Do you like the way you are managed in this Forum?

Mahabahabtha

It seems to me, that TOO HARSH Statements against the Company are going very fast into the "Deleted" Limbo..
Is taht OK for you ?

OutLaw_Nynx

This is gonna be locked

Mahabahabtha

NO

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

This is gonna be locked

Why ? ;-) And than you for your saying !

GlorphNoldorin

NO

Fully agree

FrancisCrawford

I don't think all moderator hiring decisions have been equally good.

Bradyfjord

OK

I've never received any sort of trouble from moderators. I do notice that they kill necro threads, farewell threads, and derailed threads quickly.

Mahabahabtha

NO

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't think all moderator hiring decisions have been equally good.

THATS a Point...:-)

Mahabahabtha

NO

Bradyfjord wrote: »

I've never received any sort of trouble from moderators. I do notice that they kill necro threads, farewell threads, and derailed threads quickly.

But reccently they are deleting posts, and posts who are regarding to that deleted posts are going into that digital Nirvana..

jaws343

OK

This is a private forum, they can clean it up as they see fit.

Mahabahabtha

NO

I AM DIRTY, ZOS, YOU PLEASE WASH ME CLEAN ?

Watchdog

OK

Bradyfjord wrote: »

I've never received any sort of trouble from moderators. I do notice that they kill necro threads, farewell threads, and derailed threads quickly.

What? Do you mean they are doing what they are supposed to do in the middle of this bag full of fleas biting left and right?

*surprised pikachu face*

SeaGtGruff

OK

I think the wording of your first sentence explains what the real issue is:

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

TOO HARSH Statements against the Company

It is one thing to criticize something about the game, and do it in a manner that's level-headed and constructive.

It's quite another thing to get so impassioned or agitated about something that you make "TOO HARSH Statements" which are aimed at "the Company" and its employees rather than at specific things about the game.

To put it another way, it's like the difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion versus attacking them personally for having an opinion you disagree with. Attacking the company rather than criticizing the game is essentially taking it to a personal level, even if you're attacking an organization rather than a specific individual.

Sylvermynx

OK

I've had my lumps - brought on entirely by myself. The moderators are here to do a job, and expecting them to ignore derogatory posts about the devs or management or other people who post here is asking for the moon.

This forum is FAR better managed than WoW's ever was....

SirAndy

NO

One time a moderator here told me (after i had gotten a warning for saying something i probably shouldn't have) that i had way too many ZOS messages in my inbox already and he was considering to ban me.

I then pointed out to him that the majority of those ZOS messages were from actual developers during the in-house beta back when one could still talk to some of the devs.

Turns out the mod never even looked at any of those messages and just assumed they were all from forum violations.

Starlight_Whisper

O.o you aren't supposed to talk about moderation though...

Wolfpaw

NO

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

O.o you aren't supposed to talk about moderation though...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJVGD6eTZ7g

Anonx31st

I believe any bashing against a company on their own forums should be deleted. The moderators are doing a great job imo.

heaven13

NO

Anonx31st wrote: »

I believe any bashing against a company on their own forums should be deleted. The moderators are doing a great job imo.

There's a difference between bashing and talking about legitimate concerns re: development. Saying "I don't agree with x or y decision, this is why" with actual in-game examples or player perception is not the same as "dev john doe sucks completely and should be fired" or "dev jane smith only got her job because of ____ and is completely unqualified". The latter is slander/bashing. The former is not. It's a difference that some apparently can't distinguish.

Anonx31st

heaven13 wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

I believe any bashing against a company on their own forums should be deleted. The moderators are doing a great job imo.

There's a difference between bashing and talking about legitimate concerns re: development. Saying "I don't agree with x or y decision, this is why" with actual in-game examples or player perception is not the same as "dev john doe sucks completely and should be fired" or "dev jane smith only got her job because of ____ and is completely unqualified". The latter is slander/bashing. The former is not. It's a difference that some apparently can't distinguish.

