Make quest bosses harder.

geekboy09

While i'm not necessarily in the group who wants overland as a whole harder although im open to it, i do believe zenimax can increase difficulty of quest bosses instead of two or three attacks you give to the boss then they die

Daraklus

This is something I can get behind.

The climax of every story felt somewhat shallow when the big bad died in less than ten seconds when I was leveling. Ah, Angof the Gravesinger? Must be a dangerous foe! *splat* he's dead. Oh, The Night Terror, Vaermina's Champion and lover? With a name and title like that, you'd think he would be a foe to be reckoned with. Well... He took a bit longer because I had to beat him up multiple times, but still was relatively easy.

Really would be nice if the bosses would pack more of a punch and if they could take more of a beating.

VaranisArano

I thought the final boss of the Markarth DLC was a fantastic multi-stage boss fight with distinct mechanics for each "minion". I was pleasantly surprised. For once, the fight actually felt climactic.

The fight with Lady Belain, with the portal mechanic where you fight three different enemy mobs before the boss reappears

More fights like that would be nice.

DarkPicture

Markarth last main boss from bonus quest is first story boss with challenge. If u ignore mechanics from 1 npc u need to kill boss with 17 mil hp ish? (dont remember) As sorc with surge in trial setup i was close twice to die. So it was rly good and nice fight. However zos will not update/change for older story bosses cause they dont waste ressource on "old content" even its their the lastest chapter...

SilverBride

I am against this for the main reason that I don't want to be stuck from progressing. When the game was new, I remember being stuck on one boss fight for days, and I wasn't the only one. This proposal could hurt a large portion of the playerbase.

Daraklus

SilverBride wrote: »

I am against this for the main reason that I don't want to be stuck from progressing. When the game was new, I remember being stuck on one boss fight for days, and I wasn't the only one. This proposal could hurt a large portion of the playerbase.

I fail to see how it would be a bad thing to put a challenge for players to overcome. It would realistically inspire them to overcome the challenge and in return try to be better in the game for it, no?

I say this as someone who just beat a challenging encounter in Outriders after failing several times and feeling really good about it.

jircris11

They did that back in the day and Ppl complained in force

SilverBride

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am against this for the main reason that I don't want to be stuck from progressing. When the game was new, I remember being stuck on one boss fight for days, and I wasn't the only one. This proposal could hurt a large portion of the playerbase.

I fail to see how it would be a bad thing to put a challenge for players to overcome. It would realistically inspire them to overcome the challenge and in return try to be better in the game for it, no?

I say this as someone who just beat a challenging encounter in Outriders after failing several times and feeling really good about it.

Being stuck for days isn't fun. I don't play for a challenge and I don't want to get better in game. I am good enough for all the activities I enjoy. I just want to have fun and relax, and I am not alone.

It is very frustrating when others want to change what is a fun experience for me into something that I would no longer be able to enjoy. That is why I see this as a bad thing.

SirAndy

jircris11 wrote: »

They did that back in the day and Ppl complained in force

We want our old Doshia back!

ThorianB

One side wants the quest bosses to stay easy so they don't have to worry about getting stuck.
Another side wants the bosses to be harder so it feels climatic/challenging/dangerous...

...

Just give the bosses hard mode like vet dungeons. If you want quest mode difficulty, ignore the scroll. If you want a boss that is a threat, pick up the scroll. Everyone wins....

(mic drop)

Alurria

I think this is not a great idea, I am fine with the game as is. I enjoy eso, my suggestion is stop trying to change things that work and make suggestions that benefit all. I don't want to be taught how to play this game. I don't want others telling me how to do damage I don't want to play your way. I want to play my way and have fun. There seems to be an aweful lot of threads being made by people who want to push others into the way they play and I find it very disturbing.

I don't understand how anyone could think that Zos doesn't know what attracts players seeing as how successful this game continues to be. If some want to change something change it for yourself don't speak for me and I'm sure I am not alone.

SilverBride

ThorianB wrote: »

One side wants the quest bosses to stay easy so they don't have to worry about getting stuck.
Another side wants the bosses to be harder so it feels climatic/challenging/dangerous...

...

Just give the bosses hard mode like vet dungeons. If you want quest mode difficulty, ignore the scroll. If you want a boss that is a threat, pick up the scroll. Everyone wins....

(mic drop)

That is a very good idea and one I think almost everyone could be happy with. As long as killing the boss remains a one time experience as it is now, so it doesn't disrupt immersion in the story.

Alurria

ThorianB wrote: »

One side wants the quest bosses to stay easy so they don't have to worry about getting stuck.
Another side wants the bosses to be harder so it feels climatic/challenging/dangerous...

...

Just give the bosses hard mode like vet dungeons. If you want quest mode difficulty, ignore the scroll. If you want a boss that is a threat, pick up the scroll. Everyone wins....

