Combat & Animations

Grebcol

I read alot critics from peoples who say the combat is sluggy and the animations are bad as hell in magazins/forums. Will there be any update in future to adress this? I played gw 2 before eso and yes the animations where much smoother in that game. In Eso it is very clunky and not really an "eyecatcher".

Tensar

Exactly. I feel 0 impact in combat.

Animations are ESO are bads.

stevenyaub16_ESO

Main contributor is that animations are only upper body, your legs just move around independently making it look really weird (legs/posture is really important in combat).

If you notice in the good combat MMOs the animation is the entire body. Downside is it locks/slows your movement. But this is easily remedied by dodge cancelling to avoid dangerous attacks.

Athan1

I like that you can move while casting and I generally like the animations. IMO they don't need to be eye-candy (which many of them are already), but rather practical.

My only issue is that some textures are outdated, and there is no way to alter our animations through skins and flares (e.g. change the skin of pets or the colors of our beams).

Hamboot

Outside of BDO, ESO has the best combat of any mmo out there, I don't like massive gcds in my skills, I hate long cool downs.

Darkstorne

It's a huge turn-off for so many friends I've encouraged to try the game. The combat and the atrocious animations are the biggest hurdle to get past, and many have quit within 30 minutes because of it. I also suspect it's why ESO doesn't have anywhere near the Twitch popularity other big MMOs do - it's just not a game that is nice to watch when the animations are pure jank (even something as simple as sprinting looks awful) and LA weaving is quite literally a bug that proved so much hassle to fix it got adopted as a "feature".

It's a mess to watch, but weirdly rhythmic to play, so either you get it or you don't. Certainly it's the biggest thing to address in a potential sequel after TES6, where they could do with slowing things waaaay down and toning down all the fireworks. Allow fast builds to be a thing of course for agile characters, but not every build needs to look frantic as f*** and explode with magical energy every single second.

MrDenimChicken

yeah the animations for the newer classes are a little better. But there are lots of old and reused animations that look pretty low production value. And light attacks and heavy attacks still feel relatively weightless. they are better than when the game came out, but light attacks especially feel very floaty even still.

I still think the sprinting looks weird. lol.

Vlad9425

An animations update would be a very welcome feature.

Iccotak

This is a consequence of a tab target combat system that was a World of Warcraft rip off - that was retrofitted into an action combat system.

Tensar

Hamboot wrote: »

Outside of BDO, ESO has the best combat of any mmo out there, I don't like massive gcds in my skills, I hate long cool downs.

Then you don't know a lot of MMO.

Blade&Soul got the best gameplay of all MMOs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRxjitXLHHg

This is just a gameplay of a new player, don't even unlocked all his skills.

Grebcol

Now i don't want that Sould and Blade gameplay in ESO. What i want is fluid animations and more impact. Now it is clunky as hell. More like a game from the 90s ^^ The Animations doesn't feel natural after all.

Hamboot

Tensar wrote: »

Hamboot wrote: »

Outside of BDO, ESO has the best combat of any mmo out there, I don't like massive gcds in my skills, I hate long cool downs.

Then you don't know a lot of MMO.

Blade&Soul got the best gameplay of all MMOs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRxjitXLHHg

This is just a gameplay of a new player, don't even unlocked all his skills.

I agree, the issue is that game isn't not western fantasy themed, is Korean/East Asian so most likely at least semi-p2w, is animé themed which is a huge turn off, and most importantly it's not anywhere near mainstream as eso so the pop in NA and EU isn't gonna be high enough for me.

I think that a lot of people here who are critical of b&s and eso because "the combat feels floaty" or whatever, are simply players who just prefer tab targeting combat and dislike very much action paced combat.

bantamguar

Tensar wrote: »

Then you don't know a lot of MMO.

Blade&Soul got the best gameplay of all MMOs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRxjitXLHHg

This is just a gameplay of a new player, don't even unlocked all his skills.

No thanks.

Those type of flashy animations have put me off so many games because of how over the top they are. My character doesn't need to jump in the air and spin 10 times to launch a fireball or hit someone with a sword. Don't get me wrong, there are much needed improvements to the visuals - especially when comparing the newer classes with base game. But they should look more realistic compared to that ^

Grebcol

bantamguar wrote: »

Tensar wrote: »

Then you don't know a lot of MMO.

