The elder stamina online as a magicka player

Mrtoobyy

So I've been playing alot of Battlegrounds with my magplar the past 4-5 months and most of the times it is really fun trying out new sets/abilites etc.
But one thing I have noticed is that stamina seems really overpowered in pvp? I see alot of stamina wardens just maul people and they seem to have great sustain since they roll like a gymnast on crack.
I know light and medium armor have the cost decrease but it seems that EVERY stamina ability is alot cheaper?
I also know that templar is not the best class since the nerfhammer seem to be our best friend.(been playing it since beta)
But I mean come on.... We get minor sorcery - woho!
Wardens get Minor berserk,minor vulnerability, Major sorcery AND brutality in their class kit.
I am starting to agree to the whole "New classes is better since they are locked behind purchase and thus more money for the company"

So do any magicka player have some great tips how to battle for example a stamwarden with sub assault, dizzy swing, HA landing at the same time?
Really appreciate it if you can guide me in some way.
Thanks!

Renegader

[snip] mags are insanly strong in bgs, especially magwarden and magcro which is as good as, if not outright beat their stamina counterpart. those two in procs hits like a truck with the survivability to back it up. whats the real issue here is you are likely using an outdated/wrong build and then thinking the game is unbalanced because its lacking in all the 3 core things: sustain, survivability and damage. a magplar in procs, is not bad at all.

Watch some streamers, i recommend decimus, he sometimes plays on a mistform magplar that looks strong as hell.

[snip]

this spreading of misinformation that this game is stamina-based only, and that magicka has no chance is absolutely false.

[Edited tor remove Rude Comments]

Kel

Renegader wrote: »

[snip] mags are insanly strong in bgs, especially magwarden and magcro which is as good as, if not outright beat their stamina counterpart. those two in procs hits like a truck with the survivability to back it up. whats the real issue here is you are likely using an outdated/wrong build and then thinking the game is unbalanced because its lacking in all the 3 core things: sustain, survivability and damage. a magplar in procs, is not bad at all.

Watch some streamers, i recommend decimus, he sometimes plays on a mistform magplar that looks strong as hell.

[snip]

this spreading of misinformation that this game is stamina-based only, and that magicka has no chance is absolutely false.

I agree with this.

Seems you're asking the wrong question here, op, since you specifically keep mentioning wardens.
We're all having trouble with wardens right now, stam and mag alike, as they hit hard af, have amazing sustain, and can be very defensive as a matter of course... especially in no cp.

Don't put all stamina classes under the blanket just because one is over performing right now...

Rhaegar75

Kel wrote: »

Renegader wrote: »

[snip] mags are insanly strong in bgs, especially magwarden and magcro which is as good as, if not outright beat their stamina counterpart. those two in procs hits like a truck with the survivability to back it up. whats the real issue here is you are likely using an outdated/wrong build and then thinking the game is unbalanced because its lacking in all the 3 core things: sustain, survivability and damage. a magplar in procs, is not bad at all.

Watch some streamers, i recommend decimus, he sometimes plays on a mistform magplar that looks strong as hell.

[snip]

this spreading of misinformation that this game is stamina-based only, and that magicka has no chance is absolutely false.

I agree with this.

Seems you're asking the wrong question here, op, since you specifically keep mentioning wardens.
We're all having trouble with wardens right now, stam and mag alike, as they hit hard af, have amazing sustain, and can be very defensive as a matter of course... especially in no cp.

Don't put all stamina classes under the blanket just because one is over performing right now...

I agree: Wardens are the issue due to being able to excel in all PvP/BG areas without having to make sacrifices....add some proc sets and you will have the typical un-killable warden.
Go to Cyro and you will have MagSorc dominating the scene. Wardens and MagSorcs are clearly very easy overturned classes to play.

Take other stam classes such as Plars and DK and then you will re-think the idea of stam being much stronger.

Mrtoobyy

You might have a point there. Since I mostly die just to stamdens I don't want to give all stam classes a bad name.
But I still think that stamina has a slight edge on being the "favoured resource".

Do you think that magicka will get some love in general anytime soon? I know that templar won't get any love haha. For the moment I would just be happy if I got like a 5% decrease in Templar skill cost. They are so expensive...

Greek_Hellspawn

Sure stam is generally better than mag bg speaking but i would not call it overpowered, my personal opinion is like stamina is 55% while mag is 45% in difference, for classes like warden necro templar nightblade, for dk and sorc i think the difference is even smaller, i would even argue that mag dk and sorc is better than their stam versions.

