Potential improvements for Dungeons and the Activity Finder

Azurephoenix999

I feel like there are a few aspects to Dungeons and the Activity Finder which could be improved to influence the overall player experience in a more positive way.

Potential Improvements 1 and 2: Queue Time, and “Fake” Tanks and Healers

I’d like to talk about the first two at the same time as they kind of feed into each other. One is the sometimes ridiculous wait times for a group to be found and a dungeon run to begin, and the other is people queueing as Tanks or Healers, despite having no intention whatsoever of playing those roles, purely because the time spent in the queue is much longer as a Damage Dealer.

Nobody likes the long queue, so some people get around it by queueing as a role they have no intent to play, which causes further problems when the team has no functioning Healer or Tank. When it comes to Tanking, the most basic of tasks is to taunt powerful opponents and lure them away from your allies. Everything else is secondary to that, and so a “taunt” ability, such as the Puncture skill from the One Hand and Shield line, should be an absolute requirement when queueing as a Tank. The Activity Finder should not let someone queue as a Tank if they have no taunt skills slotted on either of their bars, the only exception being if they are wearing 5 pieces of the Tormentor set and a skill that can trigger its bonus taunting ability. Similarly, Healers are expected to heal allies, not just themselves, so to queue as one it should be an absolute requirement that an ability (or armor set) capable of healing allies is equipped. With these changes put in place, the amount of "fake" Tanks and Healers will undoubtedly decrease (though by what amount is a complete guess), which means less instances of players having to suffer through having one of these guys on their team, which should be a net positive.

With that, one of the main queue workarounds has been hindered, now we should tackle the long queue itself so people have less reason to want to queue as a "fake" role in the first place.

One of the causes of the long queue time is that not enough players are in the playlist outside of peak gaming hours. The best way to get more people into the playlist during these times would be to incentivise them with additional rewards. Whenever the population dips below certain thresholds, additional rewards would be added to the playlist to incentivise players to come back in. A simplified example of this would be if the minimum population for optimal queueing was 10k players, once the population dipped below that, players either currently in an Activity Finder dungeon or who queue into one at that point would receive a small portion of Transmute Crystals for every dungeon cleared. This would encourage players to start queueing for activities and help the population rise back above the 10k threshold, at which point (and maybe for 10-15 minutes after) the bonuses would subside (they'd persist for players that had already queued until their dungeons were finished). Populations at lower and lower thresholds, for longer periods of time, would need a larger influx of players to raise the population back to where it should be, and so the reward bonuses would increase.

This would be a drastic improvement as even if it doesn't work and the queue time isn't reduced, players will be more willing to put up with it if they get something worthwhile for their troubles.

Another cause for the long queue time is that the quantity of Damage Dealers drastically outweighs the quantity of Tanks and Healers combined, and I think that a large reason for that is because the game in a solo environment is much less friendly to Tanks and Healers. Questing while specced as a Tank is horrible, which is why people who make Tanks will usually have an entirely separate gear and skill set for questing, but even that is a drag as having to swap everything around every time you want to do group stuff can negatively affect the flow of the game. Healers are a little better as they can more easily fit as a Magicka Damage Dealer, but having to swap your gear and skills around to accommodate this is still an issue. Damage Dealers, on the other hand, simply fly through questing content. They carve through their enemies like butter, players get far more done when questing as a Damage Dealer, and players are more inclined to play as Damage Dealers in a group setting as a result.

Don't have my own solution for this, as I feel like the solutions already exist somewhat. Making questing more accommodating to Tanks and Healers is something I think would help tremendously, and it looks like Companions are going to help here at least a little. Also, when it comes to swapping gear and skills when moving between different types of content, Players on PC have a marvelous add-on that I believe is called "Dressing Room" that fixes this issue by allowing players to save their equipped skills and gear as a set, then swap between them via customizable hotkeys. Console players like me can't make use of this right now, but if it was implemented into the game itself, I can see a ton of players making use of it, and it would absolutely go a long way to making questing more comfortable for characters that aren't primarily DPS-oriented.

