More About the State of Battleground PVP

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO

Hi,

I'm all Yellow Stamina Necro with 2h & 1h + Shield, infused weapon dmg in Jewelry. Wearing Twilight/Eternal Vigor with Unleashed or Oblivion or what ever proc, sometimes amuse myself with Spriggan / New Moon. Malacath when crits are not involved with build. Artaneum for digestives etc.

But

Fair to say I have at least close to end game gear. So how it is possible:

That there are many times when I do not do any damage to my opponents or if normal Dizzy goes for lets say 5k sometimes you just don't do any visible damage. Ok yes a tank build + shields, but if 4 in our team dish out our best and we can hardly kill this guy? And after all this, this tank is still actually able to do enormous amount of damage back to us - great design?

I know 24/7 min/max players in any RPG PVP can have an advantage and follow with the good old "learn to play" jargon.

But

There is something badly wrong with the game if it doesn't allow you to do any damage in Artifact gear. We all love to see the Health bar drop when we hit/cast and smash.... don't we?

So there are these combinations of builds / gear and group play where, even in great gear, you cannot have an influence to the fight. Ok good for you geniuses, but for the rest of us it is frustrating game play with no reward after grinding "the best gear" and with the top gear one should be able to do damage no matter what, right

Do we need caps, diminishing returns, I don't really know, but not being able to influence the outcome "at all" in PVP game doesn't sound right.

Thanks for reading

WolfyRaps

StamCro is very strong in PVP. You must just learn how to use it. Keep your heals and buffs up all the time and time your bursts.

This is not PVE where you can spam dizzy and hope that the oponent will not outheal you. You have to put blastbones down and hit the dizzy when that hits then DB then executioner.. The burst window is less than one second.. And use Piercing Armor too because you need the 8k pen it provides..

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

StamCro is very strong in PVP. You must just learn how to use it. Keep your heals and buffs up all the time and time your bursts.

This is not PVE where you can spam dizzy and hope that the oponent will not outheal you. You have to put blastbones down and hit the dizzy when that hits then DB then executioner.. The burst window is less than one second.. And use Piercing Armor too because you need the 8k pen it provides..

I understand all this. What I am talking about is about builds that it seems you can not do damage to them.

All my buffs up / Invasion / Pierce Armor / Blast Bones / 3 x Dizzy

And opponents Health Bar didn't move?? This should not be possible, right? Yet still I encounter this type of set ups and they also can deal a lot of damage back.

And that PVE comment is just... If you take a look at most popular PVP games in all of them you Do damage if you manage to land a hit. Do you see what I'm aiming at?

WolfyRaps

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

StamCro is very strong in PVP. You must just learn how to use it. Keep your heals and buffs up all the time and time your bursts.

This is not PVE where you can spam dizzy and hope that the oponent will not outheal you. You have to put blastbones down and hit the dizzy when that hits then DB then executioner.. The burst window is less than one second.. And use Piercing Armor too because you need the 8k pen it provides..

I understand all this. What I am talking about is about builds that it seems you can not do damage to them.

All my buffs up / Invasion / Pierce Armor / Blast Bones / 3 x Dizzy

And opponents Health Bar didn't move?? This should not be possible, right? Yet still I encounter this type of set ups and they also can deal a lot of damage back.

And that PVE comment is just... If you take a look at most popular PVP games in all of them you Do damage if you manage to land a hit. Do you see what I'm aiming at?

You do damage to them. What they do is blocking and using hots. It's as simple as that..

Thats why you have to catch them with the block down. Also id you keep them deffensive and blocking they will run out of resources and you take no damage so they eventually have to atack. That is when, like in boxing,try to countertpunch and go for a big burst with dizy into blast/DB/exec .

I know you are trying to say that some builds are op but you are completly wrong in this situation. Stamcro is my strongest class in duels so I can assure you that they can do amazing burst.. You must just learn how to play it..

Brrrofski

WolfyRaps wrote: »

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

StamCro is very strong in PVP. You must just learn how to use it. Keep your heals and buffs up all the time and time your bursts.

