Can it be considered that I soloed a dungeon if I used a Companion?

Elsonso

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

IMO, No, it's not soloing if the companion is holding aggro, dealing damage, or healing you.

Untrue, unless you wish to exclude a lot of existing content from the "solo" classification. The companion is part of the game, not part of the player. Other NPCs, combat pets, and location effects that assist the player act as part of the game. Like the various quest NPCs (Sai, Lyris, etc) and combat pets, it is acting on the side of the player, but it is the player that holds all of the skill and knowledge required to complete the content. The game cannot complete the content on its own. Therefore, as there are no other actors present that can complete the content, it is solo.

Sevn

bmnoble wrote: »

I don't see it as being any different than the Warden/Sorc/or even the Necro combat pets.

Totally agree with this. While I don't use them, I routinely see players "pets" heal them and tank for them and these are just as basic.

Which has me pondering, why can't they be used in solo arenas, but a sorc can walk in with their own personal tank and healer?

MooseKnuckles88

Elsonso wrote: »

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

IMO, No, it's not soloing if the companion is holding aggro, dealing damage, or healing you.

Untrue, unless you wish to exclude a lot of existing content from the "solo" classification. The companion is part of the game, not part of the player. Other NPCs, combat pets, and location effects that assist the player act as part of the game. Like the various quest NPCs (Sai, Lyris, etc) and combat pets, it is acting on the side of the player, but it is the player that holds all of the skill and knowledge required to complete the content. The game cannot complete the content on its own. Therefore, as there are no other actors present that can complete the content, it is solo.

These are my opinions, I DO exclude questing from this comparison, questing requires little knowledge about game mechanics or anything else one might encounter in dungeons, arenas, or even world bosses. If one choose to solo on a dragonknight or one choose to solo on a pet sorc doesn't matter because it's the class they chose to solo on, so if they're using their rightful pets to help them solo, then so be it, it's their tools they have access too. Sure one class would probably make soloing certain content easier, but that's a different discussion.

Elsonso

Sevn wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

I don't see it as being any different than the Warden/Sorc/or even the Necro combat pets.

Totally agree with this. While I don't use them, I routinely see players "pets" heal them and tank for them and these are just as basic.

Which has me pondering, why can't they be used in solo arenas, but a sorc can walk in with their own personal tank and healer?

I also think that a companion is nothing more than a fancy combat pet.

If I had to guess, it is because these areas are tuned such that they don't want to deal (as game designers) with BOTH a companion and combat pets.

As indicated by this thread, there would be people who no longer think that it is a solo exercise.

I will also add that there would be people pointing out that certain classes get an additional combat pet.

MooseKnuckles88

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions in this topic, but one more bit I wanted to add; combat pets are not equal to companions. If I understand correctly, companions will be able to equip certain gear and skills that are designed to perform a specific function. Also, these companions take ownership of a specific role in 4/12 man areas, and iirc the game itself even recognizes these companions to serve a place holder for an actual player. I would expect a companion to out dps, out heal, and out tank any class combat pet. Combat pets cannot equip any specific gear, and the skills they possess are not to the same scale as any companion would have, nor do they take place as a player in 4/12 man groups.

Sevn

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions in this topic, but one more bit I wanted to add; combat pets are not equal to companions. If I understand correctly, companions will be able to equip certain gear and skills that are designed to perform a specific function. Also, these companions take ownership of a specific role in 4/12 man areas, and iirc the game itself even recognizes these companions to serve a place holder for an actual player. I would expect a companion to out dps, out heal, and out tank any class combat pet. Combat pets cannot equip any specific gear, and the skills they possess are not to the same scale as any companion would have, nor do they take place as a player in 4/12 man groups.

Oh I totally agree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this subject, and as such is the case we will peacefully agree to disagree on this.

Combat pets are already preset with a function, thereby eliminating any need to kit them out for said function.

The difference in usefulness is sort of irrelevant in my opinion. A bad dps is still a dps. A bad tank is still a tank, etc.

While I don't play a pet sorc anymore, having access to all those combat pets certainly made content much much easier than while playing say a NB.

Madhojo

No

SeaGtGruff

The best answers have already been given-- that it's really not much different than using a combat pet, and why should you even care whether other players think it's soloing or not-- but I'll just add that you might look at it in progressive terms, as in progressing from one ability level to another.

Stage 1 might be completing a given dungeon as a member of a 4-player group.

Stage 2 might be completing that same dungeon as a member of a 3- or 2-player group.

Stage 3 might be completing it solo but with combat pets or companions.

Stage 4 might be completing it solo without using combat pets or companions.

You set your own goals and standards when you play by yourself-- unless you're playing for some sort of competitive title, in which case the group running the competition sets the rules.

And if it's just a question of bragging rights, as opposed to any sort of official competition, then you're almost always going to run into at least one person who's going to question whatever accomplishment you're bragging about, or who'll downplay its significance, for one reason or another.

Goregrinder

Technically no, since you would have had assistance. But I guess it would be no different than proc sets giving you ZOS damage and ZOS heals, this is now just an NPC doing it rather than gear. But really no one is really going to be able to prove you otherwise if you tell them you "soloed" a dungeon.

SeaGtGruff

Goregrinder wrote: »

Technically no, since you would have had assistance. But I guess it would be no different than proc sets giving you ZOS damage and ZOS heals, this is now just an NPC doing it rather than gear. But really no one is really going to be able to prove you otherwise if you tell them you "soloed" a dungeon.

I'm glad you mentioned proc sets, because that was something else I'd thought to bring up but forgot. If someone is going to argue that running a dungeon by yourself using a companion isn't "soloing," then what about proc sets that do things for you? What about addons that tell you when or how to react? If a purist thinks that "soloing" a certain content means doing it all on their own without any help, then I think that should also rule out proc sets and combat-assist addons.

