Simple machines rule Cyrodiil, how odd for a world ruled by magic

marshill88

After doing tons of quests in the overland and realizing magic, relics, and ritual is the ultimate power...so powerful a single relic can bring down a deity...I find it odd that in Cyrodiil that simple machines hold most of the power.

I love cyrodiil, don't get me wrong....but I truly feel like I'm not in Tamriel when I visit cyrodiil but instead I'm in a world more governed by the laws of physics, sans all the magic from the players. I can't imagine a bunch of ballistas, simple machines governed by basic physics, having any real power over anything in Tamriel where such untold power comes from the supernatural.

Faded

Consider the size and weight of machinery you're able to carry around in your pocket, warmage.

marshill88

Faded wrote: »

Consider the size and weight of machinery you're able to carry around in your pocket, warmage.

haha, good one, mate.

i always saw it as "summoning" a simple machine to put it on the field, not like i am actually carrying it. But how do simple machines have so much power when the supernatural rules the day.

VaranisArano

Even Ulfric Stormcloak brought siege weaponry to break down the walls of Whiterun and open the way to Solitude, not using just his Voice.

At the end of the day, it's not just about power, it's about the most efficient tactics. Can your battlemages burn through a keep door? Yes, but then they've used their limited magicka for that when you could just use an old-fashioned battering ram.

Can your battlemages portal themselves into an enemy keep? Yes, probably, except that's why guards are keeping watch and everyone would be slaughtered as they piled through the portal. (This is exactly what a Pact Vestige does to attackers in Bal Foyen if you defend Fort Zeren. And it's pretty much what happens when someone accidentally gets teleported inside a keep under attack.)

Siege weaponry is the most practical and effective means to break down physical walls. It's not that mages can't do it. In fact, we see that relics like the Hammer can break down walls. Rather, it's that in most battles, it's a lot more efficient to save your mages for the work of killing and healing than it is to spend them breaking down a wall that you can break by purely mechanical means.



(ZOS had plans for more relics like Volendrung that might have brought a more "high magic" feel to Cyrodiil combat like you seem to want. The problem is that the Hammer exacerbates the zerging tendencies of alliances in Cyrodiil, future relics would likely have done the same, and ZOS put a lot of changes to Cyrodiil on hold while they try to figure out performance improvements.)

kargen27

marshill88 wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

Consider the size and weight of machinery you're able to carry around in your pocket, warmage.

haha, good one, mate.

i always saw it as "summoning" a simple machine to put it on the field, not like i am actually carrying it. But how do simple machines have so much power when the supernatural rules the day.

they are not simple machines any more than your staff is a simple stick. They automatically reload with you doing nothing but standing there. They can do fire, ice or electric damage and can launch a heck of a long ways with amazing accuracy.

Ranger209

marshill88 wrote: »

After doing tons of quests in the overland and realizing magic, relics, and ritual is the ultimate power...so powerful a single relic can bring down a deity...I find it odd that in Cyrodiil that simple machines hold most of the power.

I love cyrodiil, don't get me wrong....but I truly feel like I'm not in Tamriel when I visit cyrodiil but instead I'm in a world more governed by the laws of physics, sans all the magic from the players. I can't imagine a bunch of ballistas, simple machines governed by basic physics, having any real power over anything in Tamriel where such untold power comes from the supernatural.

Slot the magical purge and siege shield, and those simple machines lose much of their power via magic.

WhyMustItBe

I think the main reason is that even in Tamriel, truly powerful magic is something that is rare, and these relics only come around once in hundreds if not thousands of years. They also require extremely powerful beings to wield them, which are equally rare. Once those beings die/move on, it is unlikely these relics will serve much function beyond being a pretty souvenir for even the best mages of the day.

It would be like a caveman discovering an alien obelisk. OK maybe not a caveman, but like, a plumber from Cleveland or something. They are unlikely to possess the necessary skills or faculties to comprehend what it even does let alone how to operate the thing. Plus, such an advanced mind as could create such a thing likely built in safeguards to prevent any idiot stumbling along and using it as a weapon.

