XP/transmute Rewards System Such a Mess

Rudrani

This system needs a total rework.

It was designed with two purposes:

1) Help casual players keep up with hardcore players (this is why there is stacking enlightenment, and this is why a rnd normal gives the same xp as a random vet)

2) Get people to do what the devs want them to do (this is why using the random queue gives you 10 transmutes in 5-15 minutes, but finishing a trial that it took 20 minutes to group and 40 minutes to run gives you 5 - or a monthlong campaign gives you what you could get from doing rnd normal on 5 characters in one day.

This is bad philosophy because

1) Casual players don't care about XP, and can't and don't even want to keep up with hardcore players, no matter what you try to do to spoon feed it to them. They don't enjoy playing the game competitively, why cater to allowing them to be competitive with the more competitive players? It makes not sense.

2) It's not fun to do what devs want us to do. Its fun to do exciting, interesting stuff. People stop playing games that arent fun.

How to fix:

1) Rethink the enlightenment system - change it to something that multiplies xp gain based on how hard we are grinding. For example, *0 bonus for the first time I kill something (or do anything that generates XP). *0.01 (additive) for next, if it is within N seconds of the first.

2) Make the rewards better for doing things that are more challenging

Hardmode frostvault should not give as many transmutes and xp as hardmode FG1.

Rudrani

"Tricking" people to use the random queue doesn't work.

All it does is put "fake tanks" who can solo the content in a group with people who couldn't solo a delve. (because the fake tanks are competitive players who need a whole bunch more cp and transmutes ASAP, and they only way they can do that effectively is to play in groups with people who dont even know what transmutes are for or why someone really needs so many).

This carrot-and-mule approach to the activity finder makes the game mindless for the competive player, and makes the experience baffling, frustrating and confrontational for the non-competive or new player.

The_Old_Goat

Who exactly is being tricked? I mean the xp and the rewards are right there in print on the random dungeon finder to be read by everybody, are they not? While I can agree that the first trial ran in a weeks period should give a similar amount of experience, I can also understand why they don't considering trials gear is a pretty nice reward in and of itself.

Rudrani

In short, what would be better for the game, and which may sound counter-intuitive to the devs or many players, is to STRATIFY the player base MORE.

Set things up so that op-competitive endgamers queue up for the same things (the hardest stuff, tht only they can manage, and that they want to do because it gives them GORGEOUS rewards), and let other types of players (roleplayers, questers, funlovers, etc.) queue up for the same types of things THEY want (easier, funner things - normal non-dlcs, for example), that don't give epic rewards, but who cares because they wouldn't know what to spend 100 transmutes on even if they got them.

Amottica

On the surface, it would appear that the system described lacked logic. However, most MMORPGs I have played incentivized doing a random dungeon every day. I expect it was to increase the likelihood that someone wanting to do a specific instance would find people in the GF to group with. As such it would be genius to offer more to those doing the random dungeon.

Heck, I do the random dungeon for that added XP and yes it drops other rewards as well. While i have not done any trials in this game during my two short months here, if that daily reward of XP (or other trinkets), or similar, is not offered for doing a trial then it would seem my experience across other MMORPGs holds true to ESO. If not then I gladly stand corrected. 100k XP on top of the other XP for the dungeon and such is pretty sweet.

ThorianB

1. the enlightenment system was designed as a catch up mechanic so that those that doing spend 12 hours a day playing video games at least get a bit of an edge on those that do. This applies to both casuals and new players. Grind should be rewarded with more encouragement to grind. I find grind in general to be an unhealthy mechanic that negatively affects competitive people as they feel compelled to be max before they think they can be competitive. This behavior should be discouraged not rewarded and for the most part ESO does a pretty good job at discouraging grind compared to most games.

2. I do agree with you on the second point. The crystals should be rewarded differently.

• 5 crystals for a normal dungeon.
• 10 crystals for a vet dungeon. 15 crystals for vet HM.
• 20 crystals for a normal trial, 40 for a vet trial. You can do 1 trial a day per character.
• 5 crystals for a pvp quest( BG, IC, Cyro). limit 3 per day per character.
• Crystals based on campaign and participation.
• 1 crystal for every world boss daily quest.

AlnilamE

ThorianB wrote: »

1. the enlightenment system was designed as a catch up mechanic so that those that doing spend 12 hours a day playing video games at least get a bit of an edge on those that do. This applies to both casuals and new players. Grind should be rewarded with more encouragement to grind. I find grind in general to be an unhealthy mechanic that negatively affects competitive people as they feel compelled to be max before they think they can be competitive. This behavior should be discouraged not rewarded and for the most part ESO does a pretty good job at discouraging grind compared to most games.

