Is there any reason to be vampire still?

Starlight_Whisper

Like are the costs worth benefits?

Vevvev

Yes, but only if you're fine being in melee like a Dragonknight, treat mistform like a blocking tool, have the Ring of the Pale Order, and are good at keeping your healing up to spam Blood for Blood.

If you look at what I just typed in vampire is a playstyle where you're alone and by yourself even with others. If you go without the Pale Order ring you can be healed by others 5 seconds after your uses of Blood for Blood, which is good but not perfect. It takes some getting used to for sure, but once you pull the playstyle off you never need to worry about your magicka bar as Blood for Blood being used as your spammable allows you to still deal damage while it regenerates. Only issue is group play like in trials, but in them you morph over to Arterial Burst.

Oh, and another thing about the vampire spammables is since the introduction of the magic damage status effect you have a high chance of procing minor magicka steal on people you eviscerate. Vampire when built right is amazing at sustain .... crazy, right?

Edit: Also the Swarming Scion ultimate is a good reset button ((Don't go Perfect Scion it's worthless except in niche scenarios)), but sadly Vampiric Drain is indeed worthless. None of my vampire builds incorporate that ability into them since it is woefully underpowered, and easily countered.

oXI_Viper_IXo

Vamp only seems worth it on a PvP bomber and only stage 2 or 3.

Everstorm

I find it fun and challenging to come up with vampire builds and see what content I can solo with it. I don't think you can make really competitive builds for end game stuff but I don't do that content anyway.
I do really wish it wouldn't be so strictly magicka focused. And some restrictions/perks, like self healing only and invis running ,won't synergize well with the upcoming companions I guess.

Ryuvain

Vevvev wrote: »

Yes, but only if you're fine being in melee like a Dragonknight, treat mistform like a blocking tool, have the Ring of the Pale Order, and are good at keeping your healing up to spam Blood for Blood.

If you look at what I just typed in vampire is a playstyle where you're alone and by yourself even with others. If you go without the Pale Order ring you can be healed by others 5 seconds after your uses of Blood for Blood, which is good but not perfect. It takes some getting used to for sure, but once you pull the playstyle off you never need to worry about your magicka bar as Blood for Blood being used as your spammable allows you to still deal damage while it regenerates. Only issue is group play like in trials, but in them you morph over to Arterial Burst.

Oh, and another thing about the vampire spammables is since the introduction of the magic damage status effect you have a high chance of procing minor magicka steal on people you eviscerate. Vampire when built right is amazing at sustain .... crazy, right?

Edit: Also the Swarming Scion ultimate is a good reset button ((Don't go Perfect Scion it's worthless except in niche scenarios)), but sadly Vampiric Drain is indeed worthless. None of my vampire builds incorporate that ability into them since it is woefully underpowered, and easily countered.

Nice, someone else knows that vampire isn't useless. It can even be fun and decent when built right.

Tommy_The_Gun

There will be cool new mythic for Vamp. It reduces cost of transformation ultimates (WW, Vamp, Nerco).

Won't be good for WW, but for Vamp & Necro you will be able to transform way more often.

Ryuvain

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be cool new mythic for Vamp. It reduces cost of transformation ultimates (WW, Vamp, Nerco).

Won't be good for WW, but for Vamp & Necro you will be able to transform way more often.

Yep. That's the first mythic that got my attention. I already tried a vamp ult build with lowest cost possible. This might make it even better.

Seraphayel

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be cool new mythic for Vamp. It reduces cost of transformation ultimates (WW, Vamp, Nerco).

Won't be good for WW, but for Vamp & Necro you will be able to transform way more often.

Unfortunately the Vampire transformation is so expensive and so weak that this Mythic won’t change anything.

Vampire as of now, outside of some very niche builds, is dead, simply due to how awful most Vampire skills are and due to the horrendous cost increase of your non-Vampire skills. Without the latter Vampire could work, but not with such a massive downside to sustain.

hands0medevil

Hmm, how about the core of the game - roleplay

Vevvev

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be cool new mythic for Vamp. It reduces cost of transformation ultimates (WW, Vamp, Nerco).

