......Why does the Corrupting Bloody Mara have Health Recovery on it?

JMadFour

It puts Vampires at Stage 4. Vampire Health Recovery is completely turned off at Stage 4.

Which means the Health Recovery on this drink is absolutely useless and non-functional. It literally does nothing for Vampires.

And Nobody who isn't a Vampire is going to make or use this Drink for any reason, considering the cost to make them compared to other foods/drinks and the obvious Vampire-specific Benefit.

So...I don't understand the purpose of Health Recovery on this Drink.

It should be replaced with either Magicka Recovery or Magicka Cost decrease. Or SOMETHING useful. Or just remove the Health Recovery and change the ingredients so it is cheaper to make or something.

Lisa

I can't believe I never noticed this. Considering how costly it is to craft, can you suggest a better alternative food/drink for vampires?

tsaescishoeshiner

Because non-vampires can use it. It already has extra functionality for vampires, and is still good without the Health Recovery. But Purifying Bloody Mara has the same Max Magicka/Max Health without the health recovery, so maybe Purifying should get the Health Recovery, too, although it's cheaper to make, so maybe that's fair. They're also both drinks, which is sort of a buff because of the sets that work with drinks.

It doesn't feel like an issue worth changing IMO. Witchmother's Potent Brew already has Max Health, Max Mag, and Mag Recovery, but much lower stats. So Mag Recovery on Bloody Mara would make it like the only mag DPS PvE food.

essi2

The bonus from the food has not been updated to account for the revamped Vampire Skill line.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

JMadFour

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

spartaxoxo

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

Because it has health recovery.

JMadFour

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

Because it has health recovery.

Are non-Vampires really using Corrupting Bloody Maras for the Health Recovery instead of Buff Food?

Is that actually a thing?

tsaescishoeshiner

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

They would use it because it has good stats. And possibly because it's a drink. It's not the most expensive food/drink.

It's not necessarily meant for vampires to use it exclusively, because each build picks food based on what stats they need. It has bonus utility for vampires to control their vamp stage, but you can replace it with another food after achieving your desired stage. It gives vamps an alternative to just having to feed on people or wait out their stage decay.

YandereGirlfriend

It definitely needs to be changed.

Purifying ought to be the one to provide Health Regen (so that Stage 1 and non-vampires can make use of it) and then Corrupting ought to receive a Bone Broth-style vampire ultimate cost reduction.

Alternatively (or perhaps in addition to...), you could give Corrupting something like Stamina Regeneration to make it a unique buff combination (I agree that giving it Magicka Regeneration would probably be OP).

Regardless, all of these subclass special drinks are under-powered. As Level 4 recipes they ought to have 4 different statistical modifiers yet Corrupting only has 3 and Purifying only as 2.

A facile argument is that their extra effect is the Vampire Stage toggle but that's not actually a combat statistic and thus it ought not to count for the purposes of its power budget.

Werewolf Bone Broth also only has 3 combat effects (I would consider the ultimate cost reduction to count as a combat statistic since it, you know, actually applies during combat). I don't know how many Werewolves actually run it but it's not useful at all for non-WWs so there does not appear to be much of compelling reason against giving it another effect.

Canned_Apples

It used to be meant to make up for the loss of 50% health recovery, but then they went and wrecked that skill line.
It should provide Magicka recovery for stage four vampires (because of the increased ability cost,) but they seem to be quadrupling down on the server penalties with the vampire sets.

I could go into why none of it makes sense, but there is no point in doing so.

Erelah

essi2 wrote: »

The bonus from the food has not been updated to account for the revamped Vampire Skill line.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I put a few bug reports for that when the changed the skill line.

spartaxoxo

JMadFour wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

Because it has health recovery.

Are non-Vampires really using Corrupting Bloody Maras for the Health Recovery instead of Buff Food?

Is that actually a thing?

Yes. For people who do a lot of crafting and pick their dragon chest, the mat cost is no big deal because it doesn't require roe.

So if you were gonna use this food
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Recipe:+Solitude+Salmon-Millet+Soup

The vamp recipe is better because it gives a third stat, but since it's health recovery it doesn't take big numbers away from the HP and Mag Buff.

Great for when you're doing content where you want the extra hp, soloing; or run a build which already has good mag recovery

Urzigurumash

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The vamp recipe is better because it gives a third stat, but since it's health recovery it doesn't take big numbers away from the HP and Mag Buff.

Great for when you're doing content where you want the extra hp, soloing; or run a build which already has good mag recovery

All true but for how many specs is the small amount of additional Mag, Health, and Health Regen better than the substantial amount of Stam from Sugar Skulls?

Did anybody ever really enjoy Frosted Brains before the Bloody Maras and Sugar Skulls were introduced? I play Stam, and I was usually a Bergama Warning Fire boy but I don't think many others were.

It seems like these drinks are only being used for the most part to adjust Vamp Level on the fly, then replaced with another food. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the drink should get Mag Recovery. Stage 4 Vamps are pretty niche and far from overpowered in the broad view. Make it only useable on Vamp or something so that it doesn't replace Witchmother's or Clockwork for most specs.

