I want the Original Coldharbour Intro Tutorial

Athan1

This tutorial is extremely essential for the entire ESO experience, it is the only place where you get super basic explanations about core mechanics like what skyshards are and why you collect them, the fact that you are DEAD/ a daedra, and that's how you can use wayshrines or revive, or why you have the soul magic skill line (you used to get it upon clearing the tutorial, now you just automatically unlock it for no reason). It also explains why you lack a soul, something that many make note of, since several things that would affect mortals don't work you.

Without clearing this tutorial the game makes little sense. By making it optional any continuity in this game is broken, adding to the huge mess this game has become with all the dlc added over the years, that move away from the original storylines. Now you're just a mortal that collects skyshards for no apparent reason.

Plus it's perhaps the only real cinematic in the game, a great way to start the game.

Riptide

I played through it so many countless times during the early beta that I don’t miss it, but the continuity is all wackadoo. I keep telling my lady she needs to go through that quest chain so she knows who the characters are in other quests, and I suppose the position that prevailed is that the harborage line could act as a prequel sort of story for folks like her who do it later.

But in practice the storyline is just sorta scattered.

You would have to have a lot of persistence as far as that if you came into the game on your own now. I’d love to see the retention numbers on folks who do not spend more than half their first 100 hours in a group, and how that has shifted over the years. If it has substantively decreased, narrow down a few other things and I reckon you could get at how it really impacts the player base. You might also get the numbers needed to support building a mentor mechanic but thats a whole other ball of wax.

Nisekev

Coldharbour tutorial should always be the first one, other tutorial quests should be played upon going to their respective locations. Especially considering that subsequent chapters are supposed to be events that happen after main storyline.

FlopsyPrince

Nisekev wrote: »

Coldharbour tutorial should always be the first one, other tutorial quests should be played upon going to their respective locations. Especially considering that subsequent chapters are supposed to be events that happen after main storyline.

A big question is if that really is needed for alts. I would argue that it is not. I do the current version of that for every alt, but it should not be first.

That said, I should be able to pick the tutorial and even run through the ones I did not do. Find some in game reason and allow it. remove the skyshard if you must in that case, but seeing the mechanics would be nice, especially for those prior to my start in Summerset.

Iccotak

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Nisekev wrote: »

Coldharbour tutorial should always be the first one, other tutorial quests should be played upon going to their respective locations. Especially considering that subsequent chapters are supposed to be events that happen after main storyline.

A big question is if that really is needed for alts. I would argue that it is not. I do the current version of that for every alt, but it should not be first.

That said, I should be able to pick the tutorial and even run through the ones I did not do. Find some in game reason and allow it. remove the skyshard if you must in that case, but seeing the mechanics would be nice, especially for those prior to my start in Summerset.

Well for alts that's what "Skip Tutorial" is for.

As for "Picking my tutorial" -
The big question is making a way for ZOS to still be able to make use of the new tutorial island - they did spend money on the assets, characters, actors, etc.

Let's say players normally start in Coldharbour, after the tutorial (skip or not) they find themselves on this new island - from their they can either
1. Take a Wayshrine out of there to wherever
2. Do the small questline that leads them to the portal room, and choose from there

---

Or just make an option in the Settings menu to choose the tutorial.
1. Coldharbour
2. Morrowind
3. Summerset
4. Elsweyr
5. Greymoor
6. Belfiera

The standard setting will be Belfiera, which will keep adding new portals to new chapters. So there won't be anymore tutorial options. BUT players can change the setting to whatever they like.

Rugby_hook

I would love to have played through the Coldharbour tutorial when it was an actual tutorial. Instead I have gotten Elsweyr and Greymoor tutorials for all my characters. I love the idea of a permanent tutorial, but I completely agree that it should be the Coldharbour one. They could even make some minor tweaks to have it align more with the idea they are going for of being told you can choose where to go by having the Prophet not drop you off on a starter island, but take you to the harborage which could become a portal room that maybe exists in a "between" space where you will tell you you can choose were you want to, and then say that he will send for you and for you to meet him back there. This way you get the intro to the main story, die, lose your soul etc, but are also directed that you can start where you want and know how to continue with the main story. The quest starters for the main storyline should also come at certain intervals and allow you to just take a portal summoned by the Prophet for you to go back to the Harborage, which would then allow you to use any of the portals again, or take one to where you were before you entered the Harborage.

aipex8_ESO

VDoom1 wrote: »

I have one opinion about tutorials.

