Do werewolves need a revamp now?

Ryuvain

Title.

Ever since the armor nerf I feel like they don't do anything better than a base class? I'm more intimidated from a necro, warden, dk, nb, templar, etc running up to me than a wolf. I play one myself mostly due to purely liking them in general, but it's nothing to write home about imo. They used to be tanky at least.



Basically my reaction to one attacking me or transforming in front of me is just... "ok..."
Saw maybe 3-4 max in cyro, with none of them being a real threat.
They end up dying all the same, which is sad to me. With crimson and armor nerfs together, what then? I still like to play one due to just liking them, but don't want them to be completely useless.

Anyone get the same vibe from them?

Jeremy

Ryuvain wrote: »

Title.

Ever since the armor nerf I feel like they don't do anything better than a base class? I'm more intimidated from a necro, warden, dk, nb, templar, etc running up to me than a wolf. I play one myself mostly due to purely liking them in general, but it's nothing to write home about imo. They used to be tanky at least.



Basically my reaction to one attacking me or transforming in front of me is just... "ok..."
Saw maybe 3-4 max in cyro, with none of them being a real threat.
They end up dying all the same, which is sad to me. With crimson and armor nerfs together, what then? I still like to play one due to just liking them, but don't want them to be completely useless.

Anyone get the same vibe from them?

Considering I never see them now, yeah... they could probably use some improvements. Honestly I thought they were fine before the nerfs. They were strong, sure, but OP? Nah. But if there is one thing this forum excels at, it's getting things nerfed. My condolences to all the werewolves out there. I know how it feels to have your build nerfed into the dirt. It sucks.

TheForFeeF

They will probably get an update when the middle section of Skyrim is done as an expansion.

Ryuvain

Jeremy wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Title.

Ever since the armor nerf I feel like they don't do anything better than a base class? I'm more intimidated from a necro, warden, dk, nb, templar, etc running up to me than a wolf. I play one myself mostly due to purely liking them in general, but it's nothing to write home about imo. They used to be tanky at least.



Basically my reaction to one attacking me or transforming in front of me is just... "ok..."
Saw maybe 3-4 max in cyro, with none of them being a real threat.
They end up dying all the same, which is sad to me. With crimson and armor nerfs together, what then? I still like to play one due to just liking them, but don't want them to be completely useless.

Anyone get the same vibe from them?

Considering I never see them now, yeah... they could probably use some improvements. Honestly I thought they were fine before the nerfs. They were strong, sure, but OP? Nah. But if there is one thing this forum excels at, it's getting things nerfed. My condolences to all the werewolves out there. I know how it feels to have your build nerfed into the dirt. It sucks.

I've been trying to make it work myself, but still meh. My build isn't amazing at staying in a bruiser type fight, so I use wolf as a backup plan. It's okish but I still get no ult whatsoever. Not really worth it but I just like werewolves that much I guess.

Berchelous

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Ryuvain

Berchelous wrote: »

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Op? How so? They're pretty squishy and have zero range or utility. I can say that a single wolf won't really kill me by itself tbh. I'll just spam cc and force them to use up heals. If a wolf can hurt me, then it won't we able to take a hit either.

Berchelous

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Op? How so? They're pretty squishy and have zero range or utility. I can say that a single wolf won't really kill me by itself tbh. I'll just spam cc and force them to use up heals. If a wolf can hurt me, then it won't we able to take a hit either.

Regarding cyro, no procs make them less powerful, you can say this to all classes tho. However in bgs and ic, they can heal through procs(crimson), and build for max dmg and tankiness with 40k hp. What makes them op is the lack of disadvantages. Quick comparison with vampires' is enough.

Ryuvain

Berchelous wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Op? How so? They're pretty squishy and have zero range or utility. I can say that a single wolf won't really kill me by itself tbh. I'll just spam cc and force them to use up heals. If a wolf can hurt me, then it won't we able to take a hit either.

Regarding cyro, no procs make them less powerful, you can say this to all classes tho. However in bgs and ic, they can heal through procs(crimson), and build for max dmg and tankiness with 40k hp. What makes them op is the lack of disadvantages. Quick comparison with vampires' is enough.

You know that their armor is the exact same as the class armor buff now right? They aren't any tankier than a normal player building the same way. Also crimson is getting a huge nerf. (Thankfully)

Building tank with procs is getting killed next patch as well.

On the point with vampires: vamps don't lose their class passives, skills, weapons, weapon skills, etc, and can mix and match. Werewolves lose all that and have only 5 skills with no range.

Berchelous

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Op? How so? They're pretty squishy and have zero range or utility. I can say that a single wolf won't really kill me by itself tbh. I'll just spam cc and force them to use up heals. If a wolf can hurt me, then it won't we able to take a hit either.

Regarding cyro, no procs make them less powerful, you can say this to all classes tho. However in bgs and ic, they can heal through procs(crimson), and build for max dmg and tankiness with 40k hp. What makes them op is the lack of disadvantages. Quick comparison with vampires' is enough.

