The stamplar PvP experience

notyuu

Ever since the changes made to templar in the stonethorn update, stamplar in PvP has gone from tricky but useable to an outright pile of garbage with the adverage PvP encounter between two players of roughly the same skill and rank going as follows



and I simply have to ask, is having them this terrible in PvP an intentional choise or are we just simply forgotten about? if it's the former, then make and distribute class change tokens, problem solved, no more stamplars, if it's the latter...well, one can only hope blackwood will be kinder than the last six months.

Dunning_Kruger

Yes stamplar is terrible nobody should play them.

Give us major mending and buff backlash so I can finally do damage and tank

BXR_Lonestar

I've been playing a stamplar in PVP since the 2.0 changes, and while I absolutely love my build (he's tanky AF and has a ton of weapon power), the negatives of the stamplar are glaring. In my experience, I can dominate a fight 1v1 or 1v2 for a time, and then when I have someone worn down, they simply just run away (escape potions, go invis, lighting bolt escape, etc.). I don't have any good CC options to stop them from getting away, and gap closers are wonky at best with the way cyrodil lag is. I can't count on my guy actually connecting even if critical charge/ or similar gap closer actually works. Binding javeline is just weak, and even if it does stun, they're back up and healing or running by the time I get to them.

I could go with swift jewelry traits, but then I give up some survivability and damage, which means less healing and less ability to kill, or less sustain. Rather than go that route, I try to team up with a DK who has far more crowd control options, and between the two of us, we can usually kill people. But as a solo class? Not enough CC or gap-closing ability, and bow is too weak to justify its use over a s/b backbar.

Firstmep

Step 1. Use a gap closer or get more movespeed. This isnt 2014, even magDKs are driving Ferraris now.
Step 2. Have unparalled situational averness due to not being able to take pressure from more than 1 decent enemy.
Step 3. Die anyway.

Jokes aside, I'm doing fine on stamplar atm, it's not ideal or even great, but I've played this class since launch so I can still kick 90% of this games pvpers behind.
The other 10%(actual good players), yeah if it's necro or warden it's gonna be hard one for sure, Necro more so atm.

I really would like some group utility to be brought to stamplar, like change hasty prayer to a yellow vigor like aoe hot, and keep the expedition.
Or something.
Not to mention empowering sweep, just remove the empower already, no one uses this ult in Pve anyway.
Make the ticks well tick every 1 second and give it a little bit more dmg.
Wham, bam done.
Backlash? Yeah I dunno what they can do to make that skill worth using at this point, I always hated how long it took to charge up, even when it was hitting hard ish.

ealdwin

Firstmep wrote: »

Step 1. Use a gap closer or get more movespeed. This isnt 2014, even magDKs are driving Ferraris now.
Step 2. Have unparalled situational averness due to not being able to take pressure from more than 1 decent enemy.
Step 3. Die anyway.

Jokes aside, I'm doing fine on stamplar atm, it's not ideal or even great, but I've played this class since launch so I can still kick 90% of this games pvpers behind.
The other 10%(actual good players), yeah if it's necro or warden it's gonna be hard one for sure, Necro more so atm.

I really would like some group utility to be brought to stamplar, like change hasty prayer to a yellow vigor like aoe hot, and keep the expedition.
Or something.
Not to mention empowering sweep, just remove the empower already, no one uses this ult in Pve anyway.
Make the ticks well tick every 1 second and give it a little bit more dmg.
Wham, bam done.
Backlash? Yeah I dunno what they can do to make that skill worth using at this point, I always hated how long it took to charge up, even when it was hitting hard ish.

I'd like to see the damage formula for Radial Sweep adjusted. Currently it operates with approximately 3X damage on the first hit, with 1.5X damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds, resulting in 3X + 1.5X + 1.5X + 1.5X (= 7.5X). IMO, it should be adjusted to do 4.5X on the initial hit for more burst, followed by 1X every 2 seconds for 6 seconds (or 0.5X every second for 6 seconds, based on your previous suggestion.), so 4.5X + 1X + 1X + 1X = 7.5X (or 4.5X + 0.5X * 6 = 7.5X).

If Templars were okay with shifting away from huge burst through Backlash, and into more high-pressure that gradually increases until Radial Sweep (or other burst) is ready, then Backlash could be adjusted into a DoT that increases it's damage by 5% per tick. POTL could increase that damage increase to 7% per tick and PL could heal yourself allies within 6m of the enemy for the duration.

