Which crit value is used here? Skills that use the highest offensive stat. Eg Cauterize.

silver1surfer69

Which crit value is used here? Spell or weapon crit. My question is to be specific about the DK skill Cautarize but aplies to all skills that scale with the highest offensive value. My question is, is a skill that costs magicka but scales with the highest offensive stat, always using spell crit or the higher of the two. To be more specific, on the frontbar i have higher spell crit for slotting cautarize, but on the backbar my weapon crit is highr. Is cautarize while on the backbar using weapon crit, because it is higher here, or is a skill that costs magicka, even if it scales with the highest offensive stat, always using spell crit?


Cauterize tool tip text: (Cost: 2160 Magicka)

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at yourself or an ally to cauterize their wounds every 5 seconds, healing them for 6402 Health. While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy, increasing your Spell Critical rating by 2629. This ability scales with your highest offensive stats. Fireball heals allies instead of damaging enemies and increases the radius.

silver1surfer69

Ok i did test it now. Using a vamp skill that costs health and slotting fighters guild skill for wp crit.

I was running cauterize over 5:18 min with 63 hits. All hits were on backbar (checked it with showing wp swap in combat metrics).

Spell crit value (backbar): 13,7%
Weapon Crit Value backbar: 24,7%

->Cauterize crit hits: 32% (20/63)

=> That means im very sure Cauterize is using the highest crit value you have, that is in this case weapon crit. Please keep in mind that this testing could be wrong. Running this test over 10 or 15 min would be more accurate, but as conclusion i can say atm that Cauterize is using weapon crit if this is the higher value.

Vevvev

If it costs magicka or deals magic, fire, ice, or lightning it uses spell crit.

If it costs stamina or deals physical, poison, bleed, or disease it uses weapon crit.

If it costs health/ult but heals I'm going to assume it uses spell crit.

This means that Cauterize uses spell crit even when it scales off of the highest offensive stat.

silver1surfer69

Thank you very much for your answer. That sounds very reasonalble. Its exactly what my first thought was too. I want to make an addition to what you said. Ults scale with the highest offensive stats and im pretty sure that Ults use the higher of your two crit values. The reason i think this is because ults are designed (imo) to be used by both equaly, stam or mag users. Yes they do eg physical or magical damage, but other then that there is not much difference. In no-cp eg it doesnt make a difference (unless you wear a special set).
After some time thinking this through i tend now more to that this is also the case for skills that use the highest offensive stat. I want to point out, that it is quite possible that im wrong and you are right. I would love to see this tested. Maybe i will test it sometime. One way to test it, would be to do some fights (you need to loose health, so on dummy u would need loose health by some health costing skill eg). And compare combat metrics crit values. In my case i would need to stay on frontbar or backbar to compare.

silver1surfer69

Vevvev wrote: »

If it costs magicka or deals magic, fire, ice, or lightning it uses spell crit.

If it costs stamina or deals physical, poison, bleed, or disease it uses weapon crit.

If it costs health/ult but heals I'm going to assume it uses spell crit.

This means that Cauterize uses spell crit even when it scales off of the highest offensive stat.

That was my orinal answer, i forgot to quote you^^. I did test it now. See my post in this thread if you are interested. Thx again for your reply. Original answer:

Thank you very much for your answer. That sounds very reasonalble. Its exactly what my first thought was too. I want to make an addition to what you said. Ults scale with the highest offensive stats and im pretty sure that Ults use the higher of your two crit values. The reason i think this is because ults are designed (imo) to be used by both equaly, stam or mag users. Yes they do eg physical or magical damage, but other then that there is not much difference. In no-cp eg it doesnt make a difference (unless you wear a special set).
After some time thinking this through i tend now more to that this is also the case for skills that use the highest offensive stat. I want to point out, that it is quite possible that im wrong and you are right. I would love to see this tested. Maybe i will test it sometime. One way to test it, would be to do some fights (you need to loose health, so on dummy u would need loose health by some health costing skill eg). And compare combat metrics crit values. In my case i would need to stay on frontbar or backbar to compare.