This is not PVE where you can spam dizzy and hope that the oponent will not outheal you. You have to put blastbones down and hit the dizzy when that hits then DB then executioner.. The burst window is less than one second.. And use Piercing Armor too because you need the 8k pen it provides..

I understand all this. What I am talking about is about builds that it seems you can not do damage to them.

All my buffs up / Invasion / Pierce Armor / Blast Bones / 3 x Dizzy

And opponents Health Bar didn't move?? This should not be possible, right? Yet still I encounter this type of set ups and they also can deal a lot of damage back.

And that PVE comment is just... If you take a look at most popular PVP games in all of them you Do damage if you manage to land a hit. Do you see what I'm aiming at?

You do damage to them. What they do is blocking and using hots. It's as simple as that..

Thats why you have to catch them with the block down. Also id you keep them deffensive and blocking they will run out of resources and you take no damage so they eventually have to atack. That is when, like in boxing,try to countertpunch and go for a big burst with dizy into blast/DB/exec .

I know you are trying to say that some builds are op but you are completly wrong in this situation. Stamcro is my strongest class in duels so I can assure you that they can do amazing burst.. You must just learn how to play it..

Yeh, I'd agree with this.

People are just actively negating your damage.

Also, if you're using eternal vigor and crimson, it's a bit pot kettle. Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there.

Stam Necro is one of the strongest specs, maybe it's just a case of learning the class.

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO

"Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there."

Ok if I have Unleashed / Malacath / all Jewelry infused w-dmg / Merciless.... how should I uppgrade from there? If the 2nd set is offencive then I'm glass cannon

Thx

Rhaegar75

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

MurderMostFoul

The no visible damage to an enemy's bar is frustrating, but completely within the bounds of normal play. A very potent example I can think of is when I'm targeted with a meteor. The extreme telegraph allows me to prepare, and as long as I don't eat a stun before it lands, my block and heals readied in advance allows me to watch almost no dent to my health bar when meteor (one of the strongest single hits in the game) lands. And this is on medium armor toons without sword and board.

It's quite possible to have similar effects to less telegraphed abilities, like dizzy, as long as you are preemptively using defenses in combat.

Rhaegar75

I shall cut a long story short: either play the class you like and learn to play or go StamDen - they do everything other classes do but better!! They are already easy to play and If you want to be super cheesy you can roll a high health warden with proc sets: try it out if you are looking for a flavour of the month (decade really) class.

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

The person before you said that "Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there." that is why I listed Unleashed Malacath up. Started wondering that isn't it quite offensive already or what did he mean by what he said.

I am actually playing the Class that I like and when I chose Necro I didn't have a clue is it strong or not

Also I am not looking god mode to myself all I'm saying is that it feels weird that in top gear, fully buffed, you can land combo of 5-6 attacks and you don't see health bar drop on some builds. Even better is that 4 people can do that at the same time and still nothing and the target char can still dish out big damage numbers.

Waffennacht

Think of it this way: for everything you've put into dealing damage someone can put it into negating that damage.

And he'll probably hit u for around the same amount because ull have lower defense

Merforum

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

The person before you said that "Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there." that is why I listed Unleashed Malacath up. Started wondering that isn't it quite offensive already or what did he mean by what he said.

I am actually playing the Class that I like and when I chose Necro I didn't have a clue is it strong or not

Also I am not looking god mode to myself all I'm saying is that it feels weird that in top gear, fully buffed, you can land combo of 5-6 attacks and you don't see health bar drop on some builds. Even better is that 4 people can do that at the same time and still nothing and the target char can still dish out big damage numbers.

Love all the 'dude just git gud' responses. The problem is with the new changes, everyone has infinite sustain and 'healing skills based off Offensive stats', so they can heal/shield/block through anything then turn around and use the same cheesy combo on you at max offense. And they are wearing medium armor.

It is 10X worse than anything proc sets were doing. Where are all the people who were saying you should never have infinite mitigation and also high damage? You will noticed they don't even have to use SnB but a bow and still have massive mitigation, plus insane damage. I guess all the PVPers complaining finally got what they always wanted but I think BGs and every other PVP area will be as empty as cyro if these changes aren't toned down.