Won't be good for WW, but for Vamp & Necro you will be able to transform way more often.

Unfortunately the Vampire transformation is so expensive and so weak that this Mythic won’t change anything.

Vampire as of now, outside of some very niche builds, is dead, simply due to how awful most Vampire skills are and due to the horrendous cost increase of your non-Vampire skills. Without the latter Vampire could work, but not with such a massive downside to sustain.

I do agree that the mythic won't really change the cost much, and the fact the extra resources once in the form is.... meh, but as for the ultimate being weak I disagree. Maybe it is on a class that doesn't restore resources when you cast ultimates, but the high cost actually benefits Dragonknights greatly. I love how Swarming Scion and Battle Roar synergize perfectly since it'll actually restore magicka and stamina to the new max values meaning in PVP the ability becomes a true reset button.

Starlight_Whisper

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be cool new mythic for Vamp. It reduces cost of transformation ultimates (WW, Vamp, Nerco).

Won't be good for WW, but for Vamp & Necro you will be able to transform way more often.

👀 My werewolf tank is looking at it

Ryuvain

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be cool new mythic for Vamp. It reduces cost of transformation ultimates (WW, Vamp, Nerco).

Won't be good for WW, but for Vamp & Necro you will be able to transform way more often.

👀 My werewolf tank is looking at it

It's good for werewolf after I tried testing, but the transformation stats part is pretty meh. I liked gaze better when solo tanking. Chain could use a buff imo.

divnyi

Plenty.

Stage1 is for everyone who just wanna any skill from the line. Elusive and transformation are the likely aims.

Stage2 for gankers / bombers.

Stage3 if you have that many sustain to go for additional toughness.

Stage4 requires dedicated build, and makes you true vampire, not like that weakly sorts.

Athan1

No

Purereality

No, especially if you're interested in end-game content, but ZoS is doing everything in their power to drive those players away anyway.

ParaViking

Played ESO since launch... Played all the content...overland, dungeons, PVP... I was so excited when Greymoor was coming out along with the vampire rework. Then they released it with a thud... What a truly steaming pile of garbage...

Lets face it. Vampire pretty much sucks!

I have seen a lot of really good ideas to fix it. I have even posted a lot on the subject just to make it viable, player friendly, and lore friendly again, but I don't think they are listening...

I am probably one of the few that has actually refused to cure it, but basically been driven out of most content. The game is miserable to play now so I don't... I am still a fan and think the game has a lot to offer, but not if vampire is your thing.

I hope they fix it one day. I would love to come back and play again one day.

Finedaible

The way I see it is there are only two situations where you would use vampire now:

1. To eliminate the sneak movement penalty and just stay at stages 1 or 2. This is what I do for my stamblade in pvp but tbh it kind of sucks now with the added cost to non-vampire skills whereas it used to increase sustain before. It does not feel like it is worth the downsides in its current state.

2. You exclude yourself to roleplay with other players and generic npcs. (Lololololololololololololololololo.....)

Vampire transformation might be okay in some situations, but it feels like a lazy reskin of the Necro ultimate, and it tries too hard to be similar to Werewolves and Necros. One too many skill lines dedicated to transformations imo. Not to mention it is the fugliest transformation to ever grace the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Finedaible

I guess one could use it on a thief too but meh.

master_vanargand

I've been trying Vampire stage 3 lately in Battlegrounds. (I don't crouch)
In conclusion, Vampire stage 3 is great to Nightblade in PvP.
I got more damage and survivability.
There are disadvantages, but it's no big deal.

[My PvP build]
Stamina Nightblade (DW and Bow)
Glass cannon build (no proc damage, all traits of Well-Fitted)
Imperial (Vampire stage 3)
Artaeum Takeaway Broth (Food)
Steed (Mundus)

slt101880b14_ESO

Just putting it out there...
Make the vampire ult work a little like WWs ult.
Hear me out here...
You can't "devour" like WW, but the time runs out more slowly and just like WW, you can replenish the time via attacks/kills
This would work if you also had the bat AOE togglable, and give a definitive usefulness to the other morph.