2. I do agree with you on the second point. The crystals should be rewarded differently.

• 5 crystals for a normal dungeon.
• 10 crystals for a vet dungeon. 15 crystals for vet HM.
• 20 crystals for a normal trial, 40 for a vet trial. You can do 1 trial a day per character.
• 5 crystals for a pvp quest( BG, IC, Cyro). limit 3 per day per character.
• Crystals based on campaign and participation.
• 1 crystal for every world boss daily quest.

The only thing I would change on this list is limit the trial reward to the weekly quest box. (And reset the weeklies every Sunday night so that people don't have to worry about timers)

DaveMoeDee

No, don't give more rewards for "grinding." If people want to do that, it is up to them. But don't reward that.

ThorianB wrote: »

...

2. I do agree with you on the second point. The crystals should be rewarded differently.

• 5 crystals for a normal dungeon.
• 10 crystals for a vet dungeon. 15 crystals for vet HM.
• 20 crystals for a normal trial, 40 for a vet trial. You can do 1 trial a day per character.
• 5 crystals for a pvp quest( BG, IC, Cyro). limit 3 per day per character.
• Crystals based on campaign and participation.
• 1 crystal for every world boss daily quest.

I personally don't want to add more outclassed people to the random vet queue. Let them stick with normals for the same number of crystals. Also, don't tie crystals to hardmode as it will mean even more people dropping from harder dungeons when they get them as vet randoms once they can tell that the people with them can't manage hard mode. The worst part of this proposal is that it adds even more incentive to drop ESO+ to remove DLC dungeons from random rotation.

Different rewards for the trials are fine. There is no pug queue for that being used for XP.

Merlin13KAGL

Except it doesn't take a month's worth of involvement to hit the 50 stone mark in a campaign, and you can do the same on all of your characters too.

~50 minutes to get 50 stones, per your own average, and assuming you actually land that 15 minute dungeon and not some map hell version or a DLC that takes that long to simply navigate.

You can then go on to do that same daily random on those characters and get the benefit of both.

If you're having trouble with earning XP's or stones either one, I hate to break it to you, but you're not quite as 'hard core' as you may think you are.

You also seem to neglect to account for the fact that you get other benefits beyond stones and XP from those other events, such as gold jewelry, otherwise unobtainable gear, etc.

Farming stones is far from a difficult task.

SirAndy

Yes, only "elite" players should get rewards!


I mean, what kind of game gives out "free" stuff to filthy casuals that play a game they paid for (and/or still pay for) in a leisurely manner for fun? What do they need transmute crystals for? Or XP for that matter?

ThorianB

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

No, don't give more rewards for "grinding." If people want to do that, it is up to them. But don't reward that.

ThorianB wrote: »

...

2. I do agree with you on the second point. The crystals should be rewarded differently.

• 5 crystals for a normal dungeon.
• 10 crystals for a vet dungeon. 15 crystals for vet HM.
• 20 crystals for a normal trial, 40 for a vet trial. You can do 1 trial a day per character.
• 5 crystals for a pvp quest( BG, IC, Cyro). limit 3 per day per character.
• Crystals based on campaign and participation.
• 1 crystal for every world boss daily quest.

I personally don't want to add more outclassed people to the random vet queue. Let them stick with normals for the same number of crystals. Also, don't tie crystals to hardmode as it will mean even more people dropping from harder dungeons when they get them as vet randoms once they can tell that the people with them can't manage hard mode. The worst part of this proposal is that it adds even more incentive to drop ESO+ to remove DLC dungeons from random rotation.

Different rewards for the trials are fine. There is no pug queue for that being used for XP.

And i would love for crystal runners to quit screwing up normal dungeon runs. Vet mode should pay more and players who are competitive enough to chase crystals should stay in vet dungeon queues.

Smitch_59

Solo player here. How about a single crystal for completing a normal dungeon solo? C'mon, throw me a bone!

lillybit

Rudrani wrote: »

1) Rethink the enlightenment system - change it to something that multiplies xp gain based on how hard we are grinding. For example, *0 bonus for the first time I kill something (or do anything that generates XP). *0.01 (additive) for next, if it is within N seconds of the first.

You do see that makes it literally impossible to level if you don't grind, don't you? Most people who pick up this game don't do it to immediatly grind straight out of the tutorial. End game players aren't enough to keep this game going if you drive away everyone that just wants to actually play a game.


Edit:
Sorry I missed you said bonus, but that doesn't make it less of a bad idea. You shouldn't be forced to grind as your only viable option.