If Eclipse was reworked, and became a self-applied skill that either buffed the caster or punished attackers, it could provide better utility. Especially if Unstable Core functioned like a 4 second self-applied bomb that scaled off of Highest stat, the ability could provide more controllable/reliable burst. Living Dark could also be adjusted to just heal every second (and scale off of Max Health?) rather than when damaged to be a bit more reliable for survivability.

Changing Hasty Ritual to be a PBAoE Stamina heal seems like a no-brainer, especially when considering a similar-ish skill exists for Wardens through Fungal Growth. Plus the Minor Expedition would mean group utility.

Firstmep

ealdwin wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Step 1. Use a gap closer or get more movespeed. This isnt 2014, even magDKs are driving Ferraris now.
Step 2. Have unparalled situational averness due to not being able to take pressure from more than 1 decent enemy.
Step 3. Die anyway.

Jokes aside, I'm doing fine on stamplar atm, it's not ideal or even great, but I've played this class since launch so I can still kick 90% of this games pvpers behind.
The other 10%(actual good players), yeah if it's necro or warden it's gonna be hard one for sure, Necro more so atm.

I really would like some group utility to be brought to stamplar, like change hasty prayer to a yellow vigor like aoe hot, and keep the expedition.
Or something.
Not to mention empowering sweep, just remove the empower already, no one uses this ult in Pve anyway.
Make the ticks well tick every 1 second and give it a little bit more dmg.
Wham, bam done.
Backlash? Yeah I dunno what they can do to make that skill worth using at this point, I always hated how long it took to charge up, even when it was hitting hard ish.

I'd like to see the damage formula for Radial Sweep adjusted. Currently it operates with approximately 3X damage on the first hit, with 1.5X damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds, resulting in 3X + 1.5X + 1.5X + 1.5X (= 7.5X). IMO, it should be adjusted to do 4.5X on the initial hit for more burst, followed by 1X every 2 seconds for 6 seconds (or 0.5X every second for 6 seconds, based on your previous suggestion.), so 4.5X + 1X + 1X + 1X = 7.5X (or 4.5X + 0.5X * 6 = 7.5X).

If Templars were okay with shifting away from huge burst through Backlash, and into more high-pressure that gradually increases until Radial Sweep (or other burst) is ready, then Backlash could be adjusted into a DoT that increases it's damage by 5% per tick. POTL could increase that damage increase to 7% per tick and PL could heal yourself allies within 6m of the enemy for the duration.

If Eclipse was reworked, and became a self-applied skill that either buffed the caster or punished attackers, it could provide better utility. Especially if Unstable Core functioned like a 4 second self-applied bomb that scaled off of Highest stat, the ability could provide more controllable/reliable burst. Living Dark could also be adjusted to just heal every second (and scale off of Max Health?) rather than when damaged to be a bit more reliable for survivability.

Changing Hasty Ritual to be a PBAoE Stamina heal seems like a no-brainer, especially when considering a similar-ish skill exists for Wardens through Fungal Growth. Plus the Minor Expedition would mean group utility.

That's how I already play my magplar, so do a lot of ppl.
Layer solar barrage, crescent and sweeps for aoe pressure. If reflective light wasn't such a *** skill I'd throw that in too.

But on stamplar it just doesn't work, empowering doesn't hit hard enough, and the class has no staying power in fights anyway.

Living dark isn't terrible right now with the extra stats we have, but it's not ideal.
The only way to make full use of it, if you are being hammered by multiple people and your holding block.
Other wise not that great.

And yes, healing ritual needs to be a hot already, this has been requested so many times already.. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Neoauspex

That flow chart is awesome. Honestly been thinking about using Vateshran DW on Stamplar, seems like it might solve or at least mitigate a few of Stamplars' issues. I mean, still worst passives in the game so the chart is still gonna be valid...

Firstmep

Neoauspex wrote: »

That flow chart is awesome. Honestly been thinking about using Vateshran DW on Stamplar, seems like it might solve or at least mitigate a few of Stamplars' issues. I mean, still worst passives in the game so the chart is still gonna be valid...

Vate dw on stamplar? How would that work?
I used that on stamsorc for a bit and it was okay, but I could streak behind ppl to actually land it.

Neoauspex

Firstmep wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

That flow chart is awesome. Honestly been thinking about using Vateshran DW on Stamplar, seems like it might solve or at least mitigate a few of Stamplars' issues. I mean, still worst passives in the game so the chart is still gonna be valid...

