lost forum's idea, dungeon finish info board, like in battlegrounds

Sergykid

this was discussed at some point in a topic but it got lost and it's actually a good idea.
many players have no clue that they're carried during a dungeon, or don't believe those that tell them, calling them toxic.
battlegrounds have this feature. An info board at the end that shows the player, their damage done, their healing done. Could it also be added damage taken for tanks. More advanced stuff like buffs provided and such, to see if the healer has ele drain and major courage, to see if the tank does anything else than hold block and spam light attacks.
not necessarily for veterans to see, these things can be noticed without any info board. But for those people that have no clue, to see these things.

why would such a thing be not implemented? since they don't do it, they have their reasons for it. Which could be those?

Viewsfrom6ix

Personally I would like it.

But I know a lot of people would be against it because they don't want elitist people whispering them about how bad they were or they should have ran this set and done this skill.

I play BG everyday and only got one bad whisper ever.

At least we have eso logs that does this.

hafgood

No, not because I do little damage, I have high dps but because I do not believe in the name and shame approach of things such as this. It is making the assumption that all players are equal, that all can do high dps (or whatever) if only they chose to do so.

That is not the case, there are plenty of disabled people that play the game, there are plenty of people who have hand eye coordination issues.

If someone says go left in combat I'm as likely to go right as left as I struggle with them if I don't have time to work out which is which.

I'm over 50, you are then potentially comparing me to someone in their 20's or 70's but because you don't know the age of the people concerned you can't take that into account.

So no, I don't want to see this in the game, unless it's optional and I can turn it off so I don't have to see it.

Agenericname

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Personally I would like it.

But I know a lot of people would be against it because they don't want elitist people whispering them about how bad they were or they should have ran this set and done this skill.

I play BG everyday and only got one bad whisper ever.

At least we have eso logs that does this.

Much of this information is already there, on PC at least. If they werent getting whispers before, its unlikely they would get them because of this.

If ZOS were to implement a system like this, I doubt that it would include things like Elemenral Drain, for example. Asking healers to run it is a player thing, not ZOS'. Its an ability from the destro line. For ZOS to give any feedback on something like that with respect to a specific role would be a de facto endorsement of a particular playstyle, something they seem apprehensive about doing.

We would more likely see damage numbers, healing done, damage taken, or other basic metrics.

Thats not to say that I would mind ZOS giving players a window of feedback. Most of the people that I play with do use some form of data sharing. We all know each others damage and when we PUG a 4th we know that as well. Nothing has ever been said to the other DD. I view that information as useful and rarely if ever see anything negative from it, but having it optional doesnt bother me either, as long as we have access to it.

fizl101

I don't know that we need to see compared to each other, but at least on console it would be nice to see our personal metrics. All I get currently are my dps after a dummy run or the ability to see lots of numbers on the screen as they hit etc.

AlnilamE

I think as long as they are shown only to the individual player, that would be fine.

DonGodJoe

Anyone who state that this would be shaming should actually think of what is he saying...

Same thing as battleground final score tab, same thing should be during dungeon, some people need to wake up and realize that they are literally just dancing through dungeon doing nothing, this would be massively great feature for veteran and especially DLC dungeons.

We can't even inspect gears, no one knows what or who is what wearing with randoms, this is mmo and not solo rpg game.

Then it would be also better to have solo dungeon rewards.

ghost_bg_ESO

As PC player i know there are combat metrics add-ons, as solo player i'm using it after major patches for "reality check" and find it more useful in dungeon than pumping on dummy. People that want to become better would have option provided from in-game (especially console players), if they are ashamed to ask because for whatever reason, they will be able to see. And with existing recap at the end of dungeons all that explaining what went wrong or shaming or a bit of both together will most likely decrease.

Sergykid

AlnilamE wrote: »

I think as long as they are shown only to the individual player, that would be fine.

good idea but how would you know if it's good or not? if you see yourself at 100k damage done, you think it's good. If you see yourself at 100k damage done and the other guy at 1m damage done, then you'll know u did something wrong there

Sergykid

hafgood wrote: »

No, because I do not believe in the name and shame approach of things such as this. It is making the assumption that all players are equal, that all can do high dps (or whatever) if only they chose to do so.

how about battlegrounds them? you see their name and score of 1-8 with 100k damage done.
this "name and shame" thing is out of control, everyone is a snowflake these days?

