VIGOR needs a Magicka morph

ksbrugh

I'm sure I'm not alone here.
Some magic glasses suffer from not having a decent self-heal nb for one.
I think an equal vigor using Magicka would be helpful to all magic class based toons especially for newer toons and people just starting the game. I know it's a New concept but give it a three morph option keep the two existing morphs just add a magic morph.

rumple9

Why waste precious mag resources on a heal when you can use stam?

amm7sb14_ESO

I disagree. Your example of the Nightblade has the sap ability for magicka self heals, and a 3 morph ability means they are going to have to take dev time to do that for all abilities. I feel that their efforts could be better used elsewhere than to provide a morph for something classes already have an abundance of access to.

Bucky_13

3 morphs is extremely unlikely to happen, although that would be nice for a lot of skills.

Having vigor cost stam but scale based on your highest stat, like soul splitting trap does for example, would be an interesting solution.

furiouslog

DW also needs some magicka morphs, since it's now apparently BIS for any mag melee range class.

ksbrugh

Bucky_13 wrote: »

3 morphs is extremely unlikely to happen, although that would be nice for a lot of skills.

Having vigor cost stam but scale based on your highest stat, like soul splitting trap does for example, would be an interesting solution.

Yes work off highest stat. Great solution

VaranisArano

Most magicka classes have self-healing options, plus an entire skill line dedicated to healing if they use a resto staff.

Vigor is what it is because most stamina builds have no class stamina self-heals at all. And it used to be considerably harder to get than rank 1 PVP (aka do the Cyrodiil tutorial).

I'm not necessarily opposed to offering a generic magicka self heal that's open to everyone, but I'm not sure that ZOS wants to overstep options like the whole Resto Staff skill line, Orbs from Undaunted, Meditate from Psijic Order, or Cleanse from the Alliance War skill line.

rabidmyers

rapid regeneration

Vevvev

With the amount of magicka based heals in this game, and there being a magicka equivalent in the resto staff line, why would we take options away from stamina players? ZOS refuses to add additional morphs so we're limited to two. Vigor has a short burst and a long drawn out heal over time. It'd be silly to change it right now.

Sealish

ksbrugh wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

3 morphs is extremely unlikely to happen, although that would be nice for a lot of skills.

Having vigor cost stam but scale based on your highest stat, like soul splitting trap does for example, would be an interesting solution.

Yes work off highest stat. Great solution

I wish more things in general did this. Like most any skill that has a Magicka/Stamina morph.

Then again, I am in favor of consolidating Crit/Pen/Damage into one set of stats that effect Magic AND Physical and then having all damage/healing scale to the highest of your two pools while keeping the costs for either magicka or stamina the same as they are now. This would open up way more build possibilities, allow you to choose Light/Med armour based upon your specific build needs rather than just Mag/Stam, allow viable hybrid builds, and really just embrace the whole Elder Scrolls mentality of "Make YOUR unique character with gear unrestricted by class."

So yeah... I am in favor of Vigor scaling off highest stat and still costing Stamina. That's what they did for the Templar Ground Based Heal.

jaws343

rabid64 wrote: »

rapid regeneration

If rapid regen only healed yourself, sure it would be a great skill compared to vigor. But it heals you or someone else, so getting reliable heals from it when you are not alone is not often going to happen.

LettuceBrain

ksbrugh wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Your example of the Nightblade has the sap ability for magicka self heals, and a 3 morph ability means they are going to have to take dev time to do that for all abilities. I feel that their efforts could be better used elsewhere than to provide a morph for something classes already have an abundance of access to.

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You can't state your opinion and expect people not to disagree, just saying. IMO there are other healing options. Many mag builds already have good self healing anyway.

AlnilamE

ksbrugh wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ksbrugh wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Your example of the Nightblade has the sap ability for magicka self heals, and a 3 morph ability means they are going to have to take dev time to do that for all abilities. I feel that their efforts could be better used elsewhere than to provide a morph for something classes already have an abundance of access to.

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

Magblade here. We have enough heals, and can always wield a resto staff if needed.

Sanctum74

VaranisArano wrote: »

Most magicka classes have self-healing options, plus an entire skill line dedicated to healing if they use a resto staff.

Vigor is what it is because most stamina builds have no class stamina self-heals at all. And it used to be considerably harder to get than rank 1 PVP (aka do the Cyrodiil tutorial).

I'm not necessarily opposed to offering a generic magicka self heal that's open to everyone, but I'm not sure that ZOS wants to overstep options like the whole Resto Staff skill line, Orbs from Undaunted, Meditate from Psijic Order, or Cleanse from the Alliance War skill line.

And even with all those heal options you need a resto staff and even then you’re still not guaranteed that the heal will go to you while you’re fighting out numbered on the flag and instead heals the guy spamming light attacks upstairs.

