmos in genral tend to focus on the infinite quest for ever increasing power which makes PvP in that genre more or less suck.

Xebov

The number one reason for PvP to fail is the bad reward structure. PvP ranks take forever and you can do PvP for hours and still not be able to buy something because the AP prices are unrealistic. IC as a PvP zone rewards ganking more than actual playing. With this background its no wonder that ppl jump into it and quickly leave because they notice that their playtime is not adequatly rewarded.