Lady_Galadhiel

Wouldn't make much difference to most people because the players who want to improve their dmg/gameplay overall do their research online,look up builds,train rotation and weaving while most people just play for fun and do not care about getting high dps or similar stuff.

kargen27

DonGodJoe wrote: »

Anyone who state that this would be shaming should actually think of what is he saying...

Same thing as battleground final score tab, same thing should be during dungeon, some people need to wake up and realize that they are literally just dancing through dungeon doing nothing, this would be massively great feature for veteran and especially DLC dungeons.

We can't even inspect gears, no one knows what or who is what wearing with randoms, this is mmo and not solo rpg game.

Then it would be also better to have solo dungeon rewards.

This is why we shouldn't have it. "People need to wake up" implies all kinds of negative attitudes. No reason to know who is wearing what with most random groups. When I run trials as a healer sometimes in a vet pug I'll ask the other healer what gear they have and let them know at the same time I want to use something complimentary to what they are using. I never judge them on what gear they run nor even hint there is a problem with what they are running unless they ask first.

When you become concerned with others gear and skill set-ups that is when it is time to join a guild specializing in that activity.

And this information absolutely would be used for shaming. On PC players use the add-ons available to shame all the time whether it be them bragging about the percentage of damage they did or pointing out how little another group member did.

Amottica

Sergykid wrote: »

why would such a thing be not implemented? since they don't do it, they have their reasons for it. Which could be those?

I would suggest that those that manage the game are not interested in adding features so some players can tell other players they are bad players. It would seem to cater to a caustic environment at times.

I have noticed in my short time playing the game we are not able to inspect what other players are wearing. Has Zenimax commented on their reason for this? That would likely bring to light the real answer to the question here.

Also, for tanking, the damage taken does not seem to be a very worthy bit of information. I have noticed I can dodge roll to avoid some damage. While I have not been in any raids yet I would not be surprised if skills tanks may use that to avoid some heavy damage. That would lower that piece of information making it less useful to anyone.

Similar for healing done. That reflects more on the damage the group took. A healer would have to do more healing for a lesser skill group so it really says little about the healer's skill.

kargen27

Amottica wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

why would such a thing be not implemented? since they don't do it, they have their reasons for it. Which could be those?

I would suggest that those that manage the game are not interested in adding features so some players can tell other players they are bad players. It would seem to cater to a caustic environment at times.

I have noticed in my short time playing the game we are not able to inspect what other players are wearing. Has Zenimax commented on their reason for this? That would likely bring to light the real answer to the question here.

Also, for tanking, the damage taken does not seem to be a very worthy bit of information. I have noticed I can dodge roll to avoid some damage. While I have not been in any raids yet I would not be surprised if skills tanks may use that to avoid some heavy damage. That would lower that piece of information making it less useful to anyone.

Similar for healing done. That reflects more on the damage the group took. A healer would have to do more healing for a lesser skill group so it really says little about the healer's skill.

The information that would be good for a group to know would be buffs and debuffs the tank and healer applies. Still think it would be a bad idea to post that information after a dungeon, pledge or trial is completed though. If an individual player wanted to see their own stats I think that would be fine.

Amottica

kargen27 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

why would such a thing be not implemented? since they don't do it, they have their reasons for it. Which could be those?

I would suggest that those that manage the game are not interested in adding features so some players can tell other players they are bad players. It would seem to cater to a caustic environment at times.

I have noticed in my short time playing the game we are not able to inspect what other players are wearing. Has Zenimax commented on their reason for this? That would likely bring to light the real answer to the question here.

Also, for tanking, the damage taken does not seem to be a very worthy bit of information. I have noticed I can dodge roll to avoid some damage. While I have not been in any raids yet I would not be surprised if skills tanks may use that to avoid some heavy damage. That would lower that piece of information making it less useful to anyone.

Similar for healing done. That reflects more on the damage the group took. A healer would have to do more healing for a lesser skill group so it really says little about the healer's skill.

The information that would be good for a group to know would be buffs and debuffs the tank and healer applies. Still think it would be a bad idea to post that information after a dungeon, pledge or trial is completed though. If an individual player wanted to see their own stats I think that would be fine.