But like I said, if you're playing by yourself and for yourself, then it really only matters what you think-- and what ZOS thinks, since they set the TOS and define what constitutes cheating and exploiting.

Goregrinder

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Technically no, since you would have had assistance. But I guess it would be no different than proc sets giving you ZOS damage and ZOS heals, this is now just an NPC doing it rather than gear. But really no one is really going to be able to prove you otherwise if you tell them you "soloed" a dungeon.

I'm glad you mentioned proc sets, because that was something else I'd thought to bring up but forgot. If someone is going to argue that running a dungeon by yourself using a companion isn't "soloing," then what about proc sets that do things for you? What about addons that tell you when or how to react? If a purist thinks that "soloing" a certain content means doing it all on their own without any help, then I think that should also rule out proc sets and combat-assist addons.

But like I said, if you're playing by yourself and for yourself, then it really only matters what you think-- and what ZOS thinks, since they set the TOS and define what constitutes cheating and exploiting.

Yep you are correct, some of the proc sets are essentially the game or ZOS playing for you. That's why I would say people can just tell other players whatever they want to, no one can really disprove them anyways.

akredon_ESO

yes it would be soloing, because the definition of soloing is just that Just YOU, no one else that is (HUMAN) is there. Pets/companions arnt real people so thus its just you and your loan some

Blacknight841

No...

You will have Companioned the dungeon.

Anonx31st

I believe any mechanics that doesn't involve another player to be performed, is considered solo imo.

oddbasket

Still just a tool available in the game, people seem to forget ring of the pale order is a huge crutch too, doing the healing for the player, but nobody questions it, because it's de facto now. People will use it if it's available to them, same with companions, even players who disagree now, because it's there, and because it improves the experience or makes it easier.

Elsonso

Blacknight841 wrote: »

No...

You will have Companioned the dungeon.

We need a companion named "Solo"...

Goregrinder

oddbasket wrote: »

Still just a tool available in the game, people seem to forget ring of the pale order is a huge crutch too, doing the healing for the player, but nobody questions it, because it's de facto now. People will use it if it's available to them, same with companions, even players who disagree now, because it's there, and because it improves the experience or makes it easier.

It only heals on player input, which is no different than manually casting a healing spell which is still player input. If it was automatic and did not require the player to actually click anything, like Crimson or Earthgore, then I would agree with you.

Anonx31st

Goregrinder wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Still just a tool available in the game, people seem to forget ring of the pale order is a huge crutch too, doing the healing for the player, but nobody questions it, because it's de facto now. People will use it if it's available to them, same with companions, even players who disagree now, because it's there, and because it improves the experience or makes it easier.

It only heals on player input, which is no different than manually casting a healing spell which is still player input. If it was automatic and did not require the player to actually click anything, like Crimson or Earthgore, then I would agree with you.

Exactly, it's similar to a skill based HoT which is considered solo even though it's programmed to help you survive.

oddbasket

Goregrinder wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Still just a tool available in the game, people seem to forget ring of the pale order is a huge crutch too, doing the healing for the player, but nobody questions it, because it's de facto now. People will use it if it's available to them, same with companions, even players who disagree now, because it's there, and because it improves the experience or makes it easier.

It only heals on player input, which is no different than manually casting a healing spell which is still player input. If it was automatic and did not require the player to actually click anything, like Crimson or Earthgore, then I would agree with you.

Disagree, before the ring, you had to strike a balance and manage dpsing, shielding, healing, and sustain for doing it all. The ring dumbs down the whole experience putting the focus on dpsing and taking care of the survivability by doing so. With the ring, it's easy to ignore adds and certain damage mechanics and focus on a target like the boss.

The real player killer though is still going to be dps checks and mechanics/avoiding damage regardless of having a companion. For example, what would kill a player in vma would still likely be not interrupting an enemy, the tiny spiders mechanic, losing the ice platform, the poison dots etc. What's really changed is just the difficulty, a clear still heavily relies on the player, and that's still a solo achievement.

Casul

@PaddyVu

Everybody hit the deck, I can hear him approaching!

Supreme_Atromancer

Dragonnord wrote: »

Since Companions are coming, I'd like to know if using a Companion to help on a dungeon is considered as you soloing that dungeon or not.

Thank you.

Why does it matter, except for d-measuring contests?

Edit: If "solo" is meant as a term to refer to having completed content without assistance, you aren't in the same league as someone who has completed something solo without the benefit of the follower. And if its not, then what's the value in the term in the first place?

Did it allow you to complete content you might have had difficulty getting a group for? Awesome. This will be in reach for literally everyone. Its accessibility, not bragging rights.

rpa

Well, appears companions are bit lacking in intelligence and effectiveness of a real player. They are like customisable sorc pets but also taking damage when standing in red without wits to not stand in red. Also they talk and have to be pampered and pleased and one has to avoid offending em and conpanion gear apparently barely drops and will clog player inventory if you can find it.

So if they are like now on pts, yes it's still solo

renne

Sevn wrote: »

Combat pets are already preset with a function, thereby eliminating any need to kit them out for said function.

Except bears, monkeys, dogs and birds just mindlessly basic attack unless you actively trigger them - using your resources - to do something. Companions can do significantly more than basic attack, and don't have to be triggered to do more than basic attack.

notyuu

Yeah I'd say ya soloed it, much like a sorc and pets

My question however would be, how did you even get the companions to be useful?
from my testing on pts they are so laughbly weak that even newbmcgee at level 50, cp 0 la spamming does more dps than them, is tankier than them and can actually heal better than them.