No matter when you purchased ESO, if you're new or a returning player. All new characters should start with the main quest tutorial in Coldharbour, end of story. They should start from the chronological beginning, chapter 1. After that quests should be made available in a chronological timely order.

I understand the whole "players should be able to choose if they want to go to Elsweyr right away or somewhere else." That can still be an available option, after the Coldharbour beginning. Otherwise a majority of the game and the very base game gets very confusing.

New players are jumping around in the timeline without realizing it...

Technically there is no timeline as ESO treats all these events as happening simultaniously.

I play in a shared ESO universe with my 16 characters, meaning only 1 is the Vestige. So I like that you don't have to start in Coldharbour every time. I agree that if you want to play a Vestige character you should get the original experience for sure, I do miss that. Maybe instead of doing a tutorial, then choosing a starting location (with none of them being the original Coldharbour story, only 3 version of alliance war), you choose which tutorial you want after making your character, with one of those being the orignal vestige AND alliance war beginning.

However, the original zones are all 7 years old at this point and it shows, so I totally understand why ZOS isn't pushing the original story as the default starting place for new players. You want to wow them with the best looking stuff, and that's going to be the latest chapter.

Rosenfield

I would like to see the option of choosing a specific tutorial in the character creation screen.

Maybe ZOS could leave this new Balfiera tutorial as the standard tutorial for new players, and cut off some walkthrough elements from the other introduction quests. It would benefit players giving them more narrative power and variety for one of the most important parts of the character's journey: the beginning. And it would also benefit ZOS, by honoring the legacy of their previous work with those tutorial settings.

Iccotak

Rosenfield wrote: »

I would like to see the option of choosing a specific tutorial in the character creation screen.

Maybe ZOS could leave this new Balfiera tutorial as the standard tutorial for new players, and cut off some walkthrough elements from the other introduction quests. It would benefit players giving them more narrative power and variety for one of the most important parts of the character's journey: the beginning. And it would also benefit ZOS, by honoring the legacy of their previous work with those tutorial settings.

honestly don't understand why this wasn't implemented in the first place - perhaps we'll see some changes in the PTS or at launch

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Better Idea

They scrap all the expansion tutorials including the new one and just have everyone start in the wailing prison again, when you go through the portal it asks you where you would like to start your journey.

The End

And save the Isle of Balferia for a DLC or something and don't waste it on a tutorial.

Iccotak

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Better Idea

They scrap all the expansion tutorials including the new one and just have everyone start in the wailing prison again, when you go through the portal it asks you where you would like to start your journey.

The End

And save the Isle of Balferia for a DLC or something and don't waste it on a tutorial.

They probably considered that but realized they'd have to ask the Prophet voice actor to record new lines. Also other people are right to point out that ZOS really want to push players to check out the new content because older zones have not aged well. (ZOS is slowly working on it but I think an expanded team should put it on their priority list)

In all honesty I think the more realistic option is just give the starter option in the settings menu

Athan1

The first tutorial will always be the most epic one. Not saying the rest are not well-designed, they're great quests, but they are less appropriate and epic for the initial introduction to ESO.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Iccotak wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Better Idea

They scrap all the expansion tutorials including the new one and just have everyone start in the wailing prison again, when you go through the portal it asks you where you would like to start your journey.

The End

And save the Isle of Balferia for a DLC or something and don't waste it on a tutorial.

They probably considered that but realized they'd have to ask the Prophet voice actor to record new lines. Also other people are right to point out that ZOS really want to push players to check out the new content because older zones have not aged well. (ZOS is slowly working on it but I think an expanded team should put it on their priority list)

In all honesty I think the more realistic option is just give the starter option in the settings menu

Why would they need him to record new lines?

Again they need the original tutorial as it explains a lot like why the player can resurrect.

Iccotak

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Better Idea

They scrap all the expansion tutorials including the new one and just have everyone start in the wailing prison again, when you go through the portal it asks you where you would like to start your journey.

The End

And save the Isle of Balferia for a DLC or something and don't waste it on a tutorial.

