Make Ice Mages More Viable?

regime211

Given some of the tool kits given in the winters embrace skill tree, and the shift to allowing Ice to become on par with it's counter elemental parts, I would like to suggest giving the winters embrace skill line, a nice ice spammable. Someone who mains an ice mage I feel like we could maybe change Frozen retreat to something that would be more utilized but not within its current state as I Don't see many use it at all,I know this is pretty far fetched for asking for a change to give ice mages a place to finally shine. But i think it would give others who are curious to actually want to play one. Any suggestions can be listed below, and please keep this thread positive and constructive!

lolo_01b16_ESO

Big no. Frozen gate is an amazing skill. It's one of my most used skills when I tank. Especially in arenas or other fights where enemies spawn during combat it's great because you can cast it before the enemy spawns and as soon as they spawn, they will be pulled. Also it seems to me that gate works more reliable than dk chains.

If you want an ice spammable in the warden tree, replace arctic wind with that spammable and change living vines to be a hp based self heal.

regime211

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Big no. Frozen gate is an amazing skill. It's one of my most used skills when I tank. Especially in arenas or other fights where enemies spawn during combat it's great because you can cast it before the enemy spawns and as soon as they spawn, they will be pulled. Also it seems to me that gate works more reliable than dk chains.

If you want an ice spammable in the warden tree, replace arctic wind with that spammable and change living vines to be a hp based self heal.

I get where you're coming from but I would not change artic wind. And honestly frozen gate is useful for pve, I would change the other morph frozen retreat to something more useful as that morph alone is completely useless. And I would not change the vines as the posting clearly talks about "Winters Embrace skill tree" and that is a first hearing someone use frozen gate in pve to be honest.

MindOfTheSwarm

regime211 wrote: »

Given some of the tool kits given in the winters embrace skill tree, and the shift to allowing Ice to become on par with it's counter elemental parts, I would like to suggest giving the winters embrace skill line, a nice ice spammable. Someone who mains an ice mage I feel like we could maybe change Frozen gate to be more utilized but not within its current state as I Don't see many use it at all, unless it's probably for pve, and some for pvp to use as a bridge mechanism to throw people off of it. I know this is pretty far fetched for asking for a change to give ice mages a place to finally shine. But i think it would give others who are curious to actually want to play one. Any suggestions can be listed below, and please keep this thread positive and constructive!

I don’t think Frost mages need a Frost spammable at all. I think they should be about DoT’s and AoE’s. Building up colder and colder areas. Disagree that Frost should be a burst oriented play style. I do agree that we need more skill options though. We are currently restricted to Destro staff and Winter’s Revenge and to an extent Arctic Blast. I think having Frozen Slab operate more offensively would be a step in the right direction, similar to Flames of Oblivion maybe give it Major Prophecy. But who knows, maybe we will get a new guild skill line in future with a few Frost abilities thrown in.

YandereGirlfriend

Frost Mages definitely need a Frost spammable.

You can't have a 100% Frost Damage rotation with it.

Frozen Escape is absolutely an expendable morph that would be a candidate for it.

the1andonlyskwex

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

regime211

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Given some of the tool kits given in the winters embrace skill tree, and the shift to allowing Ice to become on par with it's counter elemental parts, I would like to suggest giving the winters embrace skill line, a nice ice spammable. Someone who mains an ice mage I feel like we could maybe change Frozen gate to be more utilized but not within its current state as I Don't see many use it at all, unless it's probably for pve, and some for pvp to use as a bridge mechanism to throw people off of it. I know this is pretty far fetched for asking for a change to give ice mages a place to finally shine. But i think it would give others who are curious to actually want to play one. Any suggestions can be listed below, and please keep this thread positive and constructive!

I don’t think Frost mages need a Frost spammable at all. I think they should be about DoT’s and AoE’s. Building up colder and colder areas. Disagree that Frost should be a burst oriented play style. I do agree that we need more skill options though. We are currently restricted to Destro staff and Winter’s Revenge and to an extent Arctic Blast. I think having Frozen Slab operate more offensively would be a step in the right direction, similar to Flames of Oblivion maybe give it Major Prophecy. But who knows, maybe we will get a new guild skill line in future with a few Frost abilities thrown in.

I would hope we can get a tool kit updated or implemented within the winters embrace treez instead of using a ice proc set or relying strictly on destro skills entirely. I think winters embrace could be changed to something viable. Crystallized slab I like due to the ice shards shooting back after taking damage. I believe they could make ice mage a thing without having to bother making a whole new class to do just that.

regime211

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Frost Mages definitely need a Frost spammable.

You can't have a 100% Frost Damage rotation with it.

Frozen Escape is absolutely an expendable morph that would be a candidate for it.