You know that their armor is the exact same as the class armor buff now right? They aren't any tankier than a normal player building the same way. Also crimson is getting a huge nerf. (Thankfully)

Building tank with procs is getting killed next patch as well.

On the point with vampires: vamps don't lose their class passives, skills, weapons, weapon skills, etc, and can mix and match. Werewolves lose all that and have only 5 skills with no range.

They are way tankier than normal player(except troll tanks and some warden/necro builds) because they have wp damage bonus which means they can build up to more tankiness and hp. Next patch is a different story. It can change anytime. Also you can check this video about ww next patch https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k

Werewolves benefit from class passives, and all of their skills are useful, while nearly all vamp skills are useless or very situational.

I do not disagree that they do not need rework. I think vampires and ww should be a nice flavour with their disadvantages and advantages, and ww is a bit overtuned in advantages part.

bLz

As someone who has been playing WW for some time, I recently removed the transform from my action bar. I'm keeping the points specced, we'll see how it goes.

It's true that at the moment it's a bit of a challenge. You have no range, your core skills and so no longer work. The synergy between core skills, fighters' guild and other skills no longer are active.

I've not had any issues with the survivability, but then again, I've not used transform in trials or PvP, I just tend to stick to my core DK skills.

Ryuvain

Berchelous wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Op? How so? They're pretty squishy and have zero range or utility. I can say that a single wolf won't really kill me by itself tbh. I'll just spam cc and force them to use up heals. If a wolf can hurt me, then it won't we able to take a hit either.

Regarding cyro, no procs make them less powerful, you can say this to all classes tho. However in bgs and ic, they can heal through procs(crimson), and build for max dmg and tankiness with 40k hp. What makes them op is the lack of disadvantages. Quick comparison with vampires' is enough.

You know that their armor is the exact same as the class armor buff now right? They aren't any tankier than a normal player building the same way. Also crimson is getting a huge nerf. (Thankfully)

Building tank with procs is getting killed next patch as well.

On the point with vampires: vamps don't lose their class passives, skills, weapons, weapon skills, etc, and can mix and match. Werewolves lose all that and have only 5 skills with no range.

They are way tankier than normal player(except troll tanks and some warden/necro builds) because they have wp damage bonus which means they can build up to more tankiness and hp. Next patch is a different story. It can change anytime. Also you can check this video about ww next patch https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k

Werewolves benefit from class passives, and all of their skills are useful, while nearly all vamp skills are useless or very situational.

I do not disagree that they do not need rework. I think vampires and ww should be a nice flavour with their disadvantages and advantages, and ww is a bit overtuned in advantages part.

It's fine to disagree. It's just my opinion but from pvp. Fighting against them and trying to make a working wolf. Vampires are better imo because you get full class and weapon synergy and aren't forced to use vamp skills.

Then if they build tanky they still don't have extra armor and their damage will still suffer. They also can't burst with ults either. Or purge. A dk can be even tankier with better damage.

Ryuvain

bLz wrote: »

As someone who has been playing WW for some time, I recently removed the transform from my action bar. I'm keeping the points specced, we'll see how it goes.

It's true that at the moment it's a bit of a challenge. You have no range, your core skills and so no longer work. The synergy between core skills, fighters' guild and other skills no longer are active.

I've not had any issues with the survivability, but then again, I've not used transform in trials or PvP, I just tend to stick to my core DK skills.

Exactly. So with all those downsides, no ultis, and base armor why not play your base class and just slot dawnbreaker? I'm still gonna play wolf though, no matter how nerfed.

Mythreindeer

WW did massive damage and were hugely tanky. Quite OP. The nerf to armor was the right one.

No balance, no fun

Brrrofski

I think we need to wait a patch or two and see what the reintroduction of "proc" sets does.

There aren't many at the moment and it's likely due to only having stat sets in Cyrodiil.

WWs are a lot stronger when certain proc or condition sets are available.

The armour nerf wasn't even that big unless you were running chudan anyway.

DreadDaedroth

I think the 10k armour passive should be restored back, it was not OP in past.

Ryuvain

Brrrofski wrote: »

I think we need to wait a patch or two and see what the reintroduction of "proc" sets does.

There aren't many at the moment and it's likely due to only having stat sets in Cyrodiil.

WWs are a lot stronger when certain proc or condition sets are available.

The armour nerf wasn't even that big unless you were running chudan anyway.

Chudan was the main part of strong werewolves, otherwise they were too squishy to stay in a fight without spamming their expensive heal every second. I do agree though, maybe something new will come up, just currently they're not good.

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

I think the 10k armour passive should be restored back, it was not OP in past.

Personally they were fine to me too, crimson aside. Without crimson they were tanky, but damage was still meh so they don't really kill.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

If the pounce lock bug if fixed for the ...3rd (?) time I’ll be ecstatic. Other than shuffling the numbers around and adding a wider variety of skins (white, black, brown, ...fawn w/e see nature documentaries). Happy with the skill set - it’s got everything needed to DPS or tank with tormentors, doesn’t rely too heavily on decent latency to put out reasonable bleed DPS. Maybe an updated model that’s less ratty but that is sheer folly.