In general most drinks need a buff to be as popular as foods, especially in a burst meta like we have in PvP right now.

JMadFour

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

Because it has health recovery.

Are non-Vampires really using Corrupting Bloody Maras for the Health Recovery instead of Buff Food?

Is that actually a thing?

Yes. For people who do a lot of crafting and pick their dragon chest, the mat cost is no big deal because it doesn't require roe.

So if you were gonna use this food
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Recipe:+Solitude+Salmon-Millet+Soup

The vamp recipe is better because it gives a third stat, but since it's health recovery it doesn't take big numbers away from the HP and Mag Buff.

Great for when you're doing content where you want the extra hp, soloing; or run a build which already has good mag recovery

Interesting. All my characters are Vampires, so I never really considered the Mortal point of view on these foods.

Vevvev

It is a relic of the past back when vampire's health regeneration at stage 4 was -75% (-50% with the unnatural resistance passive unlocked). The fact ZOS refused to update the drink's effects, yet updated it's description and name, shows you just how much they don't care. Or it was some evil marketing scheme to sell more Basins of Loss on the crown store, but I highly doubt that because what would be the point of the stage 4 benefits?

Marto

irony

JamieAubrey

Becuase ZOS made the chance to Vampires without thinking of this [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Canned_Apples

Urzigurumash wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The vamp recipe is better because it gives a third stat, but since it's health recovery it doesn't take big numbers away from the HP and Mag Buff.

Great for when you're doing content where you want the extra hp, soloing; or run a build which already has good mag recovery

All true but for how many specs is the small amount of additional Mag, Health, and Health Regen better than the substantial amount of Stam from Sugar Skulls?

Did anybody ever really enjoy Frosted Brains before the Bloody Maras and Sugar Skulls were introduced? I play Stam, and I was usually a Bergama Warning Fire boy but I don't think many others were.

It seems like these drinks are only being used for the most part to adjust Vamp Level on the fly, then replaced with another food. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the drink should get Mag Recovery. Stage 4 Vamps are pretty niche and far from overpowered in the broad view. Make it only useable on Vamp or something so that it doesn't replace Witchmother's or Clockwork for most specs.

In general most drinks need a buff to be as popular as foods, especially in a burst meta like we have in PvP right now.

Drinks were nerfed or turned to food because of sets like bright throat and bone pirate.

ZaroktheImmortal

If you're not a vampire you can still use it and if you have one of those vampire fountains at your house you can use that to go back to stage 1.

SickleCider

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The vamp recipe is better because it gives a third stat, but since it's health recovery it doesn't take big numbers away from the HP and Mag Buff.

Great for when you're doing content where you want the extra hp, soloing; or run a build which already has good mag recovery

All true but for how many specs is the small amount of additional Mag, Health, and Health Regen better than the substantial amount of Stam from Sugar Skulls?

Did anybody ever really enjoy Frosted Brains before the Bloody Maras and Sugar Skulls were introduced? I play Stam, and I was usually a Bergama Warning Fire boy but I don't think many others were.

It seems like these drinks are only being used for the most part to adjust Vamp Level on the fly, then replaced with another food. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the drink should get Mag Recovery. Stage 4 Vamps are pretty niche and far from overpowered in the broad view. Make it only useable on Vamp or something so that it doesn't replace Witchmother's or Clockwork for most specs.

In general most drinks need a buff to be as popular as foods, especially in a burst meta like we have in PvP right now.

Drinks were nerfed or turned to food because of sets like bright throat and bone pirate.

RIP Witchmother's.

BretonicBlondie

Please NO!! do not ask to nerf or change Corrupting Bloody Mara; some people like it and use it. I do. And it is almost cheap to make: just kill dragons, and daedra, and the other components come by themselves. Please, if you need something for you, ask ZOS to ADD it to the game, do not ask to destroy something that other players could enjoy.

JMadFour

BretonicBlondie wrote: »

Please NO!! do not ask to nerf or change Corrupting Bloody Mara; some people like it and use it. I do. And it is almost cheap to make: just kill dragons, and daedra, and the other components come by themselves. Please, if you need something for you, ask ZOS to ADD it to the game, do not ask to destroy something that other players could enjoy.

Seriously? With the hysterics?

Changing the Health Recovery to something actually useful to Vampires is not "destroying" or "nerfing" it.

Like...come on.

Remathilis

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Becuase ZOS made the chance to Vampires without thinking of this [snip]

Basically this.

Nyladreas

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it. It already has extra functionality for vampires, and is still good without the Health Recovery. But Purifying Bloody Mara has the same Max Magicka/Max Health without the health recovery, so maybe Purifying should get the Health Recovery, too, although it's cheaper to make, so maybe that's fair. They're also both drinks, which is sort of a buff because of the sets that work with drinks.

It doesn't feel like an issue worth changing IMO. Witchmother's Potent Brew already has Max Health, Max Mag, and Mag Recovery, but much lower stats. So Mag Recovery on Bloody Mara would make it like the only mag DPS PvE food.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

Because it has health recovery.