There are a few very powerful mages still alive/existing in Tamriel, who could possibly wield these relics. However, they tend not to be interested in the petty violence, territorial battles, and vanity crusades of the lesser mortals of their day to use them to influence the outcome of such lower affairs, even if they could.

So for the most part, sticks and stones battles still have to be fought with sticks and stones, and maybe a few fireballs (or the occasional errant ice comet lol).

XellJarmar

Imagine running around the Castle Roebeck to install witch pikes and bring harrowstorm upon it to flip the keep. Maybe, one in each resource nodes?

maximusrex45

Like army ants that run roughshod over the forest floor, killing, taking, and devouring any living animal in their path with ease of numbers, so do the little mortals of Nirn run roughshod over Cyrodiil when they amass in great enough numbers to carpet the rolling hills and quaint forests, leaving death, destruction, and conquest in their wake. So cast your spells and conjure your rituals, for all the good they will do when a thousand thousand ants descend upon you with only your conquest on their minds.

bmnoble

May not apply in the game side of things but from a logical stand point:

You can mass produce siege weapons and any idiot with a little training can fire them.

Takes years to train a mage, you really gonna risk wasting them going in the first wave to attack fortifications, don't forget the other side has mages too.

Its like an archer squaring off against an archer on the wall who has the high ground and something to hide behind, you think your mages are gonna fare any better in that same situation against a defending mage.

That and siege weapons are not just about breaching fortifications its about the noise, the constant attack prevents the defenders from resting, wearing them down as the siege drags on, most sieges were about starving out or forcing the other side to surrender and all out assault is the kinda thing you do as a last resort, due to the heavy casualties it causes.

Tannus15

bmnoble wrote: »

Takes years to train a mage, you really gonna risk wasting them going in the first wave to attack fortifications, don't forget the other side has mages too.

this.

throwing a big rock at something is extremely effective and the only thing you really risk is the machine which as long as you have engineers and materials you can just build more.

finding people with the potential to be powerful enough mages to tear down walls and then the years of training required to hone that ability is way more costly. It's the same reason the pilot is more important than the plane in current warfare.

Bucky_13

The sieges are summoned, so considering the world of tamriel, it's only logical to assume that the sieges are magical artifacts. Thus, their remarkable power makes far more sense.

ealdwin

Bucky_13 wrote: »

The sieges are summoned, so considering the world of tamriel, it's only logical to assume that the sieges are magical artifacts. Thus, their remarkable power makes far more sense.

Daedra bound under our control in the form of Trebuchets does sound quite bad*** when you think about it.

Vlad9425

Not true, I see noobs light attacking keep doors with destro staves all the time!

Malkiv

I don't think siege weapon can be classed as simple machinery; Siege weapons are definitely compound machinery comprised of simple machines. A simple machine would be a wheel, a screw, a lever-and-fulcrum. A compound machine is anything built from multiple simple machines.

Janus_Cruenti

I think you have to seperate lore/logic and gameplay here. I personally see it the other way arround: Magic is a bit too common in ESO to make sense to me (unless you believe it's related to the soulburst); there is no way how pretty much every second NPC got some magic combat ability. For the battles in Cyro, I think the concept art as well as the trailers give us a good idea how they were intendet to look like. Magic seems to play a significant role in it too ofc. But most soldiers shown still fight in their conventional ways - like in medival warfare. From what we know from other TES-Games, battlemages are not that common in general in the (human) military. And even if a unit attacking an enemy fortress have a battlemage, it isn't said he would be powerfull enough to actually destroy walls with his destruction spells. So unless one of the handfull really powerfull mages decided to support a battle, siege weapons are still the best way to destroy enemy fortifications in the world of elder scrolls.

MerguezMan

marshill88 wrote: »

I find it odd that in Cyrodiil that simple machines hold most of the power.

Have you ever been to one of those bridges in Cyrodiil that lead to imperial city ?
You know, those with the huge unkillable magic creatures ...