CupcakePaparazzi

Ryuvain wrote: »

Title.

Ever since the armor nerf I feel like they don't do anything better than a base class? I'm more intimidated from a necro, warden, dk, nb, templar, etc running up to me than a wolf. I play one myself mostly due to purely liking them in general, but it's nothing to write home about imo. They used to be tanky at least.



Basically my reaction to one attacking me or transforming in front of me is just... "ok..."
Saw maybe 3-4 max in cyro, with none of them being a real threat.
They end up dying all the same, which is sad to me. With crimson and armor nerfs together, what then? I still like to play one due to just liking them, but don't want them to be completely useless.

Anyone get the same vibe from them?

I agree with you. I'll be using Sithis, Crimson, and another set to shoot dps up.

Tommy_The_Gun

Berchelous wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

No. Werewolves should be rare and builds must be designed around it. Actually more disadvantages should be added to being one.
Just read old posts about how they are op and unkillable. Imo they are still op.

Op? How so? They're pretty squishy and have zero range or utility. I can say that a single wolf won't really kill me by itself tbh. I'll just spam cc and force them to use up heals. If a wolf can hurt me, then it won't we able to take a hit either.

Regarding cyro, no procs make them less powerful, you can say this to all classes tho. However in bgs and ic, they can heal through procs(crimson), and build for max dmg and tankiness with 40k hp. What makes them op is the lack of disadvantages. Quick comparison with vampires' is enough.

You know that their armor is the exact same as the class armor buff now right? They aren't any tankier than a normal player building the same way. Also crimson is getting a huge nerf. (Thankfully)

Building tank with procs is getting killed next patch as well.

On the point with vampires: vamps don't lose their class passives, skills, weapons, weapon skills, etc, and can mix and match. Werewolves lose all that and have only 5 skills with no range.

They are way tankier than normal player(except troll tanks and some warden/necro builds) because they have wp damage bonus which means they can build up to more tankiness and hp. Next patch is a different story. It can change anytime. Also you can check this video about ww next patch https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k

Werewolves benefit from class passives, and all of their skills are useful, while nearly all vamp skills are useless or very situational.

I do not disagree that they do not need rework. I think vampires and ww should be a nice flavour with their disadvantages and advantages, and ww is a bit overtuned in advantages part.

This build was updated... WW in that build was purely for major resolve that anyone can have easily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jqv15uTJwg

But with all seriousness, WWs right now are in a decent spot. They are not meta, but can still be played. Not many running around, so I assume they are not OP either (unlike necros or wardens). All that is needed is some bugfixes - mainly to pounce that has a nasty tendency of locking you in place. Still, WW biggest flaw imho is lack of good mobility (no CC / Snare immunity tool) and no purge / negative effects removal tool. Those 2 hold them back, especially after their resistance got nerfed & it no longer stacks with resolve.

So, no need of a re-work really.

Greasytengu

Werewolf needs more quality of life and aesthetic changes than anything.


Pausing the ult drain while out of combat or being able to cancel the ult early and get some of it back.

A new model. Preferably with the fur color being controlled by your character's hair color. Glowing eyes could indicate the morph.

Tommy_The_Gun

Greasytengu wrote: »

A new model. Preferably with the fur color being controlled by your character's hair color. Glowing eyes could indicate the morph.

My Argonian WW would be blue then...

Greasytengu

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

A new model. Preferably with the fur color being controlled by your character's hair color. Glowing eyes could indicate the morph.

My Argonian WW would be blue then...

I mean, why not! My argonian would be bright green

Ratzkifal

Now that health recovery is getting nerfed, the health recovery werewolves wearing Alessian and benefitting from that old 10k resistances are gone. I feel ZOS can now give them back the 10k resistances but maybe make it major resolve + 5k instead so that you can't use Chudan or a potion to get even more resistance. That might not be perfectly balanced yet, but it's somewhere in the middle from where we were and where we are now so I feel it's going to be an improvement regardless.

Lord_Nikon

I’d be happy if they gave us alternate were forms like tigers or bears.

Make bears a tanking alternative. Tigers as ranged magicka. Wolves could stay melee dps.

Maybe some sort of were bird for healer.

Just some thoughts.

Iccotak

They need a visual update that is for sure

SickleCider

No, vampires need the revamp.

Werewolves need a rewolf.

/slithers away

huskandhunger

Werewolf needs a remake, it has not aged well regrettably.

Memory_In_Motion

nerf sorc

TX12001rwb17_ESO

huskandhunger wrote: »

Werewolf needs a remake, it has not aged well regrettably.

Why did you necro a thread that was over a year old?

Mesite

Everytime something is revisited it doesn't turn out the way we think it will

TheGreatBlackBear

The best WW ever was when you didn't use and you just kept the ulti slotted for stam recovery.