Changing vigor is unlikely, but I wouldn’t mind if regen followed the same principle for morphs. 1 being a strong solo heal and the other a weaker multi heal.

Kidgangster101

Bucky_13 wrote: »

3 morphs is extremely unlikely to happen, although that would be nice for a lot of skills.

Having vigor cost stam but scale based on your highest stat, like soul splitting trap does for example, would be an interesting solution.

It creates a huge prob in pvp using the stam pool as a magic caster. The stam pool is so small you rely on it for breakout. So if you cast vigor then get cc and break out you prob have no stam and your dead.

If it were reverse that it took magic but went off your highest stat that would be better. But using stam as a caster is just terrible in pvp.

ZOS_ConnorG

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Bucky_13

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

3 morphs is extremely unlikely to happen, although that would be nice for a lot of skills.

Having vigor cost stam but scale based on your highest stat, like soul splitting trap does for example, would be an interesting solution.

It creates a huge prob in pvp using the stam pool as a magic caster. The stam pool is so small you rely on it for breakout. So if you cast vigor then get cc and break out you prob have no stam and your dead.

If it were reverse that it took magic but went off your highest stat that would be better. But using stam as a caster is just terrible in pvp.

Vigor using mag would be a hard no for me, my stamblades needs a good heal and vigor is that one. In that case it'd be better to rework a resto staff skill or something else. My PvP magsorc has a pretty decent amount of stam tho, since I do like to dodge even on mag classes. It's a matter of managing your stats, and I wouldn't mind using Vigor on my magsorc or magden if it scaled of max mag and/or spell dmg for those characters.

YandereGirlfriend

I would definitely support a Max Stats scaling implementation of Vigor.

Lots of Stamina players saying, "But the Resto Staff..." without realizing that it locks you into a particular weapon type in order to get a non-class-based heal (e.g. what if I wanted to use Sword and Board on a magBlade... that's basically impossible if you actually want the ability to heal youself). Meanwhile, Stamina can slot literally any weapon that they please (well, really only 2H but that's more a matter of 2H being comparatively OP versus DW).

Further, Rapid Regeneration is, frankly, an awful skill since there is no protection whatsoever that the caster is actually the one who receives the heal. Imagine if some random PUG could steal your Vigor cast - Stamina players would throw a fit.

Easy change: Rapid Regeneration is a self-heal only. It still locks you into using a Resto Staff but at least you can actually count on receiving your heal when you cast it.

Malkiv

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Easy change: Rapid Regeneration is a self-heal only. It still locks you into using a Resto Staff but at least you can actually count on receiving your heal when you cast it.

I 100% support this change. Keep Radiating Regeneration as-is with Rapid being a self-heal.

Jeremy

Malkiv wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Easy change: Rapid Regeneration is a self-heal only. It still locks you into using a Resto Staff but at least you can actually count on receiving your heal when you cast it.

I 100% support this change. Keep Radiating Regeneration as-is with Rapid being a self-heal.

I would prefer not. I use Rapid Regeneration as my main heal to heal other players (especially DPS) since it doesn't have any stupid LoS requirement on it (which is not feasible on this game).

A better solution would be to make it always heal yourself and one other player. Because if they made rapid generation self only I would quit playing healer on this game.

Anonx31st

There needs to be less healing in this game from DPS and Tanks not more. Healers should be more dependent in an MMO that uses the holy trinity, not less.

Malkiv

Jeremy wrote: »

Malkiv wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Easy change: Rapid Regeneration is a self-heal only. It still locks you into using a Resto Staff but at least you can actually count on receiving your heal when you cast it.

I 100% support this change. Keep Radiating Regeneration as-is with Rapid being a self-heal.

I would prefer not. I use Rapid Regeneration as my main heal to heal other players (especially DPS) since it doesn't have any stupid LoS requirement on it (which is not feasible on this game).

A better solution would be to make it always heal yourself and one other player. Because if they made rapid generation self only I would quit playing healer on this game.

Radiating Regeneration is the morph that heals multiple targets without LOS requirement. Rapid Regeneration is the morph that does a single, fast HOT. Using Rapid Regeneration in pve is risky because sometimes it can only target yourself.

GreenHere

I think that everyone should have access to a 10+ second self-only Heal Over Time that doesn't require targeting an enemy or using a specific weapon type. It's just such a basic thing. Plenty of Magicka skills are kind of close to Vigor, but fall short because they either require a certain weapon, or have a too-short duration to be useful during fighting, or preclude using other skill morphs, or require an enemy to target, et cetera, et cetera.

The closest thing to Vigor that I can think of is the healing morph of the Undaunted orb; but even that is a tough sell since you have to give up being able to slot the damaging morph (which is very good!) and you also need to stay in range of it to get the healing (which isn't always practical).