I definitely believe Frozen retreat can be removed and utilized for a spammable that way those who use Frozen gate for pve, we can also get a spammable both for pvp/pve.

regime211

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

Because this thread is about a Frost" "Ice" mage and also I am strictly talking about the winters embrace skill line, the spammable cliff racer does NOT do ice damage. And we're also not talking about other classes within this thread either.

the1andonlyskwex

regime211 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

Because I am talking about a "Frost" "Ice" I am strictly talking about the winters embrace skill line, the spammable cliff racer does NOT do ice damage.

So? Crystal Frags doesn't do shock damage and you don't see Sorcerers demanding a second spammable in the Storm Calling skill line.

regime211

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

The same reason why people have requested for ice mages to become a thing, and the same reason why the ice element has gone through the changes it has, the same reason why sets are or have been released to help with ice elemental dps, so why should every class be the same? And not have some diversity on how you want to play a class.

regime211

regime211 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

Because this thread is about a Frost" "Ice" mage and also I am strictly talking about the winters embrace skill line, the spammable cliff racer does NOT do ice damage. And we're also not talking about other classes within this thread either.

Last time I checked Crystal frags does a significant amount of damage, and once again if you read the title thread you would understand that this is about ice mages, not about sorceress, if sorceres were underperforming then I would understand the need for it. But this isn't about that, if you have nothing to add regarding this then please Don't add to the discussion as other's who previously commented think the same as I do.

the1andonlyskwex

regime211 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

The same reason why people have requested for ice mages to become a thing, and the same reason why the ice element has gone through the changes it has, the same reason why sets are or have been released to help with ice elemental dps, so why should every class be the same? And not have some diversity on how you want to play a class.

Why don't you just live with the diversity your class already has? Use all three of your skill lines. You play a Warden, not a nonexistent "Ice Mage" class.

regime211

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

The same reason why people have requested for ice mages to become a thing, and the same reason why the ice element has gone through the changes it has, the same reason why sets are or have been released to help with ice elemental dps, so why should every class be the same? And not have some diversity on how you want to play a class.

Why don't you just live with the diversity your class already has? Use all three of your skill lines. You play a Warden, not a nonexistent "Ice Mage" class.

I'm not going to further entertain you.

YandereGirlfriend

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

Because I am talking about a "Frost" "Ice" I am strictly talking about the winters embrace skill line, the spammable cliff racer does NOT do ice damage.

So? Crystal Frags doesn't do shock damage and you don't see Sorcerers demanding a second spammable in the Storm Calling skill line.

I'm out here asking for a Shock Damage spammable and for more viable Shock Damage skills in the Sorcerer line literally all the time.

It's a crime of game design that the Shock Mage class has to launder their Shock Damage through their pets (I hate pets!) and have no other significant damage abilities of their own to use.

Every elemental class should aspire to be like magDKs, they are the example of a class power fantasy done correctly.

regime211

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why Frost Wardens should get a frost spammable when the class already has a spammable in the animal companions skill line. Sorcerers don't have a shock spammable, Nightblades don't have a Disease spammable, and Dragonknight's don't have a Poison spammable. In fact, the only build in the game that can really lean 100% into a single damage type is Mag DK and everyone else has to diversify. Why should a niche build of Warden be special?

Because I am talking about a "Frost" "Ice" I am strictly talking about the winters embrace skill line, the spammable cliff racer does NOT do ice damage.

So? Crystal Frags doesn't do shock damage and you don't see Sorcerers demanding a second spammable in the Storm Calling skill line.

I'm out here asking for a Shock Damage spammable and for more viable Shock Damage skills in the Sorcerer line literally all the time.

It's a crime of game design that the Shock Mage class has to launder their Shock Damage through their pets (I hate pets!) and have no other significant damage abilities of their own to use.

Every elemental class should aspire to be like magDKs, they are the example of a class power fantasy done correctly.

Well said!

DontWorryAboutit

Youre asking for class skills on a class that doesnt exist in eso.... We dont have an ice mage and the warden is a hodge podge of whack ass abilities for a whack class that was designed for battlegrounds as a selling point for wardenfell ..... Oops i meant (Vvardenfell)

Btw vvardenfell has no ice or bears.

Ryuvain

Seems like just adding yet another spammable to a class that's already on top. Doesn't seem like it's needed.

Warden already has every tool in the game that every other class wish they had. They're even the only class that can be a full stam healer.

If you wanted buffs to ice destro skills then I'd be all for it.

YandereGirlfriend

Ryuvain wrote: »

Seems like just adding yet another spammable to a class that's already on top. Doesn't seem like it's needed.

Warden already has every tool in the game that every other class wish they had. They're even the only class that can be a full stam healer.

If you wanted buffs to ice destro skills then I'd be all for it.

