Eternal Vigor - your thoughts

Rhaegar75

Lately I've fallen in love with Eternal Vigor. I've being using it on a StamDK and I think I will extend it to most of my other toons too. I'm also trying a Magplar with Stuhn and EV...so far I like it

I've paired it with a damage set and so far I like it even if I had to sacrifice either malacath or a monster set. I've tried it as a backbar but the choice doesn't seem to agree with my playstyle.

Do you like EV? How do you use it? what sets do you pair it with. I'm particularly interested in the 'normal classes' (DK, Plars, NBs, Sorcs)

MurderMostFoul

EV is a very good set for any brawler type character that makes frequent use of its off-resource pool. I think it was even better last patch, but now with high er base resources, it's not quite as uniquely powerful

baselesschart

EV is super good. Its versatility in what class you can use it for is unreal, it does all your sustain for you, you literally do not need to build in sustain anywhere else, so in that regard it is a bit overtuned. With EV and pots, it makes it even more brainless for wardens and necros to sustain and stay alive, and hopefully the devs are trying to move the pvp scene away from that.

Firstmep

Definetly top tier set, also the only set in the game where I have 5 sets of jewelery of it xD.
Love it on stamplar too, with stuhns, the mag recov helps you run toppling and still enough Magicka left to cleanse etc.
The sheer sustain you get from this set allows for building dmg literally everywhere else.
Ironically, I don't run it on any spec I use heavy armor on, as I usalyally sustain with heavy attacks on those.
That being said, I wouldn't mind if they removed the max hp bonus from it, so other sustain sets can compete with it better.

Waffennacht

I liked it a lot more last patch.

The health regen aspect of it has lost value due to the high burst nature of the current meta

The other values are all very nice; though the off resource value deminished slightly as @MurderMostFoul put it

For these reasons I have replaced EV on most my builds in favor of either a proc set or defense set (OW I dont do much but I would pick impreg there)

Mr_Gallows

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

MurderMostFoul

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Mr_Gallows

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

MurderMostFoul

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

I've not heard any outcry about regen. Stat regen, like most other stats, requires investment, which means lower stats elsewhere.

I'd be careful about calling for nerfs, you'll get the PvEers all worked up.

Mr_Gallows

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

I've not heard any outcry about regen. Stat regen, like most other stats, requires investment, which means lower stats elsewhere.

I'd be careful about calling for nerfs, you'll get the PvEers all worked up.

4k+ regen is broken and it destroys PvE balance too.

With the current systen 2k should be the max.

MurderMostFoul

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

I've not heard any outcry about regen. Stat regen, like most other stats, requires investment, which means lower stats elsewhere.

I'd be careful about calling for nerfs, you'll get the PvEers all worked up.

4k+ regen is broken and it destroys PvE balance too.

With the current systen 2k should be the max.

If you have over 4K health recovery, you're just a tank. I don't see how that is a problem. And there's almost no reason to run 4K recovery on stam or mag, you're just wasting stats at that point.

I fail to see how any of this ruins gameplay.

Mr_Gallows

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

I've not heard any outcry about regen. Stat regen, like most other stats, requires investment, which means lower stats elsewhere.

I'd be careful about calling for nerfs, you'll get the PvEers all worked up.

4k+ regen is broken and it destroys PvE balance too.

With the current systen 2k should be the max.

If you have over 4K health recovery, you're just a tank. I don't see how that is a problem. And there's almost no reason to run 4K recovery on stam or mag, you're just wasting stats at that point.

I fail to see how any of this ruins gameplay.

Because you can still do tons of damage and killing someone with 4k regen and heals requires game breaking bursts.

If the game really had a balance along the lines of

90% damage - 10% defense (regen etc)

Or 90% defense - 10% damage

Then it would maybe work. But the game does in no way have such a balance.

But still having passive regen so high that you can take damage and just see it come back super fast is broken as a defensive mechanism in terms of gameplay.

