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Does anyone know of GOOD Stamblade Bow/Bow PvE DD build with 0 melee skills?
Nyladreas
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Title.
I've spent an entire day looking for a really good ranged stamina build but people either incorporate some melee skills (no point even going bow then imho, besides it's not what I need), or the builds are way way WAY outdated. Others just don't hit any reasonable numbers.
I'm asking for a friend, because they're about to quit this game, since ranged bow playstyle is pretty much all they're interested in as far as PvE goes.
Everything's been fine for them so far, but I'd love to get them into vet raids where they're only getting PURE hate. And no they will not switch to a warden, cause they care about their main and what they've accomplished on it.
Edited by Nyladreas on May 3, 2021 8:14AM I've spent an entire day looking for a really good ranged stamina build but people either incorporate some melee skills (no point even going bow then imho, besides it's not what I need), or the builds are way way WAY outdated. Others just don't hit any reasonable numbers.
I'm asking for a friend, because they're about to quit this game, since ranged bow playstyle is pretty much all they're interested in as far as PvE goes.
Everything's been fine for them so far, but I'd love to get them into vet raids where they're only getting PURE hate. And no they will not switch to a warden, cause they care about their main and what they've accomplished on it.
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TochTom✭✭✭No, there isn't really such a thing for Nightblade because Killer's Blade exists. No one would want to give up one of the most potent executes in game.PC-EU | CP 2200+ | 52 590 Achievement Points | Salty Sorcerer | Altmer Sorcerer (Magicka) | AD | Former Empress, AW Rank 50 | Flawless Conqueror (602,803 Score | U22), Immortal Redeemer (114,473 Score | U24), Dro-m'Athra Destroyer U25, Gryphon Heart (130,902 Score | U25), Tick-Tock Tormentor (220,587 Score | U25), Godslayer (251,386 Score | U26), Kyne's Wrath (238,405 Score | U27), Unchained (106,377 Score | U27), Spirit Slayer (301,402 Score | U28)5 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is a melee game. Melee is where the buffs are. Melee is where the heals are. Melee is where the healer can see you. Melee is where you want the small trash mobs to follow you to, into AoEs. Running around behind far away is the last thing you can do to be useful to your teammates.
So generally I would never want to recommend a full ranged build especially since it means you will only actively use three class skills (relentless focus, shade, leeching strikes), but if they are going that way, I would recommend going for the strong points of bow builds, maelstrom bow backbar, brp bow frontbar, tzogvin for minor force and tons of crit, and rele for single target.
And then just make a rotation with the only proper skills available to you.
Precast shade+Hail+caltrops then acid spray for aoe (caltrops only from next patch)
Rotation using shade, hail, magnum shot, relentless and snipe for single target (can add soul trap if you need it for sustain). Bow Ultimate.1 -
PigofSteel✭✭✭✭ESO is a melee game. Melee is where the buffs are. Melee is where the heals are. Melee is where the healer can see you. Melee is where you want the small trash mobs to follow you to, into AoEs. Running around behind far away is the last thing you can do to be useful to your teammates.
So generally I would never want to recommend a full ranged build especially since it means you will only actively use three class skills (relentless focus, shade, leeching strikes), but if they are going that way, I would recommend going for the strong points of bow builds, maelstrom bow backbar, brp bow frontbar, tzogvin for minor force and tons of crit, and rele for single target.
And then just make a rotation with the only proper skills available to you.
Precast shade+Hail+caltrops then acid spray for aoe (caltrops only from next patch)
Rotation using shade, hail, magnum shot, relentless and snipe for single target (can add soul trap if you need it for sustain). Bow Ultimate.
Exactly eso simpy cant be ranged... Only in solo PvP...Edited by PigofSteel on May 3, 2021 9:21AM0 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭supersonic_kitten wrote: »
I hope you are not pulling my leg; I can't remember the last time a reasonably popular skill got a buff.0 -
ESO is a melee game. Melee is where the buffs are. Melee is where the heals are. Melee is where the healer can see you. Melee is where you want the small trash mobs to follow you to, into AoEs. Running around behind far away is the last thing you can do to be useful to your teammates.