This is bad reasoning - all classes should have nice things not enviously squabble with one another.

We want Warden Frost Damage skills and we also want buffs for other classes that will make them more powerful and thematically unique.

ESO_Nightingale

I think a frost damage spammable that would work with the playstyle would be nice. Good targets from within winter's embrace include Frozen Retreat and Expansive Frost Cloak(provided the current range bonus it has is applied to base or even just ice fortress).

These would take time to rework and instead, screaming cliff racer gaining frost damage instead of magic would mean a lot less work for zos. Screaming Cliff Racer does need to be a better skill overall, so just this change alone doesn't fix it's problems.

Someone mentioned reworking arctic wind into a spammable, and i don't necessarily agree that it should be turned into a spammable, but instead the base and polar wind morphs remain the same while arctic blast, becomes an AoE burst damage skill with a stun on it, with a lingering AoE cloak, completely removing the healing and defensive stun from the skill for damage and an offensive stun.

Some damage passive effects can be slowly removed for this new power as the amount we have completely compensates for our lack of power and synergy in most of our damage skills.

MindOfTheSwarm

Or simply make the Destro Staff spammable a single damage type that matches the staff. Problem solved for all elemental types.

Andre_Noir

The worst suggestion you can make for making magicka classes in general even more weak exactly an elemental spammable for each class

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Or simply make the Destro Staff spammable a single damage type that matches the staff. Problem solved for all elemental types.

That doesn't fix everything. Because the spammable can proc all status effects of it's elements, this makes it very useful. They'd have to change the morphs imo

Tessitura

I personally think they handled the magic effects and magicka thematics poorly in this game. Mechanically some of this stuff is pretty sound, not all but some. However so much never actually feels like a mage's spell. I mean where is the chain lightning or fireball for god's sake? I think altering the destruction staff would goa long way towards fixing that for people. I dont think any of Warden's tool kit should be taken out for a ice spammable when they could just change the elemental shock spell from the destruction tree to be based on the staff you are using instead of all three types.

Give ice staffs a Ice spike like what was in Skyrim, lightning staffs a chain lighting effect, fire staff a actual fireball.

Class fantasy and feeling like something in a game carries *** further then you might think. This game suffers dramatically from a lack of that.

Khaleer

They could simply steal from WoW and create an additional slot for items that change existing spells into a different look and/or effect. Turns CliffRacer into an Icebolt for example

YandereGirlfriend

I strongly agree about the need for basic Skyrim spells such as Chain Lightning, Fireball, and Ice Spike.

Those would probably fit in best as universal Destruction Staff skills but relevant classes also need their elemental toolkits drastically expanded.

Khaleer wrote: »

They could simply steal from WoW and create an additional slot for items that change existing spells into a different look and/or effect. Turns CliffRacer into an Icebolt for example

That solves the visuals but it wouldn't do anything for performance.

If you're trying to make a Frost Mage work as a viable DPS character you need to be able to have a rotation that is basically all Frost Damage.

Athan1

I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who slots Frozen Gate.

InaMoonlight

Also some amazing looking icy skills on npc's, we could consider "borrowing" a spellanimation for Frozen retreat's change, no fair that npc skills look more badass then ours

ESO_Nightingale

InaMoonlight wrote: »

Also some amazing looking icy skills on npc's, we could consider "borrowing" a spellanimation for Frozen retreat's change, no fair that npc skills look more badass then ours

There is an enemy in the delve that goes to blackreach in western skyrim. And he uses a frost tornado skill with a stun which is nearly exactly what my rework suggestion for Arctic Blast is. Even though frost tornados have existed for a long time in the game this one (I'm pretty sure) looks better and stuns exactly like my AB4.0 suggestion.

InaMoonlight

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

InaMoonlight wrote: »

Also some amazing looking icy skills on npc's, we could consider "borrowing" a spellanimation for Frozen retreat's change, no fair that npc skills look more badass then ours

There is an enemy in the delve that goes to blackreach in western skyrim. And he uses a frost tornado skill with a stun which is nearly exactly what my rework suggestion for Arctic Blast is. Even though frost tornados have existed for a long time in the game this one (I'm pretty sure) looks better and stuns exactly like my AB4.0 suggestion.

I remember that one, and yeah my warden snow leopard would spam such a skill with a snorting gleeful cackle ^^

Tessitura

Here is a fun fact, they will always make npc skills look better then ours. Its something they not only have done but actively made ours look worse so they wouldn't confuse people as to what they were standing in. So you will never get the cool npc abilities in this game.

Zos doesnt seem to get the idea that looking cool is a large part of player satisfaction. I mean not just ice spells but look at the cool bone abilities necrovamps get in Greymoore. It's way cooler then anything player necros get, plus their vamp abilities look cooler too, and these are things fresh level 3's fight.