Potential Improvement 3: Dungeon Difficulty Indicator

Next potential improvement I’d like to discuss is how different dungeons, even on the same difficulty setting, can be more or less difficult than others. A well-known example would be comparing the DLC dungeons to the dungeons from the base game, with the DLC Dungeons being far more challenging, even on normal difficulty.

Often, which dungeons are more or less difficult depends on the players who run them and what roles they’re in. Even so, I think it would be helpful to newer players if there was an indicator of sorts next to each dungeon showing how difficult they are, and for which roles. To this end, I propose that an optional feedback system be implemented into the Activity Finder, where players can state how easy or hard they found their most recent dungeon activity, and the game would also record things like the player’s role, how many times they died, what caused their deaths, etc. This data from many players would be compiled to generate a general difficulty rating for each dungeon (possibly displayed next to their name on the Activity Finder), as well as a difficulty rating for each role within that dungeon. This would also be separate for normal, veteran, and veteran hard mode.

Potential Improvement 4: Random Dungeon Finder

Most players will do precisely one random dungeon per character, per day, and usually to get their fix of Transmute Crystals. As more DLC is released, and more “difficult” dungeons are added to the game, the chances of encountering something far more difficult than what you can handle are increased with each new drop. For this reason, most players, even those who are comfortable doing some dungeons on veteran difficulty, will always pick normal difficulty for their daily random. Signing up for a daily random dungeon only to end up in Veteran Depths of Malatar can cause some players to leave immediately, which isn’t good for the other players in the team who now have to queue again and wait for someone to fill the empty space.

Here, I feel like there should be a toggle for the DLC dungeons in the randomiser, as they are undoubtedly more difficult than the others, and as of now there is no additional reward for completing them. In addition, for players that want a challenge, there should be an option to restrict the randomiser to only those dungeons.

To incentivise players to aim higher, I also feel like the following changes are in order:

• Daily bonus rewards should be increased by 50% on Veteran Difficulty.
• Daily bonus rewards should be increased by 50% on DLC Dungeons.

Potential Improvement 5: Undaunted Pledges and Veteran Hard Mode

Everyone knows how the Undaunted Pledges work at this point; each day, players can receive three pledges from the Undaunted, each requiring them to complete a dungeon. This is the only way for players to receive Undaunted Keys outside of the Undaunted Event, and thus the only gameplay loop that can lead players to shoulder pieces from the game’s various monster sets. You get 1 Undaunted Key for clearing the required dungeon on Normal or Veteran Difficulty, and 2 Keys if you manage to complete the dungeon on Veteran Hard Mode (i.e. do the dungeon on Veteran Difficulty and clear a variant of the final encounter where the difficulty is increased even further, sometimes drastically so).

As shoulder sets are found in coffers (offer players a single randomly chosen shoulder piece out of each coffer’s possible six), and each coffer costs 5 Undaunted Keys. What some players will tend to do is clear the first two pledges on Veteran Hard Mode, and do the third (which will always be a DLC Dungeon) on Normal Difficulty. It provides players with exactly the 5 Keys needed to get themselves a coffer, and a chance at the shoulder pieces they want.

A potential improvement here is bridging the gap between Normal and Veteran Hard Mode by adding a more significant reward increase when players clear a pledge on Veteran Difficulty but are unable to clear Hard Mode.

The reward tiers as they stand are as follows:

• Normal = 1 Transmute Crystal + 1 Undaunted Key
• Veteran = 3 Transmute Crystals + 1 Undaunted Key
• Veteran Hard Mode = 5 Transmute Crystals + 2 Undaunted Keys

The improved reward tiers would be this:

• Normal = 1 Transmute Crystal + 1 Undaunted Key
• Veteran = 3 Transmute Crystals + 2 Undaunted Keys
• Veteran Hard Mode = 5 Transmute Crystals + 3 Undaunted Keys

In addition, clearing any dungeon on Veteran Hard Mode, pledge or not, would guarantee a weapon drop from whatever set is most relevant to the player’s current role (e.g. If the player is currently running a Healer and one of the dungeon sets is relevant to Healers, clearing it on Veteran Hard Mode would guarantee a weapon drop from that set). This would serve as an additional incentive to clear the hardest mode of a given dungeon even when nobody has a pledge to run it. It would also provide a more direct avenue for players to farm for weapons from dungeon sets, something that is currently sorely lacking.