MindOfTheSwarm

It depends on the damage type it inflicts that is all. Take Soul Trap, this will deal Physical or Magic Damage depending on the highest stat. As such it will crit based on your Weapon Crit if it deals Physical Damage or Spell Crit if it deals Magic Damage.
Another example is Dark Shade, this also scales with highest stat. However, it always deals Magic Damage. As such, it only crits based off Spell Crit. Cauterize always crits off Spell Crit too.

silver1surfer69

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

It depends on the damage type it inflicts that is all. Take Soul Trap, this will deal Physical or Magic Damage depending on the highest stat. As such it will crit based on your Weapon Crit if it deals Physical Damage or Spell Crit if it deals Magic Damage.
Another example is Dark Shade, this also scales with highest stat. However, it always deals Magic Damage. As such, it only crits based off Spell Crit. Cauterize always crits off Spell Crit too.

Thx for your answer. Thought this at first too. Testing showed different. See above.

Ippokrates

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

It depends on the damage type it inflicts that is all. Take Soul Trap, this will deal Physical or Magic Damage depending on the highest stat. As such it will crit based on your Weapon Crit if it deals Physical Damage or Spell Crit if it deals Magic Damage.
Another example is Dark Shade, this also scales with highest stat. However, it always deals Magic Damage. As such, it only crits based off Spell Crit. Cauterize always crits off Spell Crit too.

Thx for your answer. Thought this at first too. Testing showed different. See above.

Because rng sometimes gets really tricky. Tried it with Sload's set - the one that have 10% chance to cast pearls. In most fights I get none pearls, but during few longer fights hits reach even 30%

So you need really big sample of results to confirm which crit is being used. And increase difference between, cause 11% is too marginal.

WrathOfInnos

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Ok i did test it now. Using a vamp skill that costs health and slotting fighters guild skill for wp crit.

I was running cauterize over 5:18 min with 63 hits. All hits were on backbar (checked it with showing wp swap in combat metrics).

Spell crit value (backbar): 13,7%
Weapon Crit Value backbar: 24,7%

->Cauterize crit hits: 32% (20/63)

=> That means im very sure Cauterize is using the highest crit value you have, that is in this case weapon crit. Please keep in mind that this testing could be wrong. Running this test over 10 or 15 min would be more accurate, but as conclusion i can say atm that Cauterize is using weapon crit if this is the higher value.

Yep, anything that scales with highest stats will also choose the preferable weapon/spell crit. The only things you have to watch out for with scaling on these skills are champion points for martial/magical damage or status effects, and the fact that damage types remain coupled to their type of physical/spell penetration and use the enemy’s physical/spell resistance (no impact on cauterize since it is a heal, but does affect the flames of oblivion morph).

silver1surfer69

Ippokrates wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

It depends on the damage type it inflicts that is all. Take Soul Trap, this will deal Physical or Magic Damage depending on the highest stat. As such it will crit based on your Weapon Crit if it deals Physical Damage or Spell Crit if it deals Magic Damage.
Another example is Dark Shade, this also scales with highest stat. However, it always deals Magic Damage. As such, it only crits based off Spell Crit. Cauterize always crits off Spell Crit too.

Thx for your answer. Thought this at first too. Testing showed different. See above.

Because rng sometimes gets really tricky. Tried it with Sload's set - the one that have 10% chance to cast pearls. In most fights I get none pearls, but during few longer fights hits reach even 30%

So you need really big sample of results to confirm which crit is being used. And increase difference between, cause 11% is too marginal.

I generally agree. I can provide additional info for this: During my studies i also had statistics and in statistics usualy samples from 32 on are considered as being enough to deliver significant results. I had 63 samples in my test. So for now i take it as sufficient. Maybe i find the time to do the test longer, or somebody elso does it what would be great.

silver1surfer69

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Ok i did test it now. Using a vamp skill that costs health and slotting fighters guild skill for wp crit.

I was running cauterize over 5:18 min with 63 hits. All hits were on backbar (checked it with showing wp swap in combat metrics).

Spell crit value (backbar): 13,7%
Weapon Crit Value backbar: 24,7%

->Cauterize crit hits: 32% (20/63)

=> That means im very sure Cauterize is using the highest crit value you have, that is in this case weapon crit. Please keep in mind that this testing could be wrong. Running this test over 10 or 15 min would be more accurate, but as conclusion i can say atm that Cauterize is using weapon crit if this is the higher value.

Yep, anything that scales with highest stats will also choose the preferable weapon/spell crit. The only things you have to watch out for with scaling on these skills are champion points for martial/magical damage or status effects, and the fact that damage types remain coupled to their type of physical/spell penetration and use the enemy’s physical/spell resistance (no impact on cauterize since it is a heal, but does affect the flames of oblivion morph).

Thx for your answer. You are the first one to express this thought - which prooves, as it stands for now, given that my testing is correct - to be right.