Malacath's Ring poll - what do you think should happen for it to be balanced?

Togal

It is overtuned. Bonus damage percentage needs to go down by 20-25%.

Make malacath not work with proc dmg, the combination of sets with malacath is pure cancer.

Goregrinder

Your option.

"Attacks that can critically strike, no longer critically strike. Instead, they deal 25% more damage."

L_Nici

It is interesting item that needs more downsides. For example, you cannot crit and you have 0 critical resistance.

As second downside: This buff doesn't apply to Procs of any kind.

INe_Saninus

Your option.

Leave it as is in every way accept disable it for procs.

That's really the only problem with it.

...and really it's only broken on Stamden. Almost every complaint comes from people loading up on proc sets and health.
Only Stamden can pull that off because of the health based heals and subterranean hitting hard regardless of stats.
People aren't complaining about Mag DK's (who need Malacath and procs to be competitive) or Stam Dks or even Stamcros.

I'd rather it be left alone in the name of build diversity rather than it be gutted.

Nobody wants to fight a Stamden with Syvarria's and (whatever other cheese set they choose), but there are exceptions where Malacath and procs actually make a class competitive.

baselesschart

Your option.

INe_Saninus wrote: »

Leave it as is in every way accept disable it for procs.

That's really the only problem with it.

...and really it's only broken on Stamden. Almost every complaint comes from people loading up on proc sets and health.
Only Stamden can pull that off because of the health based heals and subterranean hitting hard regardless of stats.
People aren't complaining about Mag DK's (who need Malacath and procs to be competitive) or Stam Dks or even Stamcros.

I'd rather it be left alone in the name of build diversity rather than it be gutted.

Nobody wants to fight a Stamden with Syvarria's and (whatever other cheese set they choose), but there are exceptions where Malacath and procs actually make a class competitive.

You're right that its broken on stamden, however that same mala, syvarras, vateshran etc setup is broken on necro and dk. Stamden isn't the only one with health based heals, granted it abuses health based heals the most, its not the only class with health based heals. People complain about both the class and malacath, because the class passives offers too much as far as resistance and healing while malacath gives it too much damage, literally granting stamden almost no weakness.

And the addition of malacath made build diversity shoot way down, so many people were using the same crimson, syvarras, mala setup. That is not diversity. If you have the option to be something with little weakness, you are not going to have diversity.

INe_Saninus

Your option.

baselesschart wrote: »

INe_Saninus wrote: »

Leave it as is in every way accept disable it for procs.

That's really the only problem with it.

...and really it's only broken on Stamden. Almost every complaint comes from people loading up on proc sets and health.
Only Stamden can pull that off because of the health based heals and subterranean hitting hard regardless of stats.
People aren't complaining about Mag DK's (who need Malacath and procs to be competitive) or Stam Dks or even Stamcros.

I'd rather it be left alone in the name of build diversity rather than it be gutted.

Nobody wants to fight a Stamden with Syvarria's and (whatever other cheese set they choose), but there are exceptions where Malacath and procs actually make a class competitive.

You're right that its broken on stamden, however that same mala, syvarras, vateshran etc setup is broken on necro and dk. Stamden isn't the only one with health based heals, granted it abuses health based heals the most, its not the only class with health based heals. People complain about both the class and malacath, because the class passives offers too much as far as resistance and healing while malacath gives it too much damage, literally granting stamden almost no weakness.

And the addition of malacath made build diversity shoot way down, so many people were using the same crimson, syvarras, mala setup. That is not diversity. If you have the option to be something with little weakness, you are not going to have diversity.

100% agree that Vateshran 2H and destruction staff are both a little over tuned. I would argue the staff more so for the work required to get the damage, but... (shrugs)

Crimson was labeled as OP in the PTS.
Everyone new it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the rest.

Yes, other classes have access to health based heals, but nothing works as well as the warden skill.
Green Dragons Blood works off of missing health and while it does come with buffs, those are all supplied by tripots.
Artic Blast scales off of max health with a HOT component. Plus a cc, you know... just in case.
It feels intellectually dishonest to compare the two.
There's a reason that almost all Wardens slot Artic and GDB is rare find on the bar of a Stam DK.

I also disagree with your build diversity statement.

Mythics increased build diversity greatly, Malcath included.
Where as all stam were running virtually one setup before, now you see a divergence among the classes.
I don't see any Stamblades running Malacath. I see them arguing over Ring of the Wild Hunt vs Torq for best in slot, if they run a mythic at all.
Could be because they have passives that encourage crit.
I would put Stamplar and Stamsorc in this category too.
I prefer medium armor on both and like to have my crits.

Stamden + Malacath + Proc sets is definitely the biggest offender.
Stam DK aren't wiping out entire teams of 4 with the setups we're discussing.
I mean... I'm sure it happens. Just not nearly a common.

I stand by my statement.

There are toons that make good use of Malacath and Procs.
Unfortunately one of those happens to be top tier without those things.

I'd rather balance with a scalpel than a sledgehammer, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

baselesschart

Your option.

INe_Saninus wrote: »

100% agree that Vateshran 2H and destruction staff are both a little over tuned. I would argue the staff more so for the work required to get the damage, but... (shrugs)

Crimson was labeled as OP in the PTS.
Everyone new it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the rest.