Basically this. Some bosses in dungeons even have a mechanic where they would target a person standing too far away. In some cases (even base game like veteran Tempest Island for example), it's a one shot kill, and an extreme pain to recover. If you're running behind pew-pewing with a bow, I am sorry, but you are a liability to the group. To be effective in any role you kind of have to stay close.
And if you have to stay close, what's it matter if your bow-bow build has a couple of melee skills?
Edited by supersonic_kitten on May 3, 2021 9:08AM@supersonic_kitten PC EU0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame
They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone. 1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭supersonic_kitten wrote: »ESO is a melee game. Melee is where the buffs are. Melee is where the heals are. Melee is where the healer can see you. Melee is where you want the small trash mobs to follow you to, into AoEs. Running around behind far away is the last thing you can do to be useful to your teammates.
Basically this. Some bosses in dungeons even have a mechanic where they would target a person standing too far away. In some cases (even base game like veteran Tempest Island for example), it's a one shot kill, and an extreme pain to recover. If you're running behind pew-pewing with a bow, I am sorry, but you are a liability to the group. To be effective in any role you kind of have to stay close.
And if you have to stay close, what's it matter if your bow-bow build has a couple of melee skills?
I mean if it's as close as mag ranged DDs that's still fine. Just don't wanna be glued to the boss.0 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
The issue is that once you are grouped with 11 other people concessions have to be made 'for the greater good'.
More so when is a personal preference that not only does not bring anything to the table for the rest but is actually detrimental to the group.3 -
supersonic_kitten wrote: »ESO is a melee game. Melee is where the buffs are. Melee is where the heals are. Melee is where the healer can see you. Melee is where you want the small trash mobs to follow you to, into AoEs. Running around behind far away is the last thing you can do to be useful to your teammates.
Basically this. Some bosses in dungeons even have a mechanic where they would target a person standing too far away. In some cases (even base game like veteran Tempest Island for example), it's a one shot kill, and an extreme pain to recover. If you're running behind pew-pewing with a bow, I am sorry, but you are a liability to the group. To be effective in any role you kind of have to stay close.
And if you have to stay close, what's it matter if your bow-bow build has a couple of melee skills?
I mean if it's as close as mag ranged DDs that's still fine. Just don't wanna be glued to the boss.
Ranged mag dds also stick close to the boss, they just have an advantage of having ranged skills to still be able to continue hitting it if they are forced out of melee range (aoes, mechanics and what not)
2 edits because I suck at typing. x.xEdited by supersonic_kitten on May 3, 2021 9:18AM@supersonic_kitten PC EU0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
With practice I would probably hit 80k with the setup I described earlier.supersonic_kitten wrote: »ESO is a melee game. Melee is where the buffs are. Melee is where the heals are. Melee is where the healer can see you. Melee is where you want the small trash mobs to follow you to, into AoEs. Running around behind far away is the last thing you can do to be useful to your teammates.
Basically this. Some bosses in dungeons even have a mechanic where they would target a person standing too far away. In some cases (even base game like veteran Tempest Island for example), it's a one shot kill, and an extreme pain to recover. If you're running behind pew-pewing with a bow, I am sorry, but you are a liability to the group. To be effective in any role you kind of have to stay close.
And if you have to stay close, what's it matter if your bow-bow build has a couple of melee skills?
I mean if it's as close as mag ranged DDs that's still fine. Just don't wanna be glued to the boss.
This. Is. Exactly. The problem. Lots of lots of lots of mechanics are about being melee. Let's talk about the mask dungeon this month:
1st boss: if you are not glued to the boss, he jumps around and kills allies.
2nd boss: during his fire pew pew, if dds don't stand relatively close, healer needs to babysit them both instead of focusing on aoe heals.
3rd boss: talking about this over nerfed guy makes me sad. But in his older version closer to the boss meant less travel time to escape the lasers.
4th boss: need to be melee to interrupt
5th boss: there is not enough space on the platform to consider anything there as ranged.