NordSwordnBoard

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

I've not heard any outcry about regen. Stat regen, like most other stats, requires investment, which means lower stats elsewhere.

I'd be careful about calling for nerfs, you'll get the PvEers all worked up.

4k+ regen is broken and it destroys PvE balance too.

With the current systen 2k should be the max.

If you have over 4K health recovery, you're just a tank. I don't see how that is a problem. And there's almost no reason to run 4K recovery on stam or mag, you're just wasting stats at that point.

I fail to see how any of this ruins gameplay.

Because you can still do tons of damage and killing someone with 4k regen and heals requires game breaking bursts.

If the game really had a balance along the lines of

90% damage - 10% defense (regen etc)

Or 90% defense - 10% damage

Then it would maybe work. But the game does in no way have such a balance.

But still having passive regen so high that you can take damage and just see it come back super fast is broken as a defensive mechanism in terms of gameplay.

I think the strength of health regen now is part limited sources of defile in Cyrodiil, and part that defile is relatively weak compared to how it was the past.

I'd rather buff defile than nerf Eternal Vgor.

Mr_Gallows

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

It's a good set, but do not like it. Super fast health regen sucks for gameplay. In general proc sets are cancer in this game.

Most people really only take issue with damage and healing procs. ZOS has defined proc more broadly with its cyrodiil restrictions (anything other than straight stats), but there was not a general dissatisfaction from the community about conditional sets like EV. EV is powerful, but it's not problematic like damage and healing proc sets.

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

I've not heard any outcry about regen. Stat regen, like most other stats, requires investment, which means lower stats elsewhere.

I'd be careful about calling for nerfs, you'll get the PvEers all worked up.

4k+ regen is broken and it destroys PvE balance too.

With the current systen 2k should be the max.

If you have over 4K health recovery, you're just a tank. I don't see how that is a problem. And there's almost no reason to run 4K recovery on stam or mag, you're just wasting stats at that point.

I fail to see how any of this ruins gameplay.

Because you can still do tons of damage and killing someone with 4k regen and heals requires game breaking bursts.

If the game really had a balance along the lines of

90% damage - 10% defense (regen etc)

Or 90% defense - 10% damage

Then it would maybe work. But the game does in no way have such a balance.

But still having passive regen so high that you can take damage and just see it come back super fast is broken as a defensive mechanism in terms of gameplay.

I think the strength of health regen now is part limited sources of defile in Cyrodiil, and part that defile is relatively weak compared to how it was the past.

I'd rather buff defile than nerf Eternal Vgor.

No that would puhish people without access to defile or or would make insane regen even more of a requirement than it is now.

Instead a cap of 2k. You can get it from EV (some of it) og you can get it from the red CP. That would also make that particular CP less dominant. Dots, damage etc. balance well with a 2k regen max... but not greater than that.

Aside from that the same issues with stamina and magica exist where you can really take the whole resource management game out of the equation.

It's just bad.

But EV is a good set, if the game was generally balanced with regen. It's an interresting set... but right now it just makes a bad problem worse.

When your base regen comes close to or even outperforms your best HOT, then it's just a broken system.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

Am I the only one who misses soft caps?

And am I the only one who thinks a lot of this stuff would fix itself if they got rid of Battle Spirit?

Mr_Gallows

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

Regens are generally out of control and it's ruining gameplay. EV is one cause. If we had a hard cap on regens (max 2k), then EV may be used as an option if you wanted a different red star.

Regens should be reworked to being a percentage of your stat with each tick and then there should be a hard cap on max regen percentage per tick.

Am I the only one who misses soft caps?

And am I the only one who thinks a lot of this stuff would fix itself if they got rid of Battle Spirit?

Battle spirit is needed with the current balance or lack of balance between damage and healing. Well it's really healing and regen that is the issue, because balancing damage so you can kill without it being over the top is super hard. Hitting the opponent once is pointless, because you can regen so incredibly fast. If healing/regen was a lot slower, damage could be lowered and more skills with interresting side bonuses could be viable because people can't heal back up instantly.