Vate dw on stamplar? How would that work?
I used that on stamsorc for a bit and it was okay, but I could streak behind ppl to actually land it.

Ya taking advantage of flanking won't be optimal. But range spammable and/or gap closer might eliminate the failed chasing part of the flow chart.

Firstmep

Neoauspex wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

That flow chart is awesome. Honestly been thinking about using Vateshran DW on Stamplar, seems like it might solve or at least mitigate a few of Stamplars' issues. I mean, still worst passives in the game so the chart is still gonna be valid...

Vate dw on stamplar? How would that work?
I used that on stamsorc for a bit and it was okay, but I could streak behind ppl to actually land it.

Ya taking advantage of flanking won't be optimal. But range spammable and/or gap closer might eliminate the failed chasing part of the flow chart.

I mean, most stamplars I know already run gapcloser, myself included, I think that was more of a joke really xD.

Feizao

when do you roll dodge/kite, potion, repentance?

Lynxyn

notyuu wrote: »

Ever since the changes made to templar in the stonethorn update, stamplar in PvP has gone from tricky but useable to an outright pile of garbage with the adverage PvP encounter between two players of roughly the same skill and rank going as follows



and I simply have to ask, is having them this terrible in PvP an intentional choise or are we just simply forgotten about? if it's the former, then make and distribute class change tokens, problem solved, no more stamplars, if it's the latter...well, one can only hope blackwood will be kinder than the last six months.

I've seen stamplars do decent this patch. The build from kristofereso comes to mind where you have tons of survivability and huge amounts of weapon damage that make your vigors massive and your abilities hurt. That being said you're no stamblade, stamcro, stamden or magsorc, but at least you have kneecaps because you're a stam class unlike magblade. From my testing I have to go glass cannon full light armor 23k health just to come within 10% of the damage of stamblades with 30k+ health. The hardest I've hit someone is a merciless resolve proc for 15k the second his major ward wore off and they weren't blocking or dodge rolling and I had ele drain on them. Meanwhile I've seen stamblades insta kill bulky dks at like 30k hp with 13k incaps into crushing weapon surprise attack and exe.

Basically any action you take on magblade leads to "try to cloak away" which then leads to "do they have reveal pots or another way to break cloak?" If yes then you die if no then you run away because you can't kill them and they can kill you.

gariondavey

Nice flow chart XD. As for backlash, I think it just needs to be a delay damage skill with a tooltip similar to curse or blastbones. No damage stored thing, just scale with wd and spell power.

Firstmep

gariondavey wrote: »

Nice flow chart XD. As for backlash, I think it just needs to be a delay damage skill with a tooltip similar to curse or blastbones. No damage stored thing, just scale with wd and spell power.

Pretty much.
This dmg store mechanic has always been messy, and Zos could never balance it.

Hotdog_23

Give back lash and it morphs the same power as Necro’s homing missile [Blastbones] and a bug’s life [Scorch] from Wardens with a 2.5 second count down would help a lot. Both the homer missile and bugs life can hit almost hard as an ultimate that is ready to hit you again in 2.5-3 seconds.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

fakingfocused

I've had templar since the release. My one and only char. And this is not even fun at the moment. Tried so many different gear combinations. Feel like half the time my abilities don't even fire or connect. It takes so much work trying to get the class even remotely working for you. I miss playing the in your face high pressure killer it used to be. At this point I don't know if it's my build or lag from not being able to be hardwired at the moment. What gear combos are any of you finding remotely successful?

Joy_Division

I tried playing a stamplar, but my takeway is why would anyone would play this spec.

If you play stam sorc, you are fast, have a good burst skill, and better healing.
If you play stam NB, you have shade, have a good burst skill, and a defensive skill that either makes you invis or gives you healing that blows the "healing" class out of the water.
If you play stamden, you have been top tier since release
If you play stamcro, you have been top tier since release.
If you play stam DK, you are like a stamplar also stuck playing a class designed for a different game, but at least you got a strong ultimate and innate health restoration bonuses.

Like, what does it do aside from having yellow skills?

• Magplars took the best ulti, so you're stuck using the non-class dawnbreaker.
• You're the "healing" class, but you've got the most awkward (and probably worst) healing skills of every spec in the game.
• Your burst skill is best against bad opponents (i.e., those who have no defense or cant pressure you) and worst against good opponents, which is the opposite of what you'd want.
• Stamplars are so desperate to fill out the class holes, many slot a magicka skill in Toppling Charge; meanwhile, Wardens and Stamcros do just fine without resorting to such measures.
• Look at Sprit Mender and now look at Eclipse. If you're going to argue with me that Eclipse isn't all that bad, look at the two skills again.
• Once stamplars had a cleanse. Now two better designed classes do that too and stamplars had theirs nerfed by cost increase and removal of one of its effects.
• Repentance sort of is a unique skill. But you can only repent your enemy after you win the fight. Meanwhile the necromancer you are fighting is able to use her self generated corpses while in a fight.