I agree that it would be a bad idea to show who the stats for the group. I think the context of a group board was made that this is to show others they were carried.

Merforum

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, this is exactly one of the things that makes toxic players even more toxic, in BGs trials etc. They shouldn't even reward individual players any points in BGs and only give TEAM points to those who are actually doing TEAM objectives.

They should implement 1, 2, 3 ,4 player deathmatches then all these type of people can play with each other.

Actually another idea is in PVP zones they should have a mode where there is no classes, no races no gear, etc everyone can choose to the giant werewolf, use PVP artifact and a mode with just bare hands ( with side kick, round house, etc). Then everyone in each match is PERFECTLY balanced, and it only skill decides the winner.

Sergykid

why don't you look from the other side? you say that people that don't care about carrying their own weight shouldn't feel bad about getting carried. But why they join veteran mode? if you join a veteran dungeon, then act like a veteran and carry your own weight.
if it's not fine for you to dedicate your time into what you bring for your group, then why would it be fine for me, that i did spend time into improving, to carry you through the dungeon?

same applies for battlegrounds, i don't find it fair to be awarded the same AP as someone who was half afk through it or came with his pve gear just to get his daily win and expecting to get carried to place 1 or 2, in a high mmr bg.

kargen27

Sergykid wrote: »

why don't you look from the other side? you say that people that don't care about carrying their own weight shouldn't feel bad about getting carried. But why they join veteran mode? if you join a veteran dungeon, then act like a veteran and carry your own weight.
if it's not fine for you to dedicate your time into what you bring for your group, then why would it be fine for me, that i did spend time into improving, to carry you through the dungeon?

same applies for battlegrounds, i don't find it fair to be awarded the same AP as someone who was half afk through it or came with his pve gear just to get his daily win and expecting to get carried to place 1 or 2, in a high mmr bg.

And you have the option depending on how the content is going to stay or go. You don't need to see the numbers to know when you are carrying somebody. We are also assuming bad players do not know they are bad. Sure there are some that have no idea but linking their DPS into chat and saying I just carried you isn't going to fix things. Truth is more lower skilled players would get better much quicker if the more experienced players took the time to help them. Problem is we have to many (not all) skilled players that just want to get to the end and get out. Player behavior has created the problem and player behavior could fix it. Listing the numbers isn't likely to help near as much as it would hurt.

zvavi

kargen27 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

why don't you look from the other side? you say that people that don't care about carrying their own weight shouldn't feel bad about getting carried. But why they join veteran mode? if you join a veteran dungeon, then act like a veteran and carry your own weight.
if it's not fine for you to dedicate your time into what you bring for your group, then why would it be fine for me, that i did spend time into improving, to carry you through the dungeon?

same applies for battlegrounds, i don't find it fair to be awarded the same AP as someone who was half afk through it or came with his pve gear just to get his daily win and expecting to get carried to place 1 or 2, in a high mmr bg.

And you have the option depending on how the content is going to stay or go. You don't need to see the numbers to know when you are carrying somebody. We are also assuming bad players do not know they are bad. Sure there are some that have no idea but linking their DPS into chat and saying I just carried you isn't going to fix things. Truth is more lower skilled players would get better much quicker if the more experienced players took the time to help them. Problem is we have to many (not all) skilled players that just want to get to the end and get out. Player behavior has created the problem and player behavior could fix it. Listing the numbers isn't likely to help near as much as it would hurt.

If you want to improve, ask. Most "veterans" are more than happy to chat and help, and most of us did try to at some point, but stopped because of negative attitude and general lack of motivation, why should we help those which don't want to help themselves?

And for all those believing that it is not that simple, it is. I am a noob in PvP, but I still enjoy IC, and sometimes I whisper the enemy for questions, I have 100% answer rate. No toxicity. Just straight up answer, and bits of small talk (even with gankers).

kargen27

zvavi wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

why don't you look from the other side? you say that people that don't care about carrying their own weight shouldn't feel bad about getting carried. But why they join veteran mode? if you join a veteran dungeon, then act like a veteran and carry your own weight.
if it's not fine for you to dedicate your time into what you bring for your group, then why would it be fine for me, that i did spend time into improving, to carry you through the dungeon?

same applies for battlegrounds, i don't find it fair to be awarded the same AP as someone who was half afk through it or came with his pve gear just to get his daily win and expecting to get carried to place 1 or 2, in a high mmr bg.