Lastly, since there is a finite amount of Undaunted Keys that can be earned in a day, and they are the only method of obtaining shoulder pieces from monster sets, it is understandably irritating to farm as many keys as allowed, spend them all on the same coffer each day, and consistently get duplicates of items you already have, as opposed to the item you’re actually looking for. A potential improvement here would be to increase a player’s chances of getting a new item with each consecutive time they open a specific Undaunted Coffer, with the drop chances resetting when the player got a new item or bought a different coffer. This ensures that if they are persistent, they will eventually get the item that they're looking for.

Bad luck protection is important, as while RNG keeps things fresh and interesting for the most part, it shouldn’t be a source of frustration for the player.

Summary

In short, the potential improvements I'd like to suggest are:

• Prevent players from queueing for a role if their current setup is unable to perform the most basic of tasks for that role.
• Implement a system that keeps track of the population currently running Dungeons through the Activity Finder, and when it dips below certain thresholds, add some incentive to coax players into participating, hopefully helping to alleviate the abysmal queue times.
• Add the features of the Dressing Room addon to the base game.
• Implement an optional feedback system into the Activity Finder that allows players to comment on the difficulty of a dungeons they've just completed, and compile the data to give each dungeon a difficulty rating that is visible to players.
• Allow players to exclude, include, or restrict their random dungeon results to DLC Dungeons.
• Give increased rewards for players that do the daily random on Veteran Difficulty
• Give increased rewards for players that do the daily random on DLC Dungeons.
• Increase the quantity of Undaunted Keys awarded to players who complete Pledges on Veteran or Veteran Hard Mode by 1.
• Give Veteran Hard Mode clears (even outside of pledges) a guaranteed weapon drop from the Dungeon set most relevant to the player's current role.
• Each consecutive time a player buys a specific Undaunted Coffer, their chances of obtaining an item not currently in their collections should increase, resetting when they get a new item or buy a different coffer.

Wolfpaw

I like your rewards ideas.

GW2 lfg system is the best mmorpg lfg system I have ever used as it caters to all playstyles, convenient, & player driven.

This is one system ZOS should copy/create an ESO version of.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

Kurat

Even if they manage to shorten queue times using your ideas above, I would still queue as fake tank. Its because real tanks are not needed in normals and I still get in faster. Currently I wait 20-30 min in queue as a dps so there's no brainer to switch my role to tank and get in instantly. Now if queue times were shorter, even if only 5 min for dps, people would still queue as fake tank because its instant. Also the taunt slotted requirement is bs because I can have taunt slotted when I queue and remove it once in, or not use it anyways. Same if there was any other requirements like gear or min hp. We can swap setups with 1 click thanks to addons.
Another reason why I will NEVER bring "real tank" into normals its because of low group dps. I have several real tank toons that I use for vet trials but when I do my random daily with them I change gear and skills to dps and become "fake" so i can carry the group. And even as a fake dps I still pull 60-70% of the dps. I dont wanna spend 30 min in base game normals.

kargen27

"Everything else is secondary to that, and so a “taunt” ability, such as the Puncture skill from the One Hand and Shield line, should be an absolute requirement when queueing as a Tank."

Players that are willing to run a false role will slot a skill to get into a group then switch back to their normal set-up after entering the dungeon.

"The best way to get more people into the playlist during these times would be to incentivise them with additional rewards. Whenever the population dips below certain thresholds, additional rewards would be added to the playlist to incentivise players to come back in."

I don't see how rewarding people different depending on the times they play the game would ever be a good idea. You would be punishing players that can only pay during peak time. That is how they would see it.

"Here, I feel like there should be a toggle for the DLC dungeons in the randomiser, as they are undoubtedly more difficult than the others, and as of now there is no additional reward for completing them. In addition, for players that want a challenge, there should be an option to restrict the randomiser to only those dungeons."