All they do differently/usefully is Jab-Jab-Jab-Jab. Isn't that what a Magplar does?

Firstmep

Joy_Division wrote: »

I tried playing a stamplar, but my takeway is why would anyone would play this spec.

If you play stam sorc, you are fast, have a good burst skill, and better healing.
If you play stam NB, you have shade, have a good burst skill, and a defensive skill that either makes you invis or gives you healing that blows the "healing" class out of the water.
If you play stamden, you have been top tier since release
If you play stamcro, you have been top tier since release.
If you play stam DK, you are like a stamplar also stuck playing a class designed for a different game, but at least you got a strong ultimate and innate health restoration bonuses.

Like, what does it do aside from having yellow skills?

• Magplars took the best ulti, so you're stuck using the non-class dawnbreaker.
• You're the "healing" class, but you've got the most awkward (and probably worst) healing skills of every spec in the game.
• Your burst skill is best against bad opponents (i.e., those who have no defense or cant pressure you) and worst against good opponents, which is the opposite of what you'd want.
• Stamplars are so desperate to fill out the class holes, many slot a magicka skill in Toppling Charge; meanwhile, Wardens and Stamcros do just fine without resorting to such measures.
• Look at Sprit Mender and now look at Eclipse. If you're going to argue with me that Eclipse isn't all that bad, look at the two skills again.
• Once stamplars had a cleanse. Now two better designed classes do that too and stamplars had theirs nerfed by cost increase and removal of one of its effects.
• Repentance sort of is a unique skill. But you can only repent your enemy after you win the fight. Meanwhile the necromancer you are fighting is able to use her self generated corpses while in a fight.

All they do differently/usefully is Jab-Jab-Jab-Jab. Isn't that what a Magplar does?

And Beacuse jabs is good aganist bad players, people will come to these forums and shout OP, and stamplar gets a nerf.

And there are so many small bit logical changes they could make to make Templar as a class better, but not op.
Take empowering sweep:
Remove the empower buff, make the ticks go off every 1 sec and slightly increase their dmg.
Wham bam aoe pressure ult stamplars can use to layer with jabs.
Make healing ritual a yellow vigor like aoe heal, give it one Stam morph with minor expedition.
And so on..

Grimlok_S

Finding success with Crescent Sweep Stamplar atm, but that really just lends to Joy's point that we're Magplar Lite without the healing or defensive capability.

Firstmep

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Finding success with Crescent Sweep Stamplar atm, but that really just lends to Joy's point that we're Magplar Lite without the healing or defensive capability.

I was pondering this myself the other day too.

I can pretty much run the same 2-3 sets on both stam and mag and have literally the same playstyle, bar a couple of skills.

Im actually running a weaker dot-ish build on stamplar just to avoid doing the same thing on both.

I'm really hoping for some positive changes, necros and wardens are so far ahead its a joke.
Both dlc classes have more healing, mitigation and burst.
On my magcro I can run 3 offensive sets and still feel like a tank, on magplar I have to run at least one, but really 2 defensive sets and even then if I turn on the offensive the wrong time I get deleted before I can finish a single channel of jabs.
We were promised that the original classes would be brought back up to the same lvl as the dlc ones, years ago, and nothing happened.
Looking at necro, they have multiple 5pc set bonuses just in their passives, meanwhile Templar gets 2 *** seconds on dawns wrath abilities?
Like who even thinks this is even remotely balanced?

Speaks

I love Templar its hands down my favourite class but our passives are trash for sure.

I recently bought Necro and leveled it to 50 and it's crazy how many benefits they get from skills and passives. Warden too.

But I just struggle to stay committed to these classes. They make great alts but I always return to the Light.

Toppling Charge into Jabs is pretty good. Sweep is better than Dawnbreaker IMO. I don't hate this though, the hybrid kind of feel is cool. I'm biased though because I'm a High Elf Stamplar so I like that my extra mana isnt wasted lol.