And you have the option depending on how the content is going to stay or go. You don't need to see the numbers to know when you are carrying somebody. We are also assuming bad players do not know they are bad. Sure there are some that have no idea but linking their DPS into chat and saying I just carried you isn't going to fix things. Truth is more lower skilled players would get better much quicker if the more experienced players took the time to help them. Problem is we have to many (not all) skilled players that just want to get to the end and get out. Player behavior has created the problem and player behavior could fix it. Listing the numbers isn't likely to help near as much as it would hurt.

If you want to improve, ask. Most "veterans" are more than happy to chat and help, and most of us did try to at some point, but stopped because of negative attitude and general lack of motivation, why should we help those which don't want to help themselves?

And for all those believing that it is not that simple, it is. I am a noob in PvP, but I still enjoy IC, and sometimes I whisper the enemy for questions, I have 100% answer rate. No toxicity. Just straight up answer, and bits of small talk (even with gankers).

I find that for the most part also in PvP. I read a lot of claims about how toxic PvP chat is (and it can be) but more often than not if you ask a question about a build you get an actual helpful answer.

Can be a different experience queuing for a random dungeon though. So many players are in a hurry to just get the daily reward and move on that they leave the instance/group before a new player can type a question. Either way I don't think the group seeing how everyone preformed is going to help anything.

zvavi

kargen27 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

why don't you look from the other side? you say that people that don't care about carrying their own weight shouldn't feel bad about getting carried. But why they join veteran mode? if you join a veteran dungeon, then act like a veteran and carry your own weight.
if it's not fine for you to dedicate your time into what you bring for your group, then why would it be fine for me, that i did spend time into improving, to carry you through the dungeon?

same applies for battlegrounds, i don't find it fair to be awarded the same AP as someone who was half afk through it or came with his pve gear just to get his daily win and expecting to get carried to place 1 or 2, in a high mmr bg.

And you have the option depending on how the content is going to stay or go. You don't need to see the numbers to know when you are carrying somebody. We are also assuming bad players do not know they are bad. Sure there are some that have no idea but linking their DPS into chat and saying I just carried you isn't going to fix things. Truth is more lower skilled players would get better much quicker if the more experienced players took the time to help them. Problem is we have to many (not all) skilled players that just want to get to the end and get out. Player behavior has created the problem and player behavior could fix it. Listing the numbers isn't likely to help near as much as it would hurt.

If you want to improve, ask. Most "veterans" are more than happy to chat and help, and most of us did try to at some point, but stopped because of negative attitude and general lack of motivation, why should we help those which don't want to help themselves?

And for all those believing that it is not that simple, it is. I am a noob in PvP, but I still enjoy IC, and sometimes I whisper the enemy for questions, I have 100% answer rate. No toxicity. Just straight up answer, and bits of small talk (even with gankers).

I find that for the most part also in PvP. I read a lot of claims about how toxic PvP chat is (and it can be) but more often than not if you ask a question about a build you get an actual helpful answer.

Can be a different experience queuing for a random dungeon though. So many players are in a hurry to just get the daily reward and move on that they leave the instance/group before a new player can type a question. Either way I don't think the group seeing how everyone preformed is going to help anything.

It might motivate people to ask. I mean when you are constantly dealing less damage than the healer, that throws tons of heals and debuffs, you will probably understand you are doing something wrong... I mean, what are people afraid of? Being called on having low damage, or actually seeing that they have low damage and are not pulling their weight? I have a strong feeling it is the second.

Hotdog_23

I would like to see my own damage and healing done and how much damage I received during a dungeon or arena run. Be nice to show over healing totals as well. Could care less about what other do Just show my percentage of total and leave the other blanks or place a non-specific player 1, 2 and 3 then my personally tally.

Heck I would like to even see what I do it a public dungeon or delve. They could show a running total every time there is a loading screen.


Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Gythral

No
Game does not need more soucres of toxicity

If anything it needs far far fewer!