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Stamina Equivalent to the Medusa Set
Zodiarkslayer
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Medusa is a staple MagDPS set. Not just because you get as much crit as with Mother's Sorrow, but because the Minor Force buff is "free", without any condition.
My question is now why is there no real unconditional equivalent to it on the Stamina side of things? Equivalents are well established with sets like Vicious Ophidian or Leviathan, for example.
Tzogvin is just Stacks with Bonus and Gryphon's Ferocity is only the Buff after direct damage, without any significant stat increas in Crit Chance on the 5 piece bonus.
Is there an unwillingness to balance?
My question is now why is there no real unconditional equivalent to it on the Stamina side of things? Equivalents are well established with sets like Vicious Ophidian or Leviathan, for example.
Tzogvin is just Stacks with Bonus and Gryphon's Ferocity is only the Buff after direct damage, without any significant stat increas in Crit Chance on the 5 piece bonus.
Is there an unwillingness to balance?
No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!
No Reward, No Effort!
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Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭the fact that the mag equivalent to vicious ophidian (a craglorn basegame trial) came with elsweyr should tell you something: mainly that the developers do not prioritize a stam AND a mag version of every set.
as to why that is i cannot explain.4 -
hackdrag0n✭✭✭Tzogvins is medium armour, ramps up fast and you don't loose minor force if you have it on the front bar and switch to the back. Medusa is heavy so can only be used on the front bar resulting in lower minor force uptime than Tzogvins. Sounds balanced to me.8 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should do away with spell and weapon criticals, and just make it critical chance...like with penetration.
PC EU
PvP only8 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Be careful what you wish for. Imagine how much more mag would dominate with a mag AY or relequen.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instead of a medusa for stam, if I were worried about balance, I'd ask for a Tzogvin for mag.
It's better than medusa.3 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tzogvin's gives much more critical chance than Medusa's, carries over to backbar, and has a useful non-crit line.Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Is there an unwillingness to balance?
Yes, there is. Stamina sets are superior in practically every way compared to Magicka sets; compare Vicious Ophidian to False God's Devotion and how easy it is to acquire one compared to the other. There is no Magicka equivalent of Berserking Warrior or Relequen or Kinras. Medium armor has no penalties and grants more armor than Light armor, which carries several penalties, one of them being increased physical damage taken, despite Light already giving the least armor. Medium armor has the same critical chance and sustain passives as Light, but also has defensive passives that Light lacks, like reduced block cost or reduced AOE damage taken, while Light armor actually increases block cost.
Stamina skills are 15% cheaper than their Magicka equivalents; take a look at the Stamina morphs of many class skills. Stamina can be used for skills, blocking, sprinting, breaking free, and roll dodging, but Magicka can only be used for skills, which are oftentimes inferior to their Stamina counterparts. Stamina has four weapon skill lines to choose from, Magicka just one, Staves, of which only the Inferno Staff is used, and it deals 10% less damage with light attacks compared to Dual Wield, 2H, or SnB. It's gotten to the point where many Magicka builds are running dual daggers because they grant more damage.
What does Stamina give up for this? Many people will try to tell you "healing and shielding", but that is simply untrue; Vigor is quite busted, and Brawler, Bone Shield, Shielded Assault and Defensive Posture are all solid Stamina shields. Stamina has a much better Armor skill; only Medium armor builds (and Nightblades) can gain Major Evasion for 20% reduced AOE damage, but the reverse is not true as Stamina builds can easily access shields, many of which are better than Annulment. There is a reason Stamina does so well in PvP compared to Magicka builds.Edited by Sangwyne on April 19, 2021 10:50AM10 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Stam is usually melee, so trap beast is a good option. Beside that, it also deals ok damage for stam. So what's wrong with that skill?
Magicka only has that annoying psijic skill, with a stupid cast time and not dealing any damage at all.