The random dungeon queue is set up to help players that want a specific dungeon fill their group. You get the rewards for agreeing to getting a random dungeon. Splitting the queues first will increase queue times and 2nd will make it much tougher for players that want to do a specific DLC dungeon to get their group.

"In addition, clearing any dungeon on Veteran Hard Mode, pledge or not, would guarantee a weapon drop from whatever set is most relevant to the player’s current role (e.g. If the player is currently running a Healer and one of the dungeon sets is relevant to Healers, clearing it on Veteran Hard Mode would guarantee a weapon drop from that set)."

Many players run dungeons on one character to farm equipment for another character.

Amottica

If a player has a taunt skill slotted and queues as a tank what ensures they use it or don’t swap out the skill afterwards? One cannot lock skills on players when they enter a dungeon. That would be asking for trouble because it means players cannot adjust to the fight if they learn something new.

I had a fake tank in a group. We vote kicked them out and invited a tank to replace them.

As far as feedback on dungeon difficulty, as a new player I do recall being locked out of dungeons. I have been gaining access to more dungeons as I have leveled up. Even when I hit lvl 50 I didn’t have access to everything.

So my question is, has Zos adjusted the level we gain access to dungeons? It so it would seem they have received feedback and heeded it. If not then something should be done but I would not suggest the ongoing proceeds suggested. Something simpler design and outside of the actual game would be an easier system for providing feedback.

Zinggling

what we need for dungeon finder are FILTERS.

If I Queue for a vet DLC as a tank - which i mainly do - , I would love to filter what kind of DPS I wish to run with.
Like for ex.

- has complete vMA
- has speed run this dungeon
- has no death this dungeon
- has cp 1000+
- etc..


Filters could be a combination of AND and OR.

For ex. cp 800+ OR no death

Because right now, pugging vet DLC as a tank fails 90% of time and HM fails 99%.
It s just painful to be a tank nowadays, it should not fail that much, a few months back tanking pug vet DLC would fail only 15 or 20% on bad days.

Fake tanks in vet DLC are not a problem cause it just doesn't work, no need to implement a mechanics to make sure the tank has puncture slotted or any kind of taunt.

But bad DDs, how can the system check if they are decent or useless DDs?

On a side note, Filters would not affect the community, if I am too fussy with the filters I may not find anyone available for the run.

Right now, my average waiting time as a tank is about 2 seconds, fail is 90% and it begets toxicity most of the time.

I would gladly wait 10 mns because I filtered some prerequisite for the DDs and be able to complete the dungeon in a friendly manner.
I would love that because I like to play tank and I like vet DLC. vet DLC are truly genius content with a lot of thought and ingenious mechanics, they deserve more than fails after fails. It's sad only a small portion of pug can run them.

Amottica

Zinggling wrote: »

what we need for dungeon finder are FILTERS.

If I Queue for a vet DLC as a tank - which i mainly do - , I would love to filter what kind of DPS I wish to run with.
Like for ex.

- has complete vMA
- has speed run this dungeon
- has no death this dungeon
- has cp 1000+
- etc..


Filters could be a combination of AND and OR.

For ex. cp 800+ OR no death

Because right now, pugging vet DLC as a tank fails 90% of time and HM fails 99%.
It s just painful to be a tank nowadays, it should not fail that much, a few months back tanking pug vet DLC would fail only 15 or 20% on bad days.

Fake tanks in vet DLC are not a problem cause it just doesn't work, no need to implement a mechanics to make sure the tank has puncture slotted or any kind of taunt.

But bad DDs, how can the system check if they are decent or useless DDs?

On a side note, Filters would not affect the community, if I am too fussy with the filters I may not find anyone available for the run.

Right now, my average waiting time as a tank is about 2 seconds, fail is 90% and it begets toxicity most of the time.

I would gladly wait 10 mns because I filtered some prerequisite for the DDs and be able to complete the dungeon in a friendly manner.
I would love that because I like to play tank and I like vet DLC. vet DLC are truly genius content with a lot of thought and ingenious mechanics, they deserve more than fails after fails. It's sad only a small portion of pug can run them.

I looked up some of these things and would suggest if someone wants players with those accomplishments it should be easy for them to fill their own group as they should easily be able to find such players. If they want to go with a random group then use the activity finder and get random.