They really need crit/stat/heal/etc CAPs to get 'balance' because trying to change individual things like skills, gear, etc is way too complex, but CAPs can instantly eliminate stacking into any one thing.

Firstmep

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

The person before you said that "Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there." that is why I listed Unleashed Malacath up. Started wondering that isn't it quite offensive already or what did he mean by what he said.

I am actually playing the Class that I like and when I chose Necro I didn't have a clue is it strong or not

Also I am not looking god mode to myself all I'm saying is that it feels weird that in top gear, fully buffed, you can land combo of 5-6 attacks and you don't see health bar drop on some builds. Even better is that 4 people can do that at the same time and still nothing and the target char can still dish out big damage numbers.

Are you on pc? There are addons that can analyze combat data for you and then you can see how much dmg you actually did to your target.
I'd imagine the base combat text on console isn't very good for that.
Typically when you see someone's hp bar not move like this is Beacuse they have a lot of healing over time rolling and have good mitigation.
You can get both of those things without giving up too much damage.

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO

Thank you guys for all your answers and input! I'll chew this info and hopefully improve something

ketsparrowhawk

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

The person before you said that "Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there." that is why I listed Unleashed Malacath up. Started wondering that isn't it quite offensive already or what did he mean by what he said.

I am actually playing the Class that I like and when I chose Necro I didn't have a clue is it strong or not

Also I am not looking god mode to myself all I'm saying is that it feels weird that in top gear, fully buffed, you can land combo of 5-6 attacks and you don't see health bar drop on some builds. Even better is that 4 people can do that at the same time and still nothing and the target char can still dish out big damage numbers.

A product of a proc-META. You can build your character with 40k HP, tons of resistance, and hardly any offensive stats at all. Procs will deal the same damage regardless. That's how these tanky, high damage builds work. No investment into offensive stats. Just stack HP, equip 3 procs + malacath and gg. This patch is much better but those types of builds are still popular and totally viable.

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

The person before you said that "Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there." that is why I listed Unleashed Malacath up. Started wondering that isn't it quite offensive already or what did he mean by what he said.

I am actually playing the Class that I like and when I chose Necro I didn't have a clue is it strong or not

Also I am not looking god mode to myself all I'm saying is that it feels weird that in top gear, fully buffed, you can land combo of 5-6 attacks and you don't see health bar drop on some builds. Even better is that 4 people can do that at the same time and still nothing and the target char can still dish out big damage numbers.

A product of a proc-META. You can build your character with 40k HP, tons of resistance, and hardly any offensive stats at all. Procs will deal the same damage regardless. That's how these tanky, high damage builds work. No investment into offensive stats. Just stack HP, equip 3 procs + malacath and gg. This patch is much better but those types of builds are still popular and totally viable.

Kind of sad. Things like Zaan... no words.

Rhaegar75

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

sami.uotilaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

You are clearly playing a very strong class and using hyper cheesy sets.
[snip] you can always move to Stamdens with high health: at the moment they are the strongest available class even without procs.

My personal suggestion would be to play the class you fancy.

The person before you said that "Plus you don't have a lot of actually damage built in there." that is why I listed Unleashed Malacath up. Started wondering that isn't it quite offensive already or what did he mean by what he said.

I am actually playing the Class that I like and when I chose Necro I didn't have a clue is it strong or not

Also I am not looking god mode to myself all I'm saying is that it feels weird that in top gear, fully buffed, you can land combo of 5-6 attacks and you don't see health bar drop on some builds. Even better is that 4 people can do that at the same time and still nothing and the target char can still dish out big damage numbers.

A product of a proc-META. You can build your character with 40k HP, tons of resistance, and hardly any offensive stats at all. Procs will deal the same damage regardless. That's how these tanky, high damage builds work. No investment into offensive stats. Just stack HP, equip 3 procs + malacath and gg. This patch is much better but those types of builds are still popular and totally viable.

sadly I have to agree!!

On a different note, get a mate and find a duelling spot: then test test test.... test various options even if it feels repetitive. This way you may work out what happens if the other guy perma- blocks/heals/dodges etc.
You can then work out what skills you have to use to bypass whatever is getting in your way.