They should give minor force to another unique skill like e.g. soul trap.1 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because the stamina has a Beast Trap, which is not only a buff, but also a powerful dot. Acceleration only gives a buff and has a large cast time. If the magician had a skill that both damages and buffs, Medusa would not be needed.PC/EU2 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
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This, but unironically. Let people choose their origin. Maybe you look like a Nord but take after an ancestor that was Dunmer. Class identity is a joke when DLC classes have abilities and passives that are superior in every way to certain base classes, keep a few iconic skills and passives and make the rest available to all.Edited by Sangwyne on April 19, 2021 10:44AM1 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭The way I see it, there's 2 kinds of balance. One is where everything is the same, so it's balanced but very bland, and the other is that mechanics/builds behave differently but all are viable. The latter is harder to balance but infinitely more enjoyable.
As long as there exists a build for every class than can clear any content, even if the dps may be a bit lower than others, but each have their own unique class fantasy or w/e you want to call it, I'd prefer that over everything being blandly the same for the sake of absolute balance.Edited by HowlKimchi on April 19, 2021 10:53AM0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let's trade tzogvin's 5 piece with Medusa's, I am allllllll for it. And I am playing mag.Edited by zvavi on April 19, 2021 11:20AM0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the past we got magicka version of decent (and harder to get) stamina sets.
- Draugr Hulk (dungeon stamina set) -> Crafty Alfiq (magicka overland set)
- Bone Pirate's Tatters (dungeon stamina set) -> Bright-Throat's Boast (magicka overland set).
So, yes, we should get some good stamina overland equivalent sets. Like Stamina Amber Plasm or Stamina Medusa.
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on April 19, 2021 11:48AM0 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Because the stamina has a Beast Trap, which is not only a buff, but also a powerful dot. Acceleration only gives a buff and has a large cast time. If the magician had a skill that both damages and buffs, Medusa would not be needed.
Magicka can play this Skill too. There are only 2 raids, where Beast Trap is bad on Magicka, vAS and vCR.Love my Stamsorc0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Schattenfluegel wrote: »
Magicka can play this Skill too. There are only 2 raids, where Beast Trap is bad on Magicka, vAS and vCR.
Do we really need to point out that trap scales with weapon damage and max stam both of which are in short supply on a mag dd? Really?Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Schattenfluegel wrote: »
Magicka can play this Skill too. There are only 2 raids, where Beast Trap is bad on Magicka, vAS and vCR.
Do we really need to point out that trap scales with weapon damage and max stam both of which are in short supply on a mag dd? Really?
You get free Dmg, Minor Force and better Sustain for it. Medusa or the psijic skill doesnt make Dmg for you, Beast Trap does - but you have to know how to handle it. And actually...its Meta on Magicka, especialy if you stack behind the boss for Backstabber Passiva. The Range is normaly 8m, every Magicka DD can use it on Stackposition.Edited by Schattenfluegel on April 19, 2021 12:36PMLove my Stamsorc2 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Schattenfluegel wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »Schattenfluegel wrote: »
Magicka can play this Skill too. There are only 2 raids, where Beast Trap is bad on Magicka, vAS and vCR.
Do we really need to point out that trap scales with weapon damage and max stam both of which are in short supply on a mag dd? Really?
You get free Dmg, Minor Force and better Sustain for it. Medusa or the psijic skill doesnt make Dmg for you, Beast Trap does - but you have to know how to handle it. And actually...its Meta on Magicka, especialy if you stack behind the boss for Backstabber Passiva. The Range is normaly 8m, every Magicka DD can use it on Stackposition.
It's still much better on stam. Mag does only use it, since there is no other skill for minor force, except of that underwhelming psijic skill. So what's the point?1 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unless you already have a pretty high Critical Chance, Tzogvin's Warband might be hard to maintain and perhaps even providing Minor Force. Of course, I don't know all the sets but I'd say a close stamina version for Medusa would be Gryphon's Ferocity.
You don't have Weapon Critical in all 2-4 like Medusa (which might be irrelevant considering superior Medium Armour passives), but you keep 100% uptime of Minor Force just like it.I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
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