(mic drop)

Great idea!

geekboy09

Alurria wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

One side wants the quest bosses to stay easy so they don't have to worry about getting stuck.
Another side wants the bosses to be harder so it feels climatic/challenging/dangerous...

...

Just give the bosses hard mode like vet dungeons. If you want quest mode difficulty, ignore the scroll. If you want a boss that is a threat, pick up the scroll. Everyone wins....

(mic drop)

Great idea!

hear hear

Sevalaricgirl

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am against this for the main reason that I don't want to be stuck from progressing. When the game was new, I remember being stuck on one boss fight for days, and I wasn't the only one. This proposal could hurt a large portion of the playerbase.

I fail to see how it would be a bad thing to put a challenge for players to overcome. It would realistically inspire them to overcome the challenge and in return try to be better in the game for it, no?

I say this as someone who just beat a challenging encounter in Outriders after failing several times and feeling really good about it.

Because most players are casual. ZOS, I'm sure, doesn't want to lose their casual players. We have 40+ hour a week jobs. We play games to release the stress from the normal world. We don't need more.

Daraklus

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am against this for the main reason that I don't want to be stuck from progressing. When the game was new, I remember being stuck on one boss fight for days, and I wasn't the only one. This proposal could hurt a large portion of the playerbase.

I fail to see how it would be a bad thing to put a challenge for players to overcome. It would realistically inspire them to overcome the challenge and in return try to be better in the game for it, no?

I say this as someone who just beat a challenging encounter in Outriders after failing several times and feeling really good about it.

Because most players are casual. ZOS, I'm sure, doesn't want to lose their casual players. We have 40+ hour a week jobs. We play games to release the stress from the normal world. We don't need more.

I'm a casual player, and I like to play games that give me some sort of challenge and not be complete pushovers, and I am pretty sure there are more players like that, than the "Casuo" players who reject anything that actually makes them put any effort into a game.

Why do people keep thinking that when people say "Make something harder", they mean one-hit mechanics that you need to memorize by heart or that an enemy kills you really really fast? I'm just here thinking to myself "Don't make a boss a pushover that dies in a few hits".

Just because there are "Casual" players who play everything on the easiest difficulty imaginable, doesn't mean that it makes for a good game experience. Man, I'd replay all the quests in the game on all my characters if the enemies I faced actually had some teeth and didn't hit me with inflatable mallets.

Grandchamp1989

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am against this for the main reason that I don't want to be stuck from progressing. When the game was new, I remember being stuck on one boss fight for days, and I wasn't the only one. This proposal could hurt a large portion of the playerbase.

I fail to see how it would be a bad thing to put a challenge for players to overcome. It would realistically inspire them to overcome the challenge and in return try to be better in the game for it, no?

I say this as someone who just beat a challenging encounter in Outriders after failing several times and feeling really good about it.

Threads like this have been made many times and there's always a vocal group who doesn't want to learn anything, do anything and put forth any effort. They want the game to play itself. If they could beat the game by clicking the auto run button they would take that option.

Alurria

So many complaints make me feel like some of people should move on if this isn't their cup of tea.

BlueRaven

Vet mode bosses cost extra money. Is there enough people to justify the cost? Specifically since it it would be limited to once per character?

No.

There is plenty of challenging repeatable content.
Leave the easy stuff for the casual players who pay the bills.

BlueRaven

@SilverBride Special vet modes for overland content cost extra money to create. That may mean the amount of overland content for casual players would go down (the money would have to come from somewhere in the dlc budget).

Edit: And remember this is once per character content.

rpa

In this game a solo content story final boss should be beatable by new player on char of whatever lv and skills one gets doing the story to that point. Otherwise new people would get stuck and leave with their wallets.
Other games have the level grind before new content. Which is different approach but not any better.

SilverBride

BlueRaven wrote: »

@SilverBride Special vet modes for overland content cost extra money to create. That may mean the amount of overland content for casual players would go down (the money would have to come from somewhere in the dlc budget).

I'm not suggesting vet modes for overland. In fact I've been very opposed to that idea. But what @ThorianB proposed was just a scroll at the boss to increase the difficulty of just the boss if the player wants more of a challenge. That would require much less effort to implement and maintain, and is a much more reasonable proposal.

redlink1979

You can always quest naked, it will be a bit more challenging

ThorianB

BlueRaven wrote: »

@SilverBride Special vet modes for overland content cost extra money to create. That may mean the amount of overland content for casual players would go down (the money would have to come from somewhere in the dlc budget).

Edit: And remember this is once per character content.

It's not that difficult actually. When creating new content make the story bosses hard mode by design. Then add a set of debuffs such as reduced HP and damage, maybe a couple of mechanics removed. You could even take out an entire phase if you set the boss up to have phases.

Then by default the debuffs are set to true, when you pick up the scroll it switches the debuffs to false and you get the harder boss.