They probably considered that but realized they'd have to ask the Prophet voice actor to record new lines. Also other people are right to point out that ZOS really want to push players to check out the new content because older zones have not aged well. (ZOS is slowly working on it but I think an expanded team should put it on their priority list)

In all honesty I think the more realistic option is just give the starter option in the settings menu

Why would they need him to record new lines?

maybe to list off where the portals go so then new players understand where they are going after the tutorial - they could have another voice like Meridia, or some aedric voice, state where the portal goes. To also give new players added context

But that seems like a lot of work, when ZOS could just implement an option in the settings menu that allows you to pick your introduction.

PigofSteel

Coldharbour was really good one i enjoyed it.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Iccotak wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Better Idea

They scrap all the expansion tutorials including the new one and just have everyone start in the wailing prison again, when you go through the portal it asks you where you would like to start your journey.

The End

And save the Isle of Balferia for a DLC or something and don't waste it on a tutorial.

They probably considered that but realized they'd have to ask the Prophet voice actor to record new lines. Also other people are right to point out that ZOS really want to push players to check out the new content because older zones have not aged well. (ZOS is slowly working on it but I think an expanded team should put it on their priority list)

In all honesty I think the more realistic option is just give the starter option in the settings menu

Why would they need him to record new lines?

maybe to list off where the portals go so then new players understand where they are going after the tutorial - they could have another voice like Meridia, or some aedric voice, state where the portal goes. To also give new players added context

But that seems like a lot of work, when ZOS could just implement an option in the settings menu that allows you to pick your introduction.

Portals? no there would be one portal and then a list with info-boxes that detail each location you can travel to.

Iccotak

Athan1 wrote: »

The first tutorial will always be the most epic one. Not saying the rest are not well-designed, they're great quests, but they are less appropriate and epic for the initial introduction to ESO.

Exactly, none of the others are nearly as engaging as the Coldharbour introduction

Bradyfjord

Iccotak wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

The first tutorial will always be the most epic one. Not saying the rest are not well-designed, they're great quests, but they are less appropriate and epic for the initial introduction to ESO.

Exactly, none of the others are nearly as engaging as the Coldharbour introduction

We were brought to a place outside of Nirn, and it was clear that we didn't want to be there. It was also made explicitly clear that we were killed in a sacrifice to Molag Bal. That made it infinitely more personal.

Iccotak

I have two core issues with ESO questing

1) Solo questing is ridiculously simple once you are no longer a "New Player"
2) The New Player Experience is so muddled, confusing, and alienating as well as frustrating for people like me who LIKE the original intro and questline pacing

The pacing of the base game main quest - before 1Tamriel update - actually encouraged people to play the rest of the game! Now its just a rush job...

If ESO really isn't the 'traditional' mmo - then treat it more like a TES game, just start players in the beginning in Coldharbour with the choice to go wherever they want afterwards.

Bradyfjord wrote: »

We were brought to a place outside of Nirn, and it was clear that we didn't want to be there. It was also made explicitly clear that we were killed in a sacrifice to Molag Bal. That made it infinitely more personal.

Coldharbour was the Most Engaging and Least Alienating out of all the intros. All the others pale in comparison

and for the love of god please make the "Prologue" starters in the cities optional.

Iccotak

Notice how there are still threads popping up discussing the issues of timelines and the new players experience (even the new one) being lackluster and giving zero direction?

Starting the Player in Coldharbour would do a great deal in solving that issue
(also just making the "Tutorials" options in the settings menu)

Like I've said:

it is way easier to explain to new players that they can go to any DLC they want after experiencing the intro rather than trying to explain how to properly start at the REAL beginning of the game and to make sense of the story timeline

ADarklore

I'm still stuck on the comment, "Only done Elsweyr and Greymoor in addition to Coldharbor tutorial but of those three Coldharbor is the most boring and tedious to slog through. I'm glad we're not forced to do that one unless we want the old man story." Like WHAT?!? 'the old man story'?!? You mean the story that pretty much introduces many main characters that span multiple DLCs and really introduces you to Daedra and Daedric Princes, along with starting you out on your character's introduction to Tamriel and being THE 'hero' that saves the world?!?

Just... wow. I am SO glad I started ESO years ago... I cannot even imagine starting with the convoluted DLC mess it has become.

Iccotak

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/60151

Once you’ve completed the new tutorial, you enter a final portal room that grants access to various starting locations based on what parts of the game you currently own. For example, as a base game owner, you choose from the three base-game Alliance starting locations.