Yes, other classes have access to health based heals, but nothing works as well as the warden skill.
Green Dragons Blood works off of missing health and while it does come with buffs, those are all supplied by tripots.
Artic Blast scales off of max health with a HOT component. Plus a cc, you know... just in case.
It feels intellectually dishonest to compare the two.
There's a reason that almost all Wardens slot Artic and GDB is rare find on the bar of a Stam DK.

I also disagree with your build diversity statement.

Mythics increased build diversity greatly, Malcath included.
Where as all stam were running virtually one setup before, now you see a divergence among the classes.
I don't see any Stamblades running Malacath. I see them arguing over Ring of the Wild Hunt vs Torq for best in slot, if they run a mythic at all.
Could be because they have passives that encourage crit.
I would put Stamplar and Stamsorc in this category too.
I prefer medium armor on both and like to have my crits.

Stamden + Malacath + Proc sets is definitely the biggest offender.
Stam DK aren't wiping out entire teams of 4 with the setups we're discussing.
I mean... I'm sure it happens. Just not nearly a common.

I stand by my statement.

There are toons that make good use of Malacath and Procs.
Unfortunately one of those happens to be top tier without those things.

I'd rather balance with a scalpel than a sledgehammer, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I do agree that warden does have the best working health based heal, on top of the fact that they get major mending so easily, they have too much healing way too easily. Arctic blast needs to be reworked and not be given a stun, thats ridiculous to have a stun on a heal ability. Mythics as a whole I do agree, encourage build diversity, and I would like to see more added to the game, but not at the balance level they have, malacath shines over the rest so much. Malacath offers warden and most stam classes gains with little drawback, crit chance on warden and dk is so garbage it makes sense to give up the ability to crit for more damage overall.

Nightblade relies on crit entirely to kill people so malacath is garbage on nightblade. And none of the other mythics really synergize that well with nightblade to use them, you could maybe use torc if you want to risk keeping your resources low all the time.

DK and necro without procs are not on the same level of warden but they both do hold their own quite well with heals and tankiness. I'd still go even as far to say necro is overtuned.

INe_Saninus

Your option.

@baselesschart

It sounds like we're on a similar page, if not in agreement on how to fix the issue.

I would rather reel the outliers in vs drop Mag or Stam DK down another tier.
Building for crit is a waste, but you need dmg. Malacath allows you to build tankier (a class strength) but still allows you to have enough dmg to secure a kill.
I think it's balanced well there.
Not OP. Just gives the class what it needs to compete.
Full disclosure: I wear procs on my Mag DK. I do not on my Stam DK.
It gives Stam DK just that little extra dmg it needs to compete imo.

Having experience on Stamcro... (shrugs)
I don't know, man.
If built for cheese, yeah, it's probably still a little over tuned.
The class can just take so much damage you can really build it however you want.
The only hesitation I have now since major defile was nerfed is that it's offense feels so damn clunky to me.
Again though... I wouldn't argue on whether it's a little strong or not.

DrSlaughtr

My issue with malacath isn't the damage increase, even though it's substantial. It's that ZOS continues to not address the tank meta, where someone doesn't have to sacrifice damage for high survivability.

If a glass cannon wants to wear malacath as is, go for it. But someone with 32k+ health, 32k+ resistances and decked out in heavy armor shouldn't hit hard than a light armor mag toon with 45k magicka or a stamblade with 8k damage and 15k pen.

The heavy armor tree should ditch the mag weakness and institute a significant damage nerf per piece.

StarOfElyon

Your option.

I've been reluctant to say this for a while - maybe Malacath should only offer a flat 300 weapon and spell damage bonus.

It will become a great item for those who simply want a 1 piece set to go with a missing 5-piece or a missing monster set.

Edit: I'm one of those people because I prefer stats to procs.

Tranquilizer

Your option.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Code proc sets out. Make it so it doesn't work with heavy armor builds -or- add a negative multiplier directly to heavy armor.

Heavy doesn't need to hit as hard as light and medium.

Sums it up pretty well.

But it would also be ok when proc sets aren't affected by Malacath.

LightYagami

Your option.

That gear deserves restrictions.
For example the buff should not apply on all damages, but, say, only on CLASS abilities.
At least zos should it not applicable on monster sets or all proc sets.

MurderMostFoul

It is overtuned. Bonus damage percentage needs to go down by 20-25%.

What about adding:

Reduce healing received by 25%

Sergykid

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/567481/the-pros-and-cons-of-malacaths-band-of-brutality/p2

Sergykid

Berenhir wrote: »

Malacath should stay as it is but also affect healing received so that you cannot be critically healed (by anyone including yourself).

this and this

For example, you cannot crit and you have 0 critical resistance

sound very good actually. If it takes out crits, then take out all the crits. No crit heals received, no crit hits resisted.

katorga

Your option.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I've been reluctant to say this for a while - maybe Malacath should only offer a flat 300 weapon and spell damage bonus.

It will become a great item for those who simply want a 1 piece set to go with a missing 5-piece or a missing monster set.

Edit: I'm one of those people because I prefer stats to procs.

I like that idea a lot, but it should be 500-600 if it still suppresses critical hits.

The only problem is ZOS is changing procs to scale with stats, so, boom, back to proc/malacath.