Blade&Soul got the best gameplay of all MMOs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRxjitXLHHg

This is just a gameplay of a new player, don't even unlocked all his skills.

No thanks.

Those type of flashy animations have put me off so many games because of how over the top they are. My character doesn't need to jump in the air and spin 10 times to launch a fireball or hit someone with a sword. Don't get me wrong, there are much needed improvements to the visuals - especially when comparing the newer classes with base game. But they should look more realistic compared to that ^

Yeah i also do not like such flashy animations. But ye the actual animations in ESO are very outdated and clunky. This is also often critized in magazins (so there are a plenty Players which do not start play ESO because of this).

Hopefully ZoS will adress this in a future update. The Visuals are also important.

Abelon

[snip] but there is no point in updating animations if "weaving" (animation cancelling) stays a thing. This is not an attempt to spark a discussion on the benefits/drawbacks of skill/ light attack weaving from a gameplay perspective. But animation cancelling is the biggest thing ruining the animations. They could make the most beautiful animations in the history of video games, but people will look like twitching chickens nonetheless. Because animation cancelling.

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

Kadraeus

bantamguar wrote: »

Tensar wrote: »

Then you don't know a lot of MMO.

Blade&Soul got the best gameplay of all MMOs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRxjitXLHHg

This is just a gameplay of a new player, don't even unlocked all his skills.

No thanks.

Those type of flashy animations have put me off so many games because of how over the top they are. My character doesn't need to jump in the air and spin 10 times to launch a fireball or hit someone with a sword. Don't get me wrong, there are much needed improvements to the visuals - especially when comparing the newer classes with base game. But they should look more realistic compared to that ^

I don't think they're saying they want the animations to be that over the top. Even just looking at the way the character moves in that game, I personally think it's better than the way we move in ESO (it still isn't the best imo, but a little better). And when I say I think it's better, I'm talking about how smooth it looks, not how exaggerated it is that he's able to jump in the air. That little jog to the side he does whenever he suddenly moves to the left or right adds a whole lot of personality to him imo, and it makes the sudden change between standing still and running feel more natural. I'm not saying ESO absolutely needs in-between animations like that (forgot what they're called), but they make movements feel more satisfying.

Tbh, I do like many of the animations in ESO. The walking animation for females is great, and the one for males is alright. What I've never liked, however, are the sprinting and melee attack animations. Sprinting looks VERY unnatural and stiff. It's hard to explain why I dislike it in text, but I honestly avoided sprinting when I first played because I thought the animation looked so weird. I've gotten used to it since then, but I still wish they'd change it. The running (or jogging) animation is nice. I primarily play as a female character, and I actually like this animation, especially the one when she's running with a bow equipped. But the one thing that bothers me about the run animation with no weapons equipped is that your character's elbows are so far out as a female that it almost feels she's trying too hard to look girly.

The melee animations are the main reason I stuck with a bow. The skill animations are generally fine, but I seriously dislike the light and heavy attack animations with swords, daggers, etc. They're way too telegraphed and full of overswings. Your character takes too long to swing their sword, and then they swing it so far that their entire body twists 90 degrees and their weapon goes behind them. Skyrim had this "issue" too, but it didn't look nearly as ridiculous. When you swing your weapon to the point that your weapon arm ends up behind your head, aren't you leaving yourself completely exposed? I'm not some HEMA fanatic, but this sort of thing is starting to bug me in a lot of fantasy games. You're supposed to be this experienced warrior, but you swing a sword like someone who's never touched one before.

Sanguinor2

Kadraeus wrote: »

The melee animations are the main reason I stuck with a bow. The skill animations are generally fine, but I seriously dislike the light and heavy attack animations with swords, daggers, etc. They're way too telegraphed and full of overswings. Your character takes too long to swing their sword, and then they swing it so far that their entire body twists 90 degrees and their weapon goes behind them. Skyrim had this "issue" too, but it didn't look nearly as ridiculous. When you swing your weapon to the point that your weapon arm ends up behind your head, aren't you leaving yourself completely exposed? I'm not some HEMA fanatic, but this sort of thing is starting to bug me in a lot of fantasy games. You're supposed to be this experienced warrior, but you swing a sword like someone who's never touched one before.