Morphs for my hypothetical MagVigor skill would be: A slightly weaker version that can hit others in addition to yourself in a certain radius, and a version that lasts longer (say ~30 seconds) but only ticks every third second instead of every second. This way all three versions of the skill have their niche. (Personally I've always thought it's kind of a waste that base skills are universally useless one you unlock their morphs; why can't the base skill be a viable choice, huh?)

Anonx31st

This game isn't meant for DPS and Tanks to solo dungeons with self heals to replace healers, which is already happening in random dungeon normals. This is an MMO.

VaranisArano

Anonx31st wrote: »

This game isn't meant for DPS and Tanks to solo dungeons with self heals to replace healers, which is already happening in random dungeon normals. This is an MMO.

No, but the game WAS intended for players to be able to PVP without a healer in their group.

Unless you'd like to suggest that Battlegrohnds needs to have role requirements, that no one should play solo in Cyrodiil, or hope that maybe this time the Devs will finally decide to balance PVP and PVE separately?

That's why Vigor exists and why it was in the PVP Alliance War skill line, instead of the Undaunted. Because PVP is the one place where a stamina player is going to need self-heals and can reasonably expect to find themselves without a magicka-based healer in the group. (Magicka players typically get their on-demand heals from their class skills.)

ZOS upended that when they made Vigor easier to get. That was done according to demand of PVE-only players who wanted Vigor for harder end game content, but didn't want to PVP for it.


It doesn't really matter anyway, since the game is also intended for brand new players to solo Chapter content and Arenas, where again, they can reasonably be expected not to have a dedicated healer in their group. So good luck persuading ZOS to remove self-heals. I don't think that's the Devs' plan.

notyuu

as soon as we get stam rapid regen, sure.

GreenHere

Anonx31st wrote: »

This game isn't meant for DPS and Tanks to solo dungeons with self heals to replace healers, which is already happening in random dungeon normals. This is an MMO.

Okay, but what about solo Arenas or small scale PvP? Or other instances where the game literally forces you to do things alone?

I disagree with your position of "people shouldn't have decent self heals so that they need to rely on healers" in the first place, but even putting that aside surely we can agree that there are some cases at least where mag setups having equal access to a Vigor-like skill would be useful, right?

I mean, Vigor already exists for stam setups; you don't think that skill should be removed from the game... do you?

Anonx31st

GreenHere wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

This game isn't meant for DPS and Tanks to solo dungeons with self heals to replace healers, which is already happening in random dungeon normals. This is an MMO.

Okay, but what about solo Arenas or small scale PvP? Or other instances where the game literally forces you to do things alone?

I disagree with your position of "people shouldn't have decent self heals so that they need to rely on healers" in the first place, but even putting that aside surely we can agree that there are some cases at least where mag setups having equal access to a Vigor-like skill would be useful, right?

I mean, Vigor already exists for stam setups; you don't think that skill should be removed from the game... do you?

No I think more healing skills for this game from non-healer roles shouldn't be created.

brassmaster12

Honestly.... I'd love to see Skills get a big rework. Always have a "magicka and Stamina morph of every skill. But that would be boring just making the morphs magicka or Stamina. Maybe this is where spellcrafting could come in? (maybe change it skillcrafting?) after choosing your morph, you then get to flesh it out more with skill crafting, choosing what kind of damage it does. Aka flame, frost, Poison, physical etc. Then you can flesh it out more by expanding radius, Duration, other cool effects etc etc

GreenHere

Anonx31st wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

This game isn't meant for DPS and Tanks to solo dungeons with self heals to replace healers, which is already happening in random dungeon normals. This is an MMO.

Okay, but what about solo Arenas or small scale PvP? Or other instances where the game literally forces you to do things alone?

I disagree with your position of "people shouldn't have decent self heals so that they need to rely on healers" in the first place, but even putting that aside surely we can agree that there are some cases at least where mag setups having equal access to a Vigor-like skill would be useful, right?

I mean, Vigor already exists for stam setups; you don't think that skill should be removed from the game... do you?

No I think more healing skills for this game from non-healer roles shouldn't be created.

Fair enough. Magicka does have a lot of healing skills at its disposal already, I suppose.

Still, Vigor is mechanically the best healing skill around, in my book. No target required, no weapon dictated, no positioning constraints, long enough duration it keep up 100% while still fighting effectively, guaranteed to be healing yourself with it no matter what, no real downsides of any kind. I'm jealous, honestly. :P

LettuceBrain

brassmaster12 wrote: »

Honestly.... I'd love to see Skills get a big rework. Always have a "magicka and Stamina morph of every skill. But that would be boring just making the morphs magicka or Stamina. Maybe this is where spellcrafting could come in? (maybe change it skillcrafting?) after choosing your morph, you then get to flesh it out more with skill crafting, choosing what kind of damage it does. Aka flame, frost, Poison, physical etc. Then you can flesh it out more by expanding radius, Duration, other cool effects etc etc

I like it how it is and from what I have heard from others on the forum, spellcrafting is not happening.