Of course there is, however, not everyone who posts negatively about ZOS on these forums are doing the latter. Hence why the mods are deleting those threads. If people posted constructive criticism instead of destructive, then this forum post wouldn't of even need to be created.

Jeremy

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

This is gonna be locked

Why ? ;-) And than you for your saying !

Because of the way the forum is managed. haha

You can't talk about their moderation. But yes, this forum is very strict. It's a good idea to go over every comment at least 3 times and remove anything that could possibly be perceived as not nice.

Nastassiya

OK

This is a private forum on a host that is owned by Microsoft/ZOE. They have the right to moderate it as they wish and free speech does not exist. Personally, I feel they are doing a good job with moderation.

Destai

NO

I think there's a lot of valid criticism aimed at the company right now and it's in their interest to hear and act on it. We have feedback loops for technical input and we rely on them to do our part of making this game the best it can be. It's expected people are going to voice their opinions when community management gets in way of that process working properly.

Let's lay out how the latest fiasco unfolded:

1. A console patch was launched and immediately after, players found issues that break core gameplay. Some of these issues (Craft bag) are a core part of the ESO+ offering.
2. No confirmation was given as to what testing was done on this.
3. Console players are particularly sensitive due to the last few patches being troublesome, with one requiring an extended maintenance window and a letter from leadership. The quality of said letter is what's expected from CM's regularly.
4. Players asked for updates as the issues carried on over a week, with only one confirmation that it had been received. No further updates progress or timeline expectations were given on the two applicable threads.
5. A German CM provided a more eloquent response, albeit in German, and actually demonstrated a fair amount of candor in the matter. It was refreshing to see Kai defend themselves and engage in actual conversation on a sensitive issue. If only we could get the same from Gina and others.
6. Players voiced criticism - incredibly valid - that Gina and Adrikoth were not providing us updates of similar quality in English. If Kai could provide one in German, why couldn't they provide one in English?

At the end of the day, people reached out to Gina and her team and received no response. That's on her (and her team). That problem is specifically on her and she's warranted criticism for it. If she couldn't respond, then someone else should have. Just like Kai did.

Is it unrealistic to expect Gina or whomever to update us daily? Of course it is, and those players were out of line. But I don't think it's unrealistic for her or anyone else on her team to respond after a week, especially when we pay by the month to access things like craft bag.

I think overall people like @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker and the others do a lot of great work and are unfortunately the face of ZOS when things don't go well. The patch notes (natch potes, too) always contain a lot of good information and I'm sure that requires a lot of coordination to put together. Along with organizing PTS and other feedback, they have their hands full. I don't blame them personally for not giving us an update, but as a company there's needs that are not being addressed. No amount of moderation will do more for the game and its community than actual community engagement. More dialogue will result in less toxicity.

kargen27

To answer the title I received one warning a while back and wasn't really surprised. I knew when I posted I was treading on thin ice.

Answering the OP question I don't think they are heavy handed with what they remove. More often than not it is because the topic is already being discussed elsewhere.

spartaxoxo

OK

Voted this because of polling bias. In truth, I have mixed feelings. There are some positive things and some negative things.

SeaGtGruff

OK

heaven13 wrote: »

There's a difference between bashing and talking about legitimate concerns re: development. [...] It's a difference that some apparently can't distinguish.

It's a difference that apparently some posters can't distinguish. Bashing is bashing, whether it's bashing an individual or the entire company. Heck, bashing the game is bashing. You can talk about legitimate concerns regarding development without doing it in a manner that bashes anyone or anything.

It isn't the target or subject of a comment that determines whether it's "bashing"; it's the tone.

The OP suggested that "TOO HARSH Statements" were being deleted. What part of "TOO HARSH Statements" doesn't sound like "bashing"?

Starlock

NO

jaws343 wrote: »

This is a private forum, they can clean it up as they see fit.

This is a very important point. That said, how a forum is run does also say something about its priorities. I have years of direct experience running and moderating web forums, so I have more insight into the process than most. To add, this experience is also with a much more tightly moderated web forum than many users of the internet are accustomed to, so it is somewhat more comparable to the environment here.