Technically you arent wrong but I doubt my character has to worry about leaving himself exposed considering that he is completely fine after a dragon made out of metal with the size of a house jumps onto him just because I raised my shield infront of me *shrug*

Grebcol

Kadraeus wrote: »

bantamguar wrote: »

Tensar wrote: »

Then you don't know a lot of MMO.

Blade&Soul got the best gameplay of all MMOs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRxjitXLHHg

This is just a gameplay of a new player, don't even unlocked all his skills.

No thanks.

Those type of flashy animations have put me off so many games because of how over the top they are. My character doesn't need to jump in the air and spin 10 times to launch a fireball or hit someone with a sword. Don't get me wrong, there are much needed improvements to the visuals - especially when comparing the newer classes with base game. But they should look more realistic compared to that ^

I don't think they're saying they want the animations to be that over the top. Even just looking at the way the character moves in that game, I personally think it's better than the way we move in ESO (it still isn't the best imo, but a little better). And when I say I think it's better, I'm talking about how smooth it looks, not how exaggerated it is that he's able to jump in the air. That little jog to the side he does whenever he suddenly moves to the left or right adds a whole lot of personality to him imo, and it makes the sudden change between standing still and running feel more natural. I'm not saying ESO absolutely needs in-between animations like that (forgot what they're called), but they make movements feel more satisfying.

Tbh, I do like many of the animations in ESO. The walking animation for females is great, and the one for males is alright. What I've never liked, however, are the sprinting and melee attack animations. Sprinting looks VERY unnatural and stiff. It's hard to explain why I dislike it in text, but I honestly avoided sprinting when I first played because I thought the animation looked so weird. I've gotten used to it since then, but I still wish they'd change it. The running (or jogging) animation is nice. I primarily play as a female character, and I actually like this animation, especially the one when she's running with a bow equipped. But the one thing that bothers me about the run animation with no weapons equipped is that your character's elbows are so far out as a female that it almost feels she's trying too hard to look girly.

The melee animations are the main reason I stuck with a bow. The skill animations are generally fine, but I seriously dislike the light and heavy attack animations with swords, daggers, etc. They're way too telegraphed and full of overswings. Your character takes too long to swing their sword, and then they swing it so far that their entire body twists 90 degrees and their weapon goes behind them. Skyrim had this "issue" too, but it didn't look nearly as ridiculous. When you swing your weapon to the point that your weapon arm ends up behind your head, aren't you leaving yourself completely exposed? I'm not some HEMA fanatic, but this sort of thing is starting to bug me in a lot of fantasy games. You're supposed to be this experienced warrior, but you swing a sword like someone who's never touched one before.

The Sprinting Animation is indeed very bad. I hope ZoS will adress this in Future and make it more natural. This is also often critized and since RLS.

Aertew

I just want good animations in ESO. With all the money they make you would think they would hire more people and fix the bugs. Mabye microsoft will succeed with polishing ESO.

Aardappelboom

Aah yes, would be a very welcome addition. I'd definitely like them to take a look at how weapons behave in first person as well. I love first person but something is putting me off using it.

I agree with the majority, we don't need anime styled animations. Just more realistic ones. I'd be cool if they could make weaving more fluid as well, most skills have a specific motion and it would be nice if a light attack would connect fluidly with where the sword is after you use a skill.

I can imagine that would take quite a bit of work though, probably not something on their list right now.

Grebcol

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Aah yes, would be a very welcome addition. I'd definitely like them to take a look at how weapons behave in first person as well. I love first person but something is putting me off using it.

I agree with the majority, we don't need anime styled animations. Just more realistic ones. I'd be cool if they could make weaving more fluid as well, most skills have a specific motion and it would be nice if a light attack would connect fluidly with where the sword is after you use a skill.

I can imagine that would take quite a bit of work though, probably not something on their list right now.