However, if you own any of the game’s Chapters, you also gain access to portals taking your characters to their respective starting locations, too. It’s that easy!

Once you’ve completed the tutorial, you can begin your new character’s story in any part of Tamriel you’d like, but if you’re unsure where to start your journey, Norianwe shares some additional information on what kind of adventures you can find within each.

Problem is that in the Chapter starts it doesn't give proper context as to what is going on
You don't go through a stripped down version of a tutorial like you do in Coldharbour (not happy with it but at least that one still gives context)

Note that once you’ve entered a portal, your character can never return to Balfiera. Of course, at that point you can still travel to any of the other starting locations previously available in the portal room—you just have to do it by boat, by cart, or on foot!

Then What Was The Point Of The Portals?

It sacrifices what I would call the perfect beginning of a game - for something that doesn't even give a hook to gain player interest or get them invested, just to get them immediately to a place that they would have had access to through Wayshrines after the tutorial.

The Problem is that you are still unable to choose your beginning - you play one very lackluster and bland beginning and choose the next step from there while still NOT giving the player much direction and leaving them confused about how to go about things.

Coldharbour gave players direction and more importantly it got them invested! Now I go to start Island, get to mainland, then I can do Coldharbour - which drops me back off at starter island

It should be really simple - add an option in settings to pick tutorial
- Coldharbour
- Morrowind
- Summerset
- Elsweyr
- Greymoor
- Balfiera

That way it justifies the time and money spent on all of these introductions. Balfiera is great for players that just want to play together but I still say that First Impressions Matter when it comes to getting the player hooked and invested in your game.

It would certainly help get players on a better track and not feel like they have to keep consulting "Story Order Guides" like this one

ForeverJenn

Yeah. They shove new players in Skyrim facing Harrowstorms before teaching them how to get to a city and figuring out what they should do. I was fortunate to play the expansions as they came out, but how is anyone new supposed to figure out what to do with 50 NPCs chasing them in a city telling them to go different places? A poor newbie's quest log prob gets full before they even make a choice. This should really be cleaned up. It's just a sloppy mess at this point.

What's the point of reoccurring characters if people can't tell what order you're supposed to meet them in? I feel like I would have missed out on Abnur Tharn, Sai Sahan, Darien and House Ravenwatch's progression if I'd played their stories out of order cause I simply didn't understand there was one.

shadyjane62

Decided a while ago not to make new char till they can start the old school way. Cured me of making alts.

Iccotak

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Decided a while ago not to make new char till they can start the old school way. Cured me of making alts.

Agreed, the beginning character experience is thoroughly unappealing right now, It would be fixed with two things

- Option to start the old school way
- Option to turn off DLC/Prologue NPCs in major cities

But I have to say this is a pretty awesome intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QexKwsE9x2M

(would be nice if Daedric Titans actually flew around - or if there actually were dangerous enemies wandering the open world zones, I'll have to make a separate thread on that subject)

ectoplasmicninja

Iccotak wrote: »

But I have to say this is a pretty awesome intro

When I saw the new cinematic I suddenly had a burning desire for a massive large-scale invasion. I was thinking of a weekend event where portals opened up all over Tamriel, Dark Anchors fell from the sky, and Daedra came pouring out, and the server was given a goal to kill X Daedra, close X portals, and destroy X Dark Anchors and then some sort of reward if we met the goals. Don't ask me what, I just want to slay the hordes.

Drammanoth

We will never get old tuts. Get used to it

Iccotak

Drammanoth wrote: »

We will never get old tuts. Get used to it

Yeah, but at this point with the new cinematic I think I am ok with this compromise

Iccotak

If the original tutorial is not going to come back as a tutorial then can we fix it so then the first few enemies you fight in your prison breakout don't just drop dead from getting hit once?

and/or have your prison go like this?

- Sacrificed
- Wake Up
- Talk to the vision of the Prophet
- Lyris breaks you out
- Talk to Lyris
- Grab Weapon
- Make way to Armory
- Grab your Gear
- Defeat the Forge Master
- Get Out
- Sneak & Destroy the Eyes
- Meet Cadwell
- Break into Sewers
- Go to Prophet Prison
- Break him out
- Defeat Child of Bones
- Escape Coldharbour
- Find yourself on starter island