Rhaegar75

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

You might have a point there. Since I mostly die just to stamdens I don't want to give all stam classes a bad name.
But I still think that stamina has a slight edge on being the "favoured resource".

On this I fully agree with you.
Warden are too strong so, in my opinion, should not be the comparison term, but stamina has the edge over mag at the moment

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

Do you think that magicka will get some love in general anytime soon? I know that templar won't get any love haha. For the moment I would just be happy if I got like a 5% decrease in Templar skill cost. They are so expensive...

I think Magicka needs some love and hopefully the fact that mag lags behind stamina will be noticed.

however, I would already be happy if they just managed to add some balance so that we wouldn't have some classes dominating the scene - magsorcs and wardens in my opinion

Mrtoobyy

Renegader wrote: »

[snip] mags are insanly strong in bgs, especially magwarden and magcro which is as good as, if not outright beat their stamina counterpart. those two in procs hits like a truck with the survivability to back it up. whats the real issue here is you are likely using an outdated/wrong build and then thinking the game is unbalanced because its lacking in all the 3 core things: sustain, survivability and damage. a magplar in procs, is not bad at all.

Watch some streamers, i recommend decimus, he sometimes plays on a mistform magplar that looks strong as hell.

[snip]

this spreading of misinformation that this game is stamina-based only, and that magicka has no chance is absolutely false.

[Edited tor remove Rude Comments]

I don't know if u meant that I spread false information "that this game is stamina-based only, and that magicka has no chance" I never said anything that it is that extreme dude . I said it SEEMS op.
The title of this thread is kind of a joke, maybe I should write for the people who don't get it.

To the point of saying the game is unbalanced, may I ask you if you 100% think it's balanced between stam/mag, weapons and all different classes?

And thanks for the tip on Decimus will check him out![/quote]

Xargas13

Well, some stamina players overperform from what I see, like extreme tankiness and high damage, but there are not so many of them, the only mag class that comes close to what stamina players do is sorc, with shield stacking and heavy armor, they are very hard to kill sometimes. As a mag class I would recommend to learn how to use block instead of roll & dodge, that's what I do, and doing not that bad.

Mrtoobyy

Xargas13 wrote: »

Well, some stamina players overperform from what I see, like extreme tankiness and high damage, but there are not so many of them, the only mag class that comes close to what stamina players do is sorc, with shield stacking and heavy armor, they are very hard to kill sometimes. As a mag class I would recommend to learn how to use block instead of roll & dodge, that's what I do, and doing not that bad.

Ok do you invest in alot of block cost ? I do block cast some stuff but the stamina drains kinda fast.

jekyto

As a stamplar, can only say pvp is ridiculously unbalanced even between stamina's. I can claim for myself that im a competent in my role and sometimes manage to keep alot of pressure on most classes. But, there are numerous cancers able to run, dissapear, heal back to full health endlessly, clear status effects for no cost, shielding, sustaining all this, and inbetween hit me for 11k+ while having 33k resi. So against competent players i endup trying to defend myself till i runout of resources.
Imo the game is too much oriented for pve and balancing for pvp just wont happen. At the end of the day most of the people like to play "OP" characters. About your magplar.. If you know what youre doing, fighting one of you can be a headache aswell, no matter class

FirmamentOfStars

To a certain degree I agree with OP. For a long time stamina builds generally were stronger than their magicka counterparts (exception is magsorc though). Stamden for a long time was better that magden, stamcco better than magcro, etc etc.

This was the case because stamina had some better tools all around like mobility or healing together major brutality, a very strong hot, all in class utility plus the stamina weapon skills. But last autumn changed that mostly when ZOS introduced the vate destro. This weapon almost brought up magicka to their stamina counterpart and made them equally strong. Generally many proc sets had lead to the situation of classes being almost balanced. The recent patch also brought the tanky classes like wardens with their health based heals a bit down, since those heals do not scale with the newly gained 1k spell/weapon damage.

The current Cyrodiil though was kinda set back to a different meta and there it shows clearly again, how stamina is just superior to magicka in most cases (except magsorc). Top classes again are stamden and stamcro with a mix of magsorc, stamblade, magcro and magden. Already here we see an imbalance towards stam, since stamden and stamcro perform better than their counterparts. On the lower end of the tier we have again magplar, magdk and magblade, meanwhile stamplar and stamdk are slighty above that.