I believe you two have 0 idea that corrupting bloody mara was the original vampire food that had a logical use of health recovery in the past before vampire revamp AND only got renamed. The devs just forgot to move the health regen to the new purifying one which has the same stats.

I doubt it's really "meant" for non-vampires too. While a non-vampires can use it, the item was originally created with a specific idea in mind, part of which was that some vampires wanted to stay at lower vamp levels and utilize said health regen.

I could definitely be wrong tho, and if I really am, then I'm willing to bet devs added the health regen there instead of the purifying one due to an oversight.

spartaxoxo

Nyladreas wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it. It already has extra functionality for vampires, and is still good without the Health Recovery. But Purifying Bloody Mara has the same Max Magicka/Max Health without the health recovery, so maybe Purifying should get the Health Recovery, too, although it's cheaper to make, so maybe that's fair. They're also both drinks, which is sort of a buff because of the sets that work with drinks.

It doesn't feel like an issue worth changing IMO. Witchmother's Potent Brew already has Max Health, Max Mag, and Mag Recovery, but much lower stats. So Mag Recovery on Bloody Mara would make it like the only mag DPS PvE food.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Because non-vampires can use it.

But why would they?

Considering how costly is is to make?

It's very clearly meant specifically for Vampires to use.

Because it has health recovery.

I believe you two have 0 idea that corrupting bloody mara was the original vampire food that had a logical use of health recovery in the past before vampire revamp AND only got renamed.

Actually I did know that. I just don't care about it because I'm not using it for vampire buff. I am just speaking on how I have used it in the past on a non-vamp. It had a nice bonus for my playstyle. And I didn't need stam, which lowers the hp and mag bonus.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The vamp recipe is better because it gives a third stat, but since it's health recovery it doesn't take big numbers away from the HP and Mag Buff.

Great for when you're doing content where you want the extra hp, soloing; or run a build which already has good mag recovery

All true but for how many specs is the small amount of additional Mag, Health, and Health Regen better than the substantial amount of Stam from Sugar Skulls?

Probably not a lot, admittedly. I think some mag builds using heavy attacks though is probably better off with this than sugar skulls. You don't need mag recovery with those builds, and a lot of them run undaunted infiltrator, which gives you more Stam than you want in the first place.

Jeremy

JMadFour wrote: »

It puts Vampires at Stage 4. Vampire Health Recovery is completely turned off at Stage 4.

Which means the Health Recovery on this drink is absolutely useless and non-functional. It literally does nothing for Vampires.

And Nobody who isn't a Vampire is going to make or use this Drink for any reason, considering the cost to make them compared to other foods/drinks and the obvious Vampire-specific Benefit.

So...I don't understand the purpose of Health Recovery on this Drink.

It should be replaced with either Magicka Recovery or Magicka Cost decrease. Or SOMETHING useful. Or just remove the Health Recovery and change the ingredients so it is cheaper to make or something.

lol, good question. I have wondered this myself.

Wamuli

Jeremy wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

It puts Vampires at Stage 4. Vampire Health Recovery is completely turned off at Stage 4.

Which means the Health Recovery on this drink is absolutely useless and non-functional. It literally does nothing for Vampires.

And Nobody who isn't a Vampire is going to make or use this Drink for any reason, considering the cost to make them compared to other foods/drinks and the obvious Vampire-specific Benefit.

So...I don't understand the purpose of Health Recovery on this Drink.

It should be replaced with either Magicka Recovery or Magicka Cost decrease. Or SOMETHING useful. Or just remove the Health Recovery and change the ingredients so it is cheaper to make or something.

lol, good question. I have wondered this myself.

Came to the forum today to find out why they left the health reg on cbm when changing vampires...now i know. as always: Inscrutable are the ways of ZOS in their infinite means to bring the message of the patch notes

Ippokrates

CBM is quite powerful even for a "normal food buff". What was it? 5k health + 4k magicka? It is a lot and it was even more before previous patch increased hp pool.

Now, it was quite clever for ZOS to add a 3rd bonus which could be used only by those who are not vampires - this way they made single drink that could be used by two completely different builds (yeah, cbm is quite useful for Arenas).

Wamuli

Ippokrates wrote: »

CBM is quite powerful even for a "normal food buff". What was it? 5k health + 4k magicka? It is a lot and it was even more before previous patch increased hp pool.

Now, it was quite clever for ZOS to add a 3rd bonus which could be used only by those who are not vampires - this way they made single drink that could be used by two completely different builds (yeah, cbm is quite useful for Arenas).

Yes, it is quite good for non-vamps. But it was created for vampires when the health recovery penalty was -50% and not -100% at vamp stage 4.
That is the whole point of this topic.^^
Now vampires have huge non-vamp skill cost incease, no health recovery and no food buff to compensate that, even the vampire set gear further increases the penalties now instead of just increasing damage of vampire skills.

Vevvev

Be cool if it actually gave you some of your health regeneration back if you are a vampire that scaled like the vampire lord set with it's health recovery return scaling based upon your current stage. Then have it increase the stage by 1 instead of going straight to 4 so you have much better control over your stage.