Xargas13

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Canned_Apples

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

popular and totally viable.

They’re not “totally viable.”
They’re meta.

WolfyRaps

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Xargas13

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

Firstmep

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

Maximizing mitigation and healing. The way the game works, it can often look like your opponent isn't taking much damage Beacuse they're healing back that fast.

Xargas13

Firstmep wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

Maximizing mitigation and healing. The way the game works, it can often look like your opponent isn't taking much damage Beacuse they're healing back that fast.

They way I see it, something is definitely wrong if they can heal as much as they have a pocket healer. Just been in a match where people were just spamming each other with abilities but no one could die. I was playing this game with big breaks, but always heard from others that in ESO with certain abilities and sets you can be practically immortal, now that I've reached high MMR I see what they meant, and it's just not fun...

Joy_Division

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

ketsparrowhawk

Canned_Apples wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

popular and totally viable.

They’re not “totally viable.”
They’re meta.

Indeed. I just meant that I’m finding stat-based builds are at least somewhat able to hang this patch. Bad choice of words.

Xargas13

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

Rhaegar75

Most necros I fight are high health with 3 proc sets doing the work...brainless but fairly effective especially as the skills required is sub-zero and they are using abilities that don't cost a lot of resources. conform and start harvesting kills.

Firstmep

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

These, takes no dmg and has insane burst comments are as old as the game, honestly.
Joy is a long time player, so am I, so maybe trust us when we say that skill does matter.
Some classes have it easier for sure, but you can play your stamcro I a way that still gets dunked on easily.

Xargas13

Firstmep wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

These, takes no dmg and has insane burst comments are as old as the game, honestly.
Joy is a long time player, so am I, so maybe trust us when we say that skill does matter.
Some classes have it easier for sure, but you can play your stamcro I a way that still gets dunked on easily.

Skill matters, often times it does at least, it's just that power disparity is too high, skill doesn't matter in the case I'm describing. I would say in this case it's a matter of knowledge of the game and not skill, I went through every guide and asked on the forums and no one seem to hint at the problem, I'm using hots and buffs, but still no use. The only useful advice from the player that I got is learn to use block and get malacath, which worked fine until now, and I swear, I rather quit the game then go into proc sets, because I know I will get bored rather quickly with that.

EDIT: maybe wrong buffs? What buffs could I possibly use to deal high damage and take less damage? Class magcro.

MurderMostFoul

Xargas13 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

These, takes no dmg and has insane burst comments are as old as the game, honestly.
Joy is a long time player, so am I, so maybe trust us when we say that skill does matter.
Some classes have it easier for sure, but you can play your stamcro I a way that still gets dunked on easily.

Skill matters, often times it does at least, it's just that power disparity is too high, skill doesn't matter in the case I'm describing. I would say in this case it's a matter of knowledge of the game and not skill, I went through every guide and asked on the forums and no one seem to hint at the problem, I'm using hots and buffs, but still no use. The only useful advice from the player that I got is learn to use block and get malacath, which worked fine until now, and I swear, I rather quit the game then go into proc sets, because I know I will get bored rather quickly with that.

EDIT: maybe wrong buffs? What buffs could I possibly use to deal high damage and take less damage? Class magcro.

I rarely see deadly magcros in BGs on Xbox NA. I'm sure it's doable, but given my lack of exposure to them, I don't really know how it would be accomplished. However, you can make a magcro ridiculously tanky, and throw out lots of heels. If you're dedicated to that class, I'd say tanky heals is it's optimal role in the current BG meta.

Canned_Apples

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

popular and totally viable.

They’re not “totally viable.”
They’re meta.

Indeed. I just meant that I’m finding stat-based builds are at least somewhat able to hang this patch. Bad choice of words.

I've tried multiple sets, but there's no real counter to proc sets, especially if you cannot purge.
Multiple proc sets and malacath apply too much "pressure" by spamming one skill.

Merciless charge--> dot- aoe dot- proc one- proc two- poison one- poison two- poisoned- vate staff (all with malacath for 25% more damage)