So I wouldnt call that false information at all, when we say stamina in PvP is generally stronger than magicka. It has been for a long time like this and in Cyro it is again the case. Procs minimalized differences, but without them the differences are clear again. For bgs its slightly different though. My view of point is mostly based on being solo (so it alos applies to solo quueue to a degree). but bgs are based around teamwork, where magicka excels with support. Thats why people in here say magicka isnt worse than stamina in bgs.

fred4

I'm trying to think what magplar hit me really hard in IC recently. I think it involved Overwhelming Surge and a Vateshran destro. Stuhn may work (with Toppling Charge) and so may Zaan. I was also attacked by a magden with both a Vateshran and Blackrose destro. That guy didn't even use Deep Fissure. I was on my stam DK in those cases. Whether those builds would be strong enough to successfully 1v1 a good 40K stam / healthden, I don't know.

I don't think magplar is in good shape in Cyrodiil. Damage and defense are both weak. As you can now mix light and heavy (and medium) armor freely, people seem to go with 3 + 4 setups. However, for sheer playability I really like Shacklebreaker (or Eternal Vigor outside Cyro) plus Amber Plasm in 6 light 1 heavy or medium. You can make up for what you lack in tankiness with mobility and dodge roll sustain. That setup won't win you any prizes for damage, though. When I say magplar is in bad shape, I'm referring to solo and duo, which is what I play. In groups it's perhaps a bit better, especially since J-beaming from a distance is still (again?) pretty viable. You'll need Race Against Time or Mist Form as a matter of course.

divnyi

I think newly introduced downside of light armor to be vulnerable to stam is a mistake. I don't mind mag downside on heavy, because it's not like heavy classes die to magicka burst, but mages DO die to stam burst.

Change it to something else. Maybe more damage in execute range?

Mrtoobyy

I take it as I am not alone in this matter. I haven't tried vamp for mist form on my templar cause it's the opposite of what he "is" haha.
It's a great ability though and maybe I should just try becoming a vamp just for that ability.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I’m a mag player but I haven’t done a battleground in like 3 years. Maybe you’re right there, I don’t know.

What I do know a lot about is Cyrodiil and the only reason magic underperforms there is because someone decided that the “right” meta in this game years ago was to strap on a ton of defense, play like a coward and somehow consider it a victory to die 5% slower.

If you build for DPS completely, while ignoring all rational advice you can pump out 25K ice comets or near 100k soul assaults. The tools are there. People are simply afraid to use them because they might die a bit more often.

Any magic player can stack 3-4 shields without being a sorc and dampen magicka can be more than 10k in Cyrodiil. You just need to pump up the raw stats to get them there.

And for the love of god, please stop using that garbage impen gear. People using this are why “unkillable tanks” exist to run around rocks while ten people tickle them, but somehow die from one radiant oppression when I press the button.

Xargas13

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Well, some stamina players overperform from what I see, like extreme tankiness and high damage, but there are not so many of them, the only mag class that comes close to what stamina players do is sorc, with shield stacking and heavy armor, they are very hard to kill sometimes. As a mag class I would recommend to learn how to use block instead of roll & dodge, that's what I do, and doing not that bad.

Ok do you invest in alot of block cost ? I do block cast some stuff but the stamina drains kinda fast.

Instead of impen trait I use three pieces for reduced block cost, plus heavy armor, also using food that increases mag, health and stamina.

DonGodJoe

Boi its pay to win stamina time warden, necro



Please don't ban me, im just joking..

But for real .. i have pleb build vigor + endurance + malacath on my stamden, no additional proc set and im just rocking with one hand, literally just chilling in bgs ..

Firstmep

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

I’m a mag player but I haven’t done a battleground in like 3 years. Maybe you’re right there, I don’t know.

What I do know a lot about is Cyrodiil and the only reason magic underperforms there is because someone decided that the “right” meta in this game years ago was to strap on a ton of defense, play like a coward and somehow consider it a victory to die 5% slower.

If you build for DPS completely, while ignoring all rational advice you can pump out 25K ice comets or near 100k soul assaults. The tools are there. People are simply afraid to use them because they might die a bit more often.

Any magic player can stack 3-4 shields without being a sorc and dampen magicka can be more than 10k in Cyrodiil. You just need to pump up the raw stats to get them there.

And for the love of god, please stop using that garbage impen gear. People using this are why “unkillable tanks” exist to run around rocks while ten people tickle them, but somehow die from one radiant oppression when I press the button.