Back in the arly days before regens were too high gameplay was better... not perfect - back then healing should also have been toned down.

So for battle spirit, they should set a cap on regen. It can't just be a flat percentage... that would not work. Even for healing and damage a flat percentage isn't great.

StarOfElyon

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Lately I've fallen in love with Eternal Vigor. I've being using it on a StamDK and I think I will extend it to most of my other toons too. I'm also trying a Magplar with Stuhn and EV...so far I like it

I've paired it with a damage set and so far I like it even if I had to sacrifice either malacath or a monster set. I've tried it as a backbar but the choice doesn't seem to agree with my playstyle.

Do you like EV? How do you use it? what sets do you pair it with. I'm particularly interested in the 'normal classes' (DK, Plars, NBs, Sorcs)

My thoughts on Eternal Vigor (reposting from another thread):

Eternal Vigor needs to be brought in line too.

Eternal Vigor:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Not only does it give a line of health but it also gives other bonuses beyond the standard. Keeping in mind that sustain bonuses are typically pretty stacked, at most, the set should give you:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 300 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 300 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

And to remove the proc condition, I would adjust the set this way:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 167 Magicka Recovery, Adds 167 Stamina Recovery, Adds 167 Health Recovery



While I'm at it, Amber Plasm should get buffed to be on par with Eternal Vigor.

Amber Plasm:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 657 Spell Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 276 Magicka Recovery, Adds 276 Stamina Recovery, Adds 276 Health Recovery

Increase those values to: Adds 300 Magicka Recovery, Adds 300 Stamina Recovery, Adds 300 Health Recovery.

Mr_Gallows

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Lately I've fallen in love with Eternal Vigor. I've being using it on a StamDK and I think I will extend it to most of my other toons too. I'm also trying a Magplar with Stuhn and EV...so far I like it

I've paired it with a damage set and so far I like it even if I had to sacrifice either malacath or a monster set. I've tried it as a backbar but the choice doesn't seem to agree with my playstyle.

Do you like EV? How do you use it? what sets do you pair it with. I'm particularly interested in the 'normal classes' (DK, Plars, NBs, Sorcs)

My thoughts on Eternal Vigor (reposting from another thread):

Eternal Vigor needs to be brought in line too.

Eternal Vigor:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Not only does it give a line of health but it also gives other bonuses beyond the standard. Keeping in mind that sustain bonuses are typically pretty stacked, at most, the set should give you:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 300 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 300 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

And to remove the proc condition, I would adjust the set this way:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 167 Magicka Recovery, Adds 167 Stamina Recovery, Adds 167 Health Recovery



While I'm at it, Amber Plasm should get buffed to be on par with Eternal Vigor.

Amber Plasm:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 657 Spell Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 276 Magicka Recovery, Adds 276 Stamina Recovery, Adds 276 Health Recovery

Increase those values to: Adds 300 Magicka Recovery, Adds 300 Stamina Recovery, Adds 300 Health Recovery.

Yes exactly. It is so way overtuned that it's a joke.

Generally regen is too high. For magica/stamina it can destroy the whole resource management element of the game, but for health it just destroys the game and any chance of finding a meaningful damage balance

StarOfElyon

I think Mag & Stam regen only seems high because proc sets are doing people's work for them. On stat based builds, sustain is tough to manage (at least it is for me).

Mr_Gallows

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I think Mag & Stam regen only seems high because proc sets are doing people's work for them. On stat based builds, sustain is tough to manage (at least it is for me).

I think 2K shoulz be a hard cap on regen. After that it begins to break down. But yes if you have 2k or less regen on stamina/magica you do have to play the resource management game.

For health 2k is still a bit much combined with heals, skill effects etc. Then try 4k+ Game completely broken.