But only somewhat. If nothing else, this place has familiarized me with the problems of a corporate run web forum. The forum I help run is centered on building community, so things are run very differently. Admins and moderators post like regular members of the community, for one. We engage with people on discussions. Mod posts are rare, as are thread lockdowns; we don't like censoring free expression. Members have a transparent system of warnings escalation and are coached to help them improve if they break one of the rules. We've also helped members in crisis multiple times and are patient with folks who have mental illnesses, addictions, and all that. In short, we treat people like people, I guess?

Here? It's very corporate. Which is to say, it's cold. I'm sure the folks who do the work are nice folks, but constrained by the rules they have to follow from corporate, well... they gotta do what they gotta do. So I sympathize with them, I guess. This place is run under a very different agenda. That's fair enough, really, but it's pretty darned frustrating from a user standpoint. Being over-moderated certainly contributed to my disdain of the game. It's one thing to feel like your voice isn't being heard, and it's entirely something else to have your voice straight up silenced, you know?

Destai

NO

Starlock wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

This is a private forum, they can clean it up as they see fit.

This is a very important point. That said, how a forum is run does also say something about its priorities. I have years of direct experience running and moderating web forums, so I have more insight into the process than most. To add, this experience is also with a much more tightly moderated web forum than many users of the internet are accustomed to, so it is somewhat more comparable to the environment here.

But only somewhat. If nothing else, this place has familiarized me with the problems of a corporate run web forum. The forum I help run is centered on building community, so things are run very differently. Admins and moderators post like regular members of the community, for one. We engage with people on discussions. Mod posts are rare, as are thread lockdowns; we don't like censoring free expression. Members have a transparent system of warnings escalation and are coached to help them improve if they break one of the rules. We've also helped members in crisis multiple times and are patient with folks who have mental illnesses, addictions, and all that. In short, we treat people like people, I guess?

Here? It's very corporate. Which is to say, it's cold. I'm sure the folks who do the work are nice folks, but constrained by the rules they have to follow from corporate, well... they gotta do what they gotta do. So I sympathize with them, I guess. This place is run under a very different agenda. That's fair enough, really, but it's pretty darned frustrating from a user standpoint. Being over-moderated certainly contributed to my disdain of the game. It's one thing to feel like your voice isn't being heard, and it's entirely something else to have your voice straight up silenced, you know?

Excellent post, bolded for emphasis. I want to feel like Gina and team are real people. I want to feel like Gina team play the game, get pissed off when it's broke, and try to keep us in the loop. I think that's all most reasonable people are asking for here.

Anonx31st

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

There's a difference between bashing and talking about legitimate concerns re: development. [...] It's a difference that some apparently can't distinguish.

It's a difference that apparently some posters can't distinguish. Bashing is bashing, whether it's bashing an individual or the entire company. Heck, bashing the game is bashing. You can talk about legitimate concerns regarding development without doing it in a manner that bashes anyone or anything.

It isn't the target or subject of a comment that determines whether it's "bashing"; it's the tone.

The OP suggested that "TOO HARSH Statements" were being deleted. What part of "TOO HARSH Statements" doesn't sound like "bashing"?

I 100% agree with this. What a great response. Additionally, "TOO HARSH" does sound like bashing to me as well.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After review, we have decided to close this thread given the topic, Discussing Disciplinary Actions, is a violation of the Community Guidelines, and is stated as follows:

• Discussing Disciplinary Actions: If you ever have questions or concerns about a disciplinary action or decision we have made on the ESO forums, or wish to appeal a forum warning or infraction you’ve received, we ask that you please contact https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/ to do so (please specify that you are contacting about a forum-related inquiry or appeal). We are happy to discuss and review specific moderation-related actions with you, but we do not allow discussion of any moderation actions or decisions on our forums. If you have questions or concerns about an in-game disciplinary action, please contact https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/ to ask about a suspension or ban, and any other support-related feedback. We cannot assist with in-game violations on the forums.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-