Kurat

Zinggling wrote: »

what we need for dungeon finder are FILTERS.

If I Queue for a vet DLC as a tank - which i mainly do - , I would love to filter what kind of DPS I wish to run with.
Like for ex.

- has complete vMA
- has speed run this dungeon
- has no death this dungeon
- has cp 1000+
- etc..


Filters could be a combination of AND and OR.

For ex. cp 800+ OR no death

Because right now, pugging vet DLC as a tank fails 90% of time and HM fails 99%.
It s just painful to be a tank nowadays, it should not fail that much, a few months back tanking pug vet DLC would fail only 15 or 20% on bad days.

Fake tanks in vet DLC are not a problem cause it just doesn't work, no need to implement a mechanics to make sure the tank has puncture slotted or any kind of taunt.

But bad DDs, how can the system check if they are decent or useless DDs?

On a side note, Filters would not affect the community, if I am too fussy with the filters I may not find anyone available for the run.

Right now, my average waiting time as a tank is about 2 seconds, fail is 90% and it begets toxicity most of the time.

I would gladly wait 10 mns because I filtered some prerequisite for the DDs and be able to complete the dungeon in a friendly manner.
I would love that because I like to play tank and I like vet DLC. vet DLC are truly genius content with a lot of thought and ingenious mechanics, they deserve more than fails after fails. It's sad only a small portion of pug can run them.

And how would the average dps player get into dungeons if tanks only filtered high cp or achieved ones?

Zinggling

Kurat wrote: »

And how would the average dps player get into dungeons if tanks only filtered high cp or achieved ones?

Filters would work only for DLCs, as i explained, DLC dungeons are the main problem with pugs.

Average dps players would still go into dungeons same as now.
(By the way, I m more than Ok with Average DPS in vet DLC, average is good, you meant bad-unaware 5 to 10k dps maybe..?)

But you're right, average players could not have a chance to enter vet DLC with this system as I presented it... which is a good thing ? or not ? If you tank as much as I do, you 'd understand my point of view.

At the end of the day, somehow, people have to realize that vet DLCs are not at all like normal dungeon runs, so many players enter vet DLCs without any idea of what awaits them in there, and without having ran them in normal difficulty first...so how to do that, how to solve that problem ? It's just an rough idea but it's an idea, something has to be done, really. Pugging vet DLC is misery far too often.




Another idea would be to note players, players giving notes to other players.
The more we run, the more we can get a note from others, the result is the average of the total.
1 note for playing quality, 1 for group interaction.

Maybe note their DPS (or tanking abilities) / 100 like 85% and their interaction with the group /100 like 95% or 10%.
Then we can filter, i want a group with 60% DPS or Tanking quality and 60% interaction quality.

...just another idea. (still talking ONLY about vet DLC here)

HalfRain216

Crossplay between Xbox and PS5 would shorten queue dramatically due to the bump up in population.

Viewsfrom6ix

HalfRain216 wrote: »

Crossplay between Xbox and PS5 would shorten queue dramatically due to the bump up in population.

Not really. The problem isn't population. It is the congested DPS queue. GF expects 1 healer, 1 tank for every 2 DPS. In reality, it's more like 1 tank, 2 healer and 20 DPS.

zvavi

How about, a crazy idea, fix the dungeon finder?
Fix n1: when you join a bigger group, dungeon finder should remove you from queue, and not "fake pop" for you and the other poor 3 fellas in queue that got you "assigned" in their group when you cant even join the group!
Fix n2: somehow, when you queue alone as a tank, and when you queue with a friend when you are a tank, the second option has longer queue time! I have no idea how, but it makes no sense for you to be held back in queue because a dd joined you. Therefore lfg tool should priorities handling groups with tanks, to ensure faster queue times for everyone.
Fix n3: Sometimes queue gets broken for a group member and it makes the dungeon finder go bananas. If you can't fix that, please add "clean queue for all group members" to the group leader so we can battle that issue without trying to regroup 20 times.

MissAethe

Queue times will never be reduced with all of those suggestions. As it has already been stated, requiring a skill that can be swapped out after you enter, is not a good check.