You are talking a lot about how "no viable ranged builds for endgame because of damage output" while in reality damage is not the issue, vCR, vSS, vMoL vSO all have mechanics which are forcing people to be melee. (You could theoretically take on the kiter role from the healer in vCR though).
So even with mostly ranged builds, they are aware that they will be forced to melee, so they build around the strong melee skills, so they can take advantage of that when it comes to it.Edited by zvavi on May 3, 2021 9:22AM4 -
Nezyr_Jezz✭✭✭Sorry but you can't build fully ranged bow/bow. Your execute is melee range.
If you want to have fully bow/bow ranged build go stamina warden with tzogwyn (minor force) thus you will not have to slot barbed trap or channeled acceleration :P0 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, he can play as he wants if he finds other people who want to play that way. The build zvavi mentioned with tzogvin, rele and arena bows will have more than enough damage to complete raid hardmodes.So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
But if he simply forces groups (and especially healers) to play different, just so he can play the way he likes, then it's not too surprising that they don't like him.
Keep in mind that many heals and buffs are ground targeted or directional aoes and that a number of bosses have mechanics that target the person furthest away, which is usually dealt with by one of the healers. So if he wants to move around and be further away from the boss than the healer, make sure the group is aware of that and adjusts their strategies to it.1 -
oterWitz✭✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
This gave me enough pause that I actually logged back into my forums account for the first time since returning to the game
Overall, I think that this game does a pretty decent job at being "play as you want" 96% of the time. The final four percent is solo and group instances of PvP and PvE high-tier endgame content and that is the part that gives ZOS no end of trouble with constantly balancing the meta and trying to make a "play as you want" mentality work there too.
Your posts describe wanting to take your friend into vet trials, which are nearing the 4% exception but don't actually hit it unless you also want to push for leaderboard scores. I would say that with an accommodating group/raid leader your friend could be a ranged stam dps as long as they recognize the points that others have posted about being able to flex into melee range as well as practice their setup enough to pull the kind of dps a vet trial requires. Again, we're talking about PvE endgame, and there is a lot more to this game than vet trials.
With that in mind, I would seek out some open-minded raid leaders and ask them for build advice to see what would work in their particular group. Demonstrating with @zvavi 's build ideas could help show your eagerness to make this ranged build work (with the possible addition of adding the vateshran bow on bosses with melee mechanics, though I could be wrong).PC NA0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You could use something like BRP bow front/MA bow back with Relequen/Tzogvin's, so that you would avoid coming in close to cast trap, since you want to always be ranged.0 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Nyladreas
AS @zvavi said earlier, you should be able to get 60k zo 80k with a setup like that.
While mechanics are the true reason while people will tell you to go melee, most will still treat you like you are a lesser DPS. Or your friend...
Do NOT listen to them!
BowBow Nightblade is the best ranged build I have played and it is strong, if you watch your range. Stay close to the Healer and use that 15 to 20 meters as best you can. You can throw in a quick Twisting/Refreshing Path to get to melee range and back, if you need to for mechanics.
Just build for high weapon damage (Fighters guild abilities) and focus on LA weaving. If you are using Snipe, you should consider Deadly Strike with Tzogvin and maybe two crit chance one pieces for head and shoulders, instead of the usual Relequen setup. On my Khajiit StamBlade Snipe can crit for well over 45k in four out of five times. This is what I like to play and I hit a 65K parse with it. But I am a bad weaver. So there is that.
Or BRP Bow if you opt for Magnum as spamable, but it is costlier, so watch your sustain.
Other than that you can find reasonable social guilds, that will run normal Trials with anyone and/or will accept you in Vets with as little as 50K DPS. The fights will be longer, but who cares as long as you don't wipe? Dead DPS is no DPS. Melee or ranged!No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!0 -
RandomKodiak✭✭✭✭✭@Nyladreas Sent you a private message. Bow/bow can pull good numbers if you know what you are doing. The biggest problem right now is stamina is not wanted by most "high end " trial groups because the tanks have to gear specifically for it these days because it is so far behind magicka on penetration. That being said many mixed mis range groups will let stamina in but still don't like bow/bow because of the number of people who seem to think they have to sit a mile away and just light attack. With the right gear and skills bow/bow can pull some great numbers but it does take work. My stamsorc bow/bow main can pull 75k in running gear and skills against the 21 mil dummy and with cheese skills and gear (like most of the video's out there) can pull about 90k this patch. Your friend just needs to find what works for them and work at it. Hope what I sent you helps them to start.0
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Brenticus12✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
You can play 90% of the game how you want. Once you go into endgame, you have to start thinkng about optimising. The only reason to play stamblade is for the execute damage and killer's blade is a melee ranged ability.