The reason so many people build for high defense and run around rocks is beacuse they dont want to die to a full damage build like yours xv1ing them down.
Some people are okay zerging solo players 20 to 1 and pretending they somehow outplayed them, some people dont.
Most solo or small scaler builds usually try to build for equal damage and defense, or enough dmg to kill squishy targets while also having good survivability, beacuse they dont have the luxury of 10 other friendly players around them soaking up hits or healing them.

And lets not pretend this game doesnt have serious performance issues and more bugs than sand grains in the Sahara Desert.

Its all cool and well to build for max damage, then suddenly a lagspike hits, or rando full damage nightblade stuns you with suprise attack from the FRONT through BLOCK, and suddenly your on the floor and their laughing.

INe_Saninus

I consider myself a stam player.
I main a stam toon. I have more stam toons...
But I play my Mag DK and my Magplar regularly in BGs. I don't ever feel at a disadvantage.
I'm also leveling a Magsorc which I play at least once a night in BGs.

I feel like this is a "grass is always greener" type of situation.
...and possibly an element of "these forums are overloaded with salty mag mains who frequent the forums more than they do pvp" .

I'm kidding. (Stares blankly)

Stamden is a monster in a good players hands and an instrument of absolute annihilation in the hands of a great player.
Most are kind of mediocre though.

Playing one will help show you the weakness of the class.
Admittedly, Stamden has very few weakness... but learning how to avoid Subterranean at least some of the time will help.
You can't face tank a Stamden even on another stam toon unless you're goal is to see the respawn screen.
Stay close. You're a Magplar. Do you have a cc on your bar? Always move in a circle around them. Move through them. Cc them every cooldown.

Play to your class strengths and force them out of theirs.
Imo, Magplars strength come from their passive healing.
That allows you to stay offensive.
With the heals you are getting from Puncturing, Purifying Light, and Extended Ritual (which should always be down on the ground) you're getting a ton of healing while doing damage.
Magplar weakness is when they have to go to the back bar to heal.
It's hard to get off your back bar.

Make them play your game. There is no question that Stamden is ranked in a much higher tier than Magplar, but that doesn't mean you can't be more skilled than your opponent.

Mayrael

Overall stamina is better in PvP because of 2h weapon. It provides the best access to major brutality and burst heal, the best and fastest execute skill in the game, strong spammable, great gap closer and also very good passive skils and the most weapon damage of all weapons.

And no, don't get me wrong, I don't want a 2h nerf. The only thing I would want is a similar skill line for magcik, that's all.

MarioMario

By a stamina user pov, wearing 5 heavy 2 medium, Magplar represent a real threath to me. Stuhn's based Magplar nowadays have really high burst capabilities. Expecially on heavy armor.

Templars can proc Stuhn's with a gap closer ability that STUNS and put target OFF BALACE. That's crazy damage increase.

Build around Stuhn's & Topping charge and you'll dominate BGs.

NOTE: templars have great purge capabilities, both stamina and magica, so they'r the best in mitigate current stamina proc-dot meta.

Rhaegar75

in fairness I just hope they will tune down Wardens and Necros (hard to believe it due to the good old monetary value of the 2 classes...just saying ) which are way too strong.

Other stamina classes are more or less at the same level of my plars - i'm thinking about eternal vigor + Stuhn + Malacath with nom moster set. Any thoughts?

FirmamentOfStars

Mayrael wrote: »

Overall stamina is better in PvP because of 2h weapon. It provides the best access to major brutality and burst heal, the best and fastest execute skill in the game, strong spammable, great gap closer and also very good passive skils and the most weapon damage of all weapons.

And no, don't get me wrong, I don't want a 2h nerf. The only thing I would want is a similar skill line for magcik, that's all.

Dont wish for that....ZOS will add an execute mechanism to fire rune and a teleport to mage light....

Rhaegar75

AuroranKnight wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Overall stamina is better in PvP because of 2h weapon. It provides the best access to major brutality and burst heal, the best and fastest execute skill in the game, strong spammable, great gap closer and also very good passive skils and the most weapon damage of all weapons.

And no, don't get me wrong, I don't want a 2h nerf. The only thing I would want is a similar skill line for magcik, that's all.

Dont wish for that....ZOS will add an execute mechanism to fire rune and a teleport to mage light....

I demand a Merciless Charge option so with one skill I can set off at least 3 procs!!! The '1 finger - 1 click' meta!!