Queue times are long because people want to queue as a DPS/DD. That's just the reality. The normal game rewards a solo DPS playstyle, so when people graduate to dungeons, they go with what they know about the game's mechanics. I don't have a classic DPS for dungeons, I queue exclusively as a tank, or I bring my healer along on request, but I don't queue as a DPS. I don't have long waiting times for that reason. "Fake Tanking" is a result of players trying to game queue times, OR, baby new tanks trying to learn a role (the best way to learn to tank is by doing it).

Having a hard role-lock requirement will always have this problem. I play Overwatch when not in ESO, and even this hero-shooter FPS style game had this EXACT problem. No one wanted to queue as a tank or healer, they wanted to play a damage hero; wait times trying to get into matches (especially competitive ones) resulted in players queuing as DPS waiting literally hours for a match. They fixed this by making Quick Play Classic separate from Role Queue to where players could queue into matches without selecting a role. Those who did select a role, could choose one, two, or all three roles.

Of course, that style role queue wouldn't work in ESO because the hero selection isn't the same as a player character, but what if something similar took place? What if there was a third selectable dungeon finder that wasn't role locked at all (and as a result, you suffer the consequences for whatever madness happens). You could have your standard tank/healer/2dps random queue, and, a free-for-all random queue.

Maybe that idea also wouldn't work, but reducing the waiting queue for DPS (and avoiding fake tanks/healers as a result) won't be fixed with special rewards and incentives if someone just wants to Pew Pew Smash the boss. You can't solve the issue by trying to force players to pick up roles they just don't want to pick up.

kargen27

If you want your group to meet certain standards you need to post in guild or zone chat with your requirements. The problem with filters is a DPS can be sitting in queue for a very long time not getting a group as players just joining queue jump to the front because they meet some arbitrary number or accomplishment.

Being able to pick and choose makes the queues longer for everybody.

Zinggling

kargen27 wrote: »

If you want your group to meet certain standards you need to post in guild or zone chat with your requirements. The problem with filters is a DPS can be sitting in queue for a very long time not getting a group as players just joining queue jump to the front because they meet some arbitrary number or accomplishment.

Being able to pick and choose makes the queues longer for everybody.

There are many ways to make a group and I know how to run a vet DLC with guild/friends/zone... that s not the subject here.

The only standard I'm expecting as a tank is to be able to complete a dungeon, that's not too fussy is it?

We re talking about the efficiency of GF when it comes to difficult dungeons. With filters, average/good/excellent DPS would be picked up in priority, hence shorter queue from them.
vet DLC are only for good players anyway, so let's regroup them more efficiently.

by the way, that's the whole idea of GF: not sending zone messages or bothering with texts, invites, etc., just click, wait, enter.
The range of difficulty between regular and DLC vet dungeon is far too wide for GF.

cp300 is actually the only hard-coded internal filter for vet DLC, that s not enough.

I've seen once a Flawless conqueror cp 200, I m sure that DPS would fit perfectly in a vet DLC, and I've seen cp 1500 constantly die in regular vet dungeons.

I think a more elaborate or efficient filter should be put in place/made available by the Devs, because, right now, it's obvious GF is not grouping appropriate players together when it comes to vet DLC.
The tool is here but it needs improvement. Difficulty has increased a lot since WgT or ICP.

kargen27

"We re talking about the efficiency of GF when it comes to difficult dungeons. With filters, average/good/excellent DPS would be picked up in priority, hence shorter queue from them."

Which is exactly why it shouldn't be done.

"by the way, that's the whole idea of GF: not sending zone messages or bothering with texts, invites, etc., just click, wait, enter."

The idea is to allow players looking for specific dungeons to have a way to fill their groups with players that don't mind what they run.

Any filter increases queue times.

Agenericname

I like some of the ideas. A couple I don't think would help all that much.