BejaProphet

Well yeah. Eternal life ftw.

WiseSky

BejaProphet wrote: »

Well yeah. Eternal life ftw.

This

geonsocal

still stubbornly hanging on to stage 4 vamp for my stamblade and mag dk...

the extra sustain cost is a pain, getting hit by fire type siege is pretty much a death sentence...I try my best to slot in some of the vampire skills in to their rotation, but - more and more I'm thinking of curing those two toons...

divnyi

I've just counted: 5 of 8 characters I have are vampires. Most of em because I want to be PvP competitive, and they have what I need.

I do think they should remake Drain and Mesmerize tho.

Vevvev

divnyi wrote: »

I've just counted: 5 of 8 characters I have are vampires. Most of em because I want to be PvP competitive, and they have what I need.

I do think they should remake Drain and Mesmerize tho.

If they remade drain and mesmerize to be better vampire would be far more fun to play. Find myself using all the abilities but those two, except in like Harrowstorms or fighting coordinated ball groups charging at you where Mesmerize actually becomes useful. Drain is not even niche, it's just worthless

divnyi

Vevvev wrote: »

or fighting coordinated ball groups charging at you where Mesmerize actually becomes useful. Drain is not even niche, it's just worthless

That wouldn't help. Front sector isn't 180 degrees, it is tiny 90 degrees. Any of them not looking straight at you, or looking bit sideways = miss.

Vevvev

divnyi wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

or fighting coordinated ball groups charging at you where Mesmerize actually becomes useful. Drain is not even niche, it's just worthless

That wouldn't help. Front sector isn't 180 degrees, it is tiny 90 degrees. Any of them not looking straight at you, or looking bit sideways = miss.

Yeah, but most ball groups run in a straight line. I found if I stand in that line I'm bound to hit the vast majority of them, and have. Issue is outside that instance I'd rather have Fossilize since if someone..... looks a little to the left or right well nothing happens. It's basically a 1vX ability that absolutely sucks when it comes to dueling

MindOfTheSwarm

The problem with Vamp is that their skills cost health. Which is a cool idea but the issue is that health is a precious resource and mag builds don’t have high health as they lose out on maxing their Magicka. This would be easily remedied if the vampire skills scaled with Spell Damage and Max Health instead. That being said you can kind of make a high health vampire work and it does ok damage due to simmering and blood for blood but it isn’t pulling top end numbers as you lose out on damage with non vamp skills.

divnyi

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

This would be easily remedied if the vampire skills scaled with Spell Damage and Max Health instead.

PvP hates HP scalings. I use blood for blood on permablock tank with 38k now, I can only imagine how broken it would be if it scaled with HP. And then necro goliath comes and you get 10k tooltips from character that had 0 offensive items

Vevvev

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The problem with Vamp is that their skills cost health. Which is a cool idea but the issue is that health is a precious resource and mag builds don’t have high health as they lose out on maxing their Magicka. This would be easily remedied if the vampire skills scaled with Spell Damage and Max Health instead. That being said you can kind of make a high health vampire work and it does ok damage due to simmering and blood for blood but it isn’t pulling top end numbers as you lose out on damage with non vamp skills.

Uhhhh... My mag character actually prefers using health over magicka since as a magDK everything is freaking expensive. Fix the health cost with healing and vampire can cast it's abilities just fine. Why sets like the Pale Order Ring is the glue that makes the vampire build work.

MindOfTheSwarm

divnyi wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

This would be easily remedied if the vampire skills scaled with Spell Damage and Max Health instead.

PvP hates HP scalings. I use blood for blood on permablock tank with 38k now, I can only imagine how broken it would be if it scaled with HP. And then necro goliath comes and you get 10k tooltips from character that had 0 offensive items

So you lower the base damage. And so what if PvP hates HP scaling. The skills themselves cost health so there is a detriment and furthermore you would still need damage items for that scaling to mean anything. If you simply stacked health and neglected spell damage your damage would not be that high.