For me they could take inspiration from Dark Souls 1~3. It feels much more natural there how the Character moves and hold the weapons. In Eso it looks really garbage how the character runs and hold sword/shield. Also the Attack Animations doesn't feel right for me. Bow seems okaish for me.

In a Video from Blackwood an animator speaks how much work he put in to animate the new monsters. That he want that it looks natural. So i hope they revisit the character animations in the future! 🙂

relentless_turnip

The combat is amazing IMO. Though the animations could be improved, to make them appear more impactful. I wouldn't want it to change the combat though and I'm not bothered if they do it all not. I would like to see a much more optimised game before they make changes like this.

Sangwyne

Combat is one of the first things people look at when deciding between which game to play. Thankfully, this game has other merits that draw people into playing, but that doesn't mean that combat can't also be one of them. I don't expect ESO to have the same attention to detail given to animations in games like BDO or other Korean MMOs, where graphics and combat are quite literally the only redeeming factors, but given ESO's size, revenue, and backing, it's a shame that combat animations are so jank. Weaving feels unsatisfactory, even when performed correctly, abilities can't be queued, and skills don't feel impactful, since you need to spam them alongside weaving in light attacks to achieve optimal performance. I would like to see the GCD raised slightly and skills buffed to match, so that each individual skill feels like it's actually doing something and you don't have to develop carpal tunnel syndrome just to achieve adequate DPS.

Extinct_Solo_Player

they need to revert the block cancelling and cast time on ult changes, they only made animations more laggy and clunky. It was much more fluid and smooth beforehand.

Grebcol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOMOPSHWCnA

Here as example some Dark Souls 3 Gameplay. Much smoother Animations (Running and how the character holds the weapon and when he runs how the arms move)! The attacks also feel much more impactful.

Nastassiya

Iccotak wrote: »

This is a consequence of a tab target combat system that was a World of Warcraft rip off - that was retrofitted into an action combat system.

Tab targeting was part of EverQuest and that came out in 1999; five years before World of Warcraft.

red_emu

In ESO the characters have no physics, there's no collision detection, just boxes flying around with no weight, that's why the combat feels so stiff and uninspired.

Iccotak

Nastassiya wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

This is a consequence of a tab target combat system that was a World of Warcraft rip off - that was retrofitted into an action combat system.

Tab targeting was part of EverQuest and that came out in 1999; five years before World of Warcraft.

OK, elder scrolls online and it’s early days of development was very much a rip off of World of Warcraft. Both in gameplay and choices in art design.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Grebcol wrote: »

Yeah i also do not like such flashy animations. But ye the actual animations in ESO are very outdated and clunky. This is also often critized in magazins (so there are a plenty Players which do not start play ESO because of this).

Whats a magazin?

Anyway on a strong computer, the entire combat thing is just fun. I can bang off all kinds of stuff seamlessly and the animations on my 4k monitor are very good indeed.

Grebcol

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Grebcol wrote: »

Yeah i also do not like such flashy animations. But ye the actual animations in ESO are very outdated and clunky. This is also often critized in magazins (so there are a plenty Players which do not start play ESO because of this).

Whats a magazin?

Anyway on a strong computer, the entire combat thing is just fun. I can bang off all kinds of stuff seamlessly and the animations on my 4k monitor are very good indeed.

Games Newspaper ^^ They often critized the bad animations in eso " That they are stiff and clunky"

I don't know what animations have to do with the 4k resolution...? Because animations are the same at every resolution.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Grebcol wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Grebcol wrote: »

Yeah i also do not like such flashy animations. But ye the actual animations in ESO are very outdated and clunky. This is also often critized in magazins (so there are a plenty Players which do not start play ESO because of this).

Whats a magazin?

Anyway on a strong computer, the entire combat thing is just fun. I can bang off all kinds of stuff seamlessly and the animations on my 4k monitor are very good indeed.

Games Newspaper ^^ They often critized the bad animations in eso " That they are stiff and clunky"

I don't know what animations have to do with the 4k resolution...? Because animations are the same at every resolution.

They look fine, are not clunky and flow rather well. If Game Newspapers don't like em', let them enter the 21st century, and die like all the other magazines.