If you want a pure ranged bow classs, play stamden or even stamcro (Although 3-BB rotations are noticeably worse than 2-BB rotation).
The game can be played how you want, but what you're asking for is for anything to be viable which is not possible in any game ever. It just happens to be that stamblade has a melee attack that is the crux of their builds, bow or not, so not using it makes you a liability.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Or BRP Bow if you opt for Magnum as spamable, but it is costlier, so watch your sustain.
Don't spread misinformation, brp bow let's your magnum shot become a DoT, the strongest dot in game even, so using it as a spammable is literally negating the bonus from BRP bow.Edited by zvavi on May 3, 2021 11:37AM1 -
Jeirno✭✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
Ye you can play however you want, are you gonna do good damage while doing it? No. Are you going the carried in the group? Most likely yes. Will people tell you to play a proper build in ENDGAME pve? Yes.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »
How about Silver Shards for spammable?
I will be honest with you, I didn't test much for bow bow builds, and not at all for aoe (mag is more fun to me), silver shard might be a good spammable, but don't forget your acid spray applies a small dot and has increased damage from bow passives.Edited by zvavi on May 3, 2021 12:09PM0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As others have said. But when you mentioned "high endgame" I've became unsure. If the person is glued to one class and spec it's unlikely they'll manage to get there (would require special kind of group for trifectas, scorepushing is out of the talk). Groups prefer flexible new additions that at the very least able to go from stam to mag and back when needed. Not even talking having multiple setups for different raids, trash, support specs etc. The only way to stay with one build and theme is to form the group yourself with close friends to progress.0 -
Michaelkeir✭✭✭✭✭So basically I should tell my friend that they're never going to make High endgame with a ranged bow build? What a shame They thought the game was advertised as play the way you want. Thanks everyone.
And that’s the thing. The devs have stated several times that you can “play as you want”. But they never said you’d do well at those things. So in truth he can play a bow/bow stamblade if he wanted too, just don’t expect to pull top numbers. I had to learn this myself when I wanted to run a Ranger build (bow/bow stam warden).
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tyggerbob✭✭✭✭No one has mentioned Point-Blank Snipe (the Vateshran bow).. It's designed for close combat but using a bow
(2 items) Increases your damage done with Snipe based on how close you are to your target. Max Damage: 33% at 3 meters. Minimum Damage: 5% at 18.5 meters.
There's also the asylum bow from AS that removes 6600 resistance from your targets for 10 seconds for other bow attacks.
With the passives still focusing on range, the bow is still not optimal up close, but it does help improve that a bit.
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Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »As others have said. But when you mentioned "high endgame" I've became unsure. If the person is glued to one class and spec it's unlikely they'll manage to get there (would require special kind of group for trifectas, scorepushing is out of the talk). Groups prefer flexible new additions that at the very least able to go from stam to mag and back when needed. Not even talking having multiple setups for different raids, trash, support specs etc. The only way to stay with one build and theme is to form the group yourself with close friends to progress.
Not Focusing on progression... Just able to get vets cleared is what I meant 0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »As others have said. But when you mentioned "high endgame" I've became unsure. If the person is glued to one class and spec it's unlikely they'll manage to get there (would require special kind of group for trifectas, scorepushing is out of the talk). Groups prefer flexible new additions that at the very least able to go from stam to mag and back when needed. Not even talking having multiple setups for different raids, trash, support specs etc. The only way to stay with one build and theme is to form the group yourself with close friends to progress.
Not Focusing on progression... Just able to get vets cleared is what I meant
Definitely possible. Non HM is much easier and lets you have much more freedom towards what you want to do. All is left is the player using the character.0