I wouldn't mind Repentance being totally reworked. Its powerful but it's very situational. Making it a more reliable source of Healing and Regen would be nice. Maybe when there's a corpse, you can activate it to massively increase Regen for a few seconds. And maybe you can use it on friendly corpses too as a sort of "Avenging Wrath"-type thing that a lot of Paladins have in other games.

I think Stamina Jabs should have passive healing too. Maybe Magicka could get more range or something to compensate, idk.

Casting Dawn's Wrath abilities should give a few seconds of major or minor expedition. We are the Long Arm of the Law. We are Magnus flying across the sky.

Idk I suck at theorycrafting but these are some thoughts I have had.

fred4

I can't play stamplar either. The lack of ongoing heals while being open when channeling Jabs is not something I have learnt how to deal with. However I have been killed by stamplars on occasion, caught off guard by the raw damage Jabs can do. I'm talking 2K+ non-crit and 3K+ crit for each individual hit in IC ... against a squishy character, but still. This has led me to look into what might cause Jabs to do that much damage. A possible answer is Deadly Strike. Because we all got 1K extra weapon damage this patch, this has IMO somewhat devalued going for further weapon damage and elevated percentage-based sets, such as Deadly Strike and Shield Breaker:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=204766

That build is a concept. I'm not planning to pursue it at this time. I have tried something similar, but notably without vampire. It didn't work for me. It's still a pressure build and I ended up feeling far too squishy. My DK got annihilated by a Vateshran 2H stamsorc burst build yesterday and so would this stamplar. I do find it notable, however, that Jabs (if you can land them all) is in the same ballpark as Executioner in execute range on this build, which is why I left that skill out. Note Channeled Focus and Engine Guardian are there to support Mist Form, Toppling Charge and Extended Ritual. You may need more resistances. Like I said, it's just a concept.

Brrrofski

Speaks wrote: »

I love Templar its hands down my favourite class but our passives are trash for sure.

I recently bought Necro and leveled it to 50 and it's crazy how many benefits they get from skills and passives. Warden too.

But I just struggle to stay committed to these classes. They make great alts but I always return to the Light.

Toppling Charge into Jabs is pretty good. Sweep is better than Dawnbreaker IMO. I don't hate this though, the hybrid kind of feel is cool. I'm biased though because I'm a High Elf Stamplar so I like that my extra mana isnt wasted lol.

I wouldn't mind Repentance being totally reworked. Its powerful but it's very situational. Making it a more reliable source of Healing and Regen would be nice. Maybe when there's a corpse, you can activate it to massively increase Regen for a few seconds. And maybe you can use it on friendly corpses too as a sort of "Avenging Wrath"-type thing that a lot of Paladins have in other games.

I think Stamina Jabs should have passive healing too. Maybe Magicka could get more range or something to compensate, idk.

Casting Dawn's Wrath abilities should give a few seconds of major or minor expedition. We are the Long Arm of the Law. We are Magnus flying across the sky.

Idk I suck at theorycrafting but these are some thoughts I have had.

And that's another point - casting a dawn's wrath ability for ult.

I don't use one anymore. They made POTL irrelevant with the new status effect. The skill itself adds very little burst and you may as well be telling the person you put it on "hi there, I'm going to use my ultimate on you just before that thing on your head runs out, please don't move from in front of me or block it, thanks".

Firstmep

fred4 wrote: »

I can't play stamplar either. The lack of ongoing heals while being open when channeling Jabs is not something I have learnt how to deal with. However I have been killed by stamplars on occasion, caught off guard by the raw damage Jabs can do. I'm talking 2K+ non-crit and 3K+ crit for each individual hit in IC ... against a squishy character, but still. This has led me to look into what might cause Jabs to do that much damage. A possible answer is Deadly Strike. Because we all got 1K extra weapon damage this patch, this has IMO somewhat devalued going for further weapon damage and elevated percentage-based sets, such as Deadly Strike and Shield Breaker:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=204766

That build is a concept. I'm not planning to pursue it at this time. I have tried something similar, but notably without vampire. It didn't work for me. It's still a pressure build and I ended up feeling far too squishy. My DK got annihilated by a Vateshran 2H stamsorc burst build yesterday and so would this stamplar. I do find it notable, however, that Jabs (if you can land them all) is in the same ballpark as Executioner in execute range on this build, which is why I left that skill out. Note Channeled Focus and Engine Guardian are there to support Mist Form, Toppling Charge and Extended Ritual. You may need more resistances. Like I said, it's just a concept.