BlueRaven

SilverBride wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

@SilverBride Special vet modes for overland content cost extra money to create. That may mean the amount of overland content for casual players would go down (the money would have to come from somewhere in the dlc budget).

I'm not suggesting vet modes for overland. In fact I've been very opposed to that idea. But what xxxx proposed was just a scroll at the boss to increase the difficulty of just the boss if the player wants more of a challenge. That would require much less effort to implement and maintain, and is a much more reasonable proposal.

If they want a scroll that gives their own player a temporary nerf, so the boss will effectively hit harder and have more hp. That is one thing. (They can also do that to themselves without help, but let's just move on.)

But if this scroll were to introduce new abilities for the boss in the fight, then there goes the budget.

Extra abilities for ANY mob requires;

Video game animators

Sound technicians (and possibly voice actors).

Time spent on balancing the new fight, and also QCing any glitches.

Will these new mechanics involve changes to terrain during the fight? More cost.

And all of this is time lost on other aspects of the game. (Also I am not even adding in the managerial costs on top of this.)

We like to think that these games are done by just a few programers. But every wolf and npc takes a team to make. Just adding something costs money, every time. If we players want to add something to the game, we need to also ask ourselves; "What gets cut to pay for it?"

Everything has a budget (and time constraint). All budgets are finite.

DreadDaedroth

Difficult bosses yes but not silly phases mechanics, like latest chapter final bosses.

BlueRaven

ThorianB wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

@SilverBride Special vet modes for overland content cost extra money to create. That may mean the amount of overland content for casual players would go down (the money would have to come from somewhere in the dlc budget).

Edit: And remember this is once per character content.

It's not that difficult actually. When creating new content make the story bosses hard mode by design. Then add a set of debuffs such as reduced HP and damage, maybe a couple of mechanics removed. You could even take out an entire phase if you set the boss up to have phases.

Then by default the debuffs are set to true, when you pick up the scroll it switches the debuffs to false and you get the harder boss.

It's not as simple as that.

Harder (thus longer) boss fights cost more time. Every ability has a sound right? Are we doubling the amount of sounds in the fight, maybe tripling it?

Are we doubting the amount of animations? etc.

This all costs more money. It's not a case of; "We were working on it anyway, we will just do more for the same costs."

SilverBride

BlueRaven wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

@SilverBride Special vet modes for overland content cost extra money to create. That may mean the amount of overland content for casual players would go down (the money would have to come from somewhere in the dlc budget).

I'm not suggesting vet modes for overland. In fact I've been very opposed to that idea. But what xxxx proposed was just a scroll at the boss to increase the difficulty of just the boss if the player wants more of a challenge. That would require much less effort to implement and maintain, and is a much more reasonable proposal.

If they want a scroll that gives their own player a temporary nerf, so the boss will effectively hit harder and have more hp. That is one thing. (They can also do that to themselves without help, but let's just move on.)

But if this scroll were to introduce new abilities for the boss in the fight, then there goes the budget.

That's a very good point that I hadn't considered. I was only assuming that the boss would hit harder and have more hp. I agree that adding new abilities would not be as feasible.

Chilly-McFreeze

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vet mode bosses cost extra money. Is there enough people to justify the cost? Specifically since it it would be limited to once per character?

No.

There is plenty of challenging repeatable content.
Leave the easy stuff for the casual players who pay the bills.

You know what wouldn't cost extra money? Simply ramping up the standard difficulty on future content.

You know what costs extra money too? Nerfing older dungeons so the "casual" can enjoy. I don't hear that money argument there.

Alurria

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vet mode bosses cost extra money. Is there enough people to justify the cost? Specifically since it it would be limited to once per character?

No.

There is plenty of challenging repeatable content.
Leave the easy stuff for the casual players who pay the bills.

You know what wouldn't cost extra money? Simply ramping up the standard difficulty on future content.

You know what costs extra money too? Nerfing older dungeons so the "casual" can enjoy. I don't hear that money argument there.

You know what costs more having people quit this game out of frustration who BUY things and support the game with their $$ I will argue there are more casual players than not.

BlueRaven

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vet mode bosses cost extra money. Is there enough people to justify the cost? Specifically since it it would be limited to once per character?

No.

There is plenty of challenging repeatable content.
Leave the easy stuff for the casual players who pay the bills.

You know what wouldn't cost extra money? Simply ramping up the standard difficulty on future content.

You know what costs extra money too? Nerfing older dungeons so the "casual" can enjoy. I don't hear that money argument there.

Less players because the content is too difficult, means the game is less profitable.

More players enjoying content, makes that content more cost effective.

Dungeons are not granted to us for free, they are SOLD to us either directly or through added value to ESO+. If players don't view dungeons as something they will use, then they are less inclined to pay for it.

ZOS wants players to pay for ESO+ year round. Having players decided to stop eso plus until a dlc they can actually enjoy (or even use) comes out means less profit.