Here's my perspective, from a tank. Personally I would be in favor of a separate DLC queue. There are 2 scenarios that I dislike seeing as a tank, and for the record, I'm talking about vet content. 1. The more obvious, being in a queue that has abnormally low DPS. The second is queueing into an easy dungeon, which is basically most base game vets and the group just runs around making a mess of the instance. That happens a good bit. I'm not a slow tank by any stretch of the imagination, so it's not really an issue of me looking through every vase in the dungeon or walking to every encounter. It's simply the rest of the group doing their own thing, and usually making a giant mess of it.

I've gone from "you taunt it, you tank it" through "I'm just gonna drop group" and straight to "I'm just gonna run with guildies/friends from here on out."

The odds of either of those two scenarios are highest in base game vet dungeons. Given the option of a DLC queue, it's all that I would queue for. The purpose of the random, at least partially, is to backfill for other players. I'm aware of that and mostly abstain from random queues. The proposed solution doesn't solve the issues that make me want to avoid them.

The rest I either think are good ideas or I'm apathetic about. ZOS isn't going to make the drops easier though. The entire reason for that RNG is to keep us running the content. They're not going to remove it.

Amottica

Agenericname wrote: »

I like some of the ideas. A couple I don't think would help all that much.

Here's my perspective, from a tank. Personally I would be in favor of a separate DLC queue. There are 2 scenarios that I dislike seeing as a tank, and for the record, I'm talking about vet content. 1. The more obvious, being in a queue that has abnormally low DPS. The second is queueing into an easy dungeon, which is basically most base game vets and the group just runs around making a mess of the instance. That happens a good bit. I'm not a slow tank by any stretch of the imagination, so it's not really an issue of me looking through every vase in the dungeon or walking to every encounter. It's simply the rest of the group doing their own thing, and usually making a giant mess of it.

I've gone from "you taunt it, you tank it" through "I'm just gonna drop group" and straight to "I'm just gonna run with guildies/friends from here on out."

The odds of either of those two scenarios are highest in base game vet dungeons. Given the option of a DLC queue, it's all that I would queue for. The purpose of the random, at least partially, is to backfill for other players. I'm aware of that and mostly abstain from random queues. The proposed solution doesn't solve the issues that make me want to avoid them.

The rest I either think are good ideas or I'm apathetic about. ZOS isn't going to make the drops easier though. The entire reason for that RNG is to keep us running the content. They're not going to remove it.

Wow, this explains much as to why I see so many tanks that are merely DPS. As a new player, I agree with the low damage.

I have found it odd that as a healer (that does some damage, with three DPS in the group, I am doing a third of the damage and I am less than 400 CP. I am talking about times where the others have more CP than I do.

It goes back to if you want to be guaranteed a decent group just form it yourself. When I jumped into guild groups for a random dungeon I have found I do much less of the group's DPS. I do not think anything suggested here will help the GF effectively.

Thechuckage

Others have pointed out slotting a taunt will not work.

Incentivizing players to do vets is a good thing, its kind of baffling why the 2 modes give the same rewards. (Note - the rewards should not be nerfed for regs.)

One filter I would like to see is "join in progress" It is highly annoying to get into a dungeon and 1/2 the pledge bosses are already dead. If someone wanted to stick around for it anyway, more power to them. Personally, 95% of the time its dropping group and trying again.

Azurephoenix999

Thechuckage wrote: »

(Note - the rewards should not be nerfed for regs.)

I think a ton of people would be enraged if they did that.

Thechuckage wrote: »

One filter I would like to see is "join in progress" It is highly annoying to get into a dungeon and 1/2 the pledge bosses are already dead. If someone wanted to stick around for it anyway, more power to them. Personally, 95% of the time its dropping group and trying again.

I agree with this 1000%. When doing pledges, nobody wants to join a group where the first pledge boss is already down. However, when doing your daily random, joining a group in progress would be a blessing for most players, since you can get to the end faster.

Having a filter that allows you a better degree of control over whether you join an in-progress group or not would be great for players who are queueing.

It could have ramifications for the groups who lose one their members and need to queue for an extra, however. Those who say "yes, I am okay with joining an in-progress dungeon" would likely have to be funnelled into the places where they're needed most in order to compensate.

Another potential solution would be to structure all pledges like the DLC ones, where the only encounter that matters is the final boss. That way, joining a group that's already halfway won't mean you're getting screwed.