That's kinda the issue with stamplar rn, your offensive power is almost all in jabs, crescent is a nice ult, but that's about it.
I really hope Zos gives us some breadcrumbs this coming update.
I also wouldn't go vamp with 2 offensive sets, that's an easy way to be sent to the death recap screen before you can blink.

Overall Templar has been nerfed a few too many times recently, it really needs to have its defenses shorted up a bit.

Grimlok_S

Firstmep wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Finding success with Crescent Sweep Stamplar atm, but that really just lends to Joy's point that we're Magplar Lite without the healing or defensive capability.

I was pondering this myself the other day too.

I can pretty much run the same 2-3 sets on both stam and mag and have literally the same playstyle, bar a couple of skills.

Im actually running a weaker dot-ish build on stamplar just to avoid doing the same thing on both.

I'm really hoping for some positive changes, necros and wardens are so far ahead its a joke.
Both dlc classes have more healing, mitigation and burst.
On my magcro I can run 3 offensive sets and still feel like a tank, on magplar I have to run at least one, but really 2 defensive sets and even then if I turn on the offensive the wrong time I get deleted before I can finish a single channel of jabs.
We were promised that the original classes would be brought back up to the same lvl as the dlc ones, years ago, and nothing happened.
Looking at necro, they have multiple 5pc set bonuses just in their passives, meanwhile Templar gets 2 *** seconds on dawns wrath abilities?
Like who even thinks this is even remotely balanced?

Hey don't forget free soul gem refills and quicker rezzes, both now available as CP passives

Firstmep

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Finding success with Crescent Sweep Stamplar atm, but that really just lends to Joy's point that we're Magplar Lite without the healing or defensive capability.

I was pondering this myself the other day too.

I can pretty much run the same 2-3 sets on both stam and mag and have literally the same playstyle, bar a couple of skills.

Im actually running a weaker dot-ish build on stamplar just to avoid doing the same thing on both.

I'm really hoping for some positive changes, necros and wardens are so far ahead its a joke.
Both dlc classes have more healing, mitigation and burst.
On my magcro I can run 3 offensive sets and still feel like a tank, on magplar I have to run at least one, but really 2 defensive sets and even then if I turn on the offensive the wrong time I get deleted before I can finish a single channel of jabs.
We were promised that the original classes would be brought back up to the same lvl as the dlc ones, years ago, and nothing happened.
Looking at necro, they have multiple 5pc set bonuses just in their passives, meanwhile Templar gets 2 *** seconds on dawns wrath abilities?
Like who even thinks this is even remotely balanced?

Hey don't forget free soul gem refills and quicker rezzes, both now available as CP passives

LOL, I remember when I saw those cp passives..
I think the devs just forgot about Templar lol..

GoodFella146

That flow chart is surprisingly accurate (save for the typos). Well done!

Faded

Speaks wrote: »

Casting Dawn's Wrath abilities should give a few seconds of major or minor expedition. We are the Long Arm of the Law. We are Magnus flying across the sky.

That would be kind of awesome, I'd like to see it. But if it ever happened I'd complain A LOT, since magblade had expedition stripped from everything but a ground-based dot-or-hot because options are bad, or something.

They could buff templar's existing strengths instead, but they don't like to walk back their own heavy-handed nerfs. Ok then, templar passives are terrible*: buffing those would at least pull you out of the basement. Making the class fun to play is a different problem.


* Seriously. Terrible.

Abyssmol

notyuu wrote: »

Ever since the changes made to templar in the stonethorn update, stamplar in PvP has gone from tricky but useable to an outright pile of garbage with the adverage PvP encounter between two players of roughly the same skill and rank going as follows



and I simply have to ask, is having them this terrible in PvP an intentional choise or are we just simply forgotten about? if it's the former, then make and distribute class change tokens, problem solved, no more stamplars, if it's the latter...well, one can only hope blackwood will be kinder than the last six months.

Lol, I love that flowchart!!!

gamma71

Why do I see so many stamplars now since update? As a stam dk in a straight up fight those jabs hurt .obviuosly you can dodge roll out but it's constant itsnot like u can go straight up toe to as I've encountered.

jekyto

gamma71 wrote: »

Why do I see so many stamplars now since update? As a stam dk in a straight up fight those jabs hurt .obviuosly you can dodge roll out but it's constant itsnot like u can go straight up toe to as I've encountered.

Like you can go straight to dizzying swing and a shield spam that lets see - one skill to give you good max health bubble, buff your dmg, increase your healing received, reflect dmg and restore you stamina lol?! And they still whine about jabs...