Do you use detect potions in PvP?

Gulnagel

I'm fairky new to pvp, but I've joined some pvp guilds with great players and I practise pvp alot.
One thing I've noticed is that many players even veteran pvp players get ganked by Nightblades alot.

And I was to until I started to carry detect potions, I mean the satisfaction you get when you bait a Nightblade into the open and you fight him a bit, just to not L
let him know you got detect potions. You Let him cloak a few times heal up, met him gain confidence that he does not need to be at full health because cloak works everytime. And then out of the blue when you get him to 70% health for the 3d time BAM activate that detect and you'll see a new meaning to squishy.

Why does not more players use this? It shuts down Nb so hard.

Edit: Thread name

catnamedwill

Yes I use it

Detect pots only win you fights against mediocre Nightblades. The good NBs don't use Cloak as a primary survival tool and instead use it as a tactical setup tool. By using a detect pot, you are letting them know that you are about to try to burst them down. This just gives them opportunity to setup the perfect counter burst. If a good NB really wanted to hunt you, he will either burst you down before you can pop any pots or bait out your ultimate and shade away.
Detect pots are useful againt those pesky NBs whi cant fight and clutch on Cloak as if their lives depend on it.

divnyi

No I don't use it

I don't. I see those tools redundant, as the knowledge of having NB around lets you bait him and dodge/block his burst.

Tommy_The_Gun

No I don't use it

You don't need potions to counter invisibility / cloak. This effect right now is so bugged that it is insanely easy to break. A lot of things that are not supposed to - go through cloak and cancel / interrupt it. Even single target abilities.

I will be honest. If some one needs those potions it is either "LTP" or they just like salt.

Gilvoth

wheres the potion to remove sorcerers shields, and templars mass heals, and dragonights tank stacked health?

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

Yes I use it

Love seeing a nightblade stealth spam while I have a detect pot up.

Fawn4287

Yes I use it

Gilvoth wrote: »

wheres the potion to remove sorcerers shields, and templars mass heals, and dragonights tank stacked health?

There the oblivion damage glyph and bleed damage like masters bleed but they’ve made them near useless

olsborg

Yes I use it

I use it all the time, and im a nb. But I use it vs other nbs alot because 80% of the people who play nbs are super cowards and basicly only chose the nb class because of cloak (invis morph). They just wanna hit and run or only atk people that are already in deep trouble. They cloak away from any kind of fair fight or dangerous situation.

I just want them to be dead.

Vevvev

No I don't use it

I chug exclusively tri-pots and use Magelight and Engulfing Flames for my Nightblade detection.

Theignson

No I don't use it

Tripots so useful , don't want to waste a potion on NB.

Gulnagel

Yes I use it

Almost 50-50. That is not what it feels like in Cyro, since I rarely see anyone pop a detect potion or use magelight, flare ect. 🙂

MurderMostFoul

No I don't use it

On console/too lazy

JayKwellen

Yes I use it

Always. Being mag again makes it better because I can make mag/sorcery pots, which are what I already use.

As others have said though, they're not useful against NB's that actually know what they're doing. Good NBs don't use cloak as just a defensive tool and don't need to be in cloak to survive. The majority of good NBs also know what shade is and how to use it. Even if they're not great with it they at least still use it. A detect pot won't help you against people like that.

But it will help against things like snipers. In fact I don't think I've ever come across a sniper who actually uses shade or uses cloak as anything other than a tool to run away. These are typically the people who, upon being detected by a potion, can be seen wildly flailing that right arm desperately trying to spam cloak to disappear. Dedicating a potion to just for them may be overkill, but they deserve to die so it's an investment well spent.

Hexquisite

Yes I use it

50/50 --I often don't want to waste a pot lol.

But I will say that most of the time when I get ganked it is because I am sitting on my horse typing. So pots don't work with that lol. Or perhaps I am AFK at a keep, lol.

Sometimes while in group, when doing a push against a large group someone will try to gank me, and sometimes they succeed--but I usually have skills on that reveal them, and can block.

fred4

Yes I use it

It depends on what class I'm playing.

As a magblade, Immovability / Detection / Magicka or Spell Power / Detection / Magicka are my default potions and I use them all the time. Makes ganking other nightblades more reliable. Using these just before a gank also tops up your ultimate. Can alert you of other nightblades laying in ambush. Most importantly they fit magicka characters and nightblades themselves in particular.

On other classes I typically carry those potions, but use them far less. They don't suit stamina builds and I often prefer having a health + stamina potion ready for when needed. They're only a necessity, if you want to actively go after nightblades, e.g. you really hate them, but that can be a mistake if you're not careful and you exhaust your resources from sprinting or you let your buffs run out. My approach on DK, for example, is to be patient. I might spam bad nightblades to death with Noxious Breath, but more generally, if I lose sight of a nightblade, I immediately go into a buff cycle, followed by blocking and awaiting the nightblade's return. Fossilize can be deadly. Some stam DKs even use it and it helps with landing your DOTs. Mainly you're waiting for an opportunity to leap and execute.

In short, players who use detection can shut down nightblades hard, but many are not that bothered. Being phlegmatic and ignoring nightblades when you can't see them also works. Tankiness and holding block can shutdown nightblades, but so can incessant movement and ingrained dodge roll reflexes, e.g. when you hear that Incap sound. For active nightblade hunting, potions are at the forefront, but there is also Bombard spam, incessant Streaking, the Sentry set, Magelight and so on. Some of these methods, notably the Bombard spam, are commonly seen in Cyrodiil.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

No I don't use it

I use inner light, not detect potions. My potions are for invisibility + speed, or immovable + health/magic.

But yes ... you absolutely should have a way to find those nasty Nightblades!

Beardimus

Yes I use it

Yeah mainly as you can pop them on a horse. So when you know a group is in stealth waiting to attack you raz about till they revealed and watch them scatter in a wild panic

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes I use it

I usually slot 4-5 potions in PVP. Detect Pot, Invis Pot, Imov Pot, Tris-Stat Pot, weapon/spell damage Pot.

And yes, I absolutely love turning the tables on a NB ganker. I had one burst me to under 1k health the other day, still managed to turn the tables and kill him. Detect pots for the win.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes I use it

Gilvoth wrote: »

wheres the potion to remove sorcerers shields, and templars mass heals, and dragonights tank stacked health?

Not even close to the same thing. All of those can be countered with damage. You can't damage what you cant see/target. If cloak had no meaningful counters, it would be completely broken. Even with the counters available, it is still one of the best open world fight reset tools in the game.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

No I don't use it

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

wheres the potion to remove sorcerers shields, and templars mass heals, and dragonights tank stacked health?

Not even close to the same thing. All of those can be countered with damage. You can't damage what you cant see/target. If cloak had no meaningful counters, it would be completely broken. Even with the counters available, it is still one of the best open world fight reset tools in the game.

Added benefit to using some sort of anti-cloak ability is getting to see NBs trying to hide directly next to you and the obvious panic when you ulti-dump everything onto them when they thought they were safe.

Goregrinder

Yes I use it

Yep, against other NB's. I'm never one to turn down anything that can give me a competitive for the sake of "gentleman's rules", i think it would be really dumb of me to do that lol. Right now stealth is borked but I use them.

Mayrael

Yes I use it

Because I hate NBs and myself, that's why I play one of them.

deleted210809-001958

Yes I use it

i always have at least 3 types of potions: 3stat, hp+stamina+cc immune, detection+cc immune (and probably stamina, don't remember)

TwinLamps

Yes I use it

Gilvoth wrote: »

wheres the potion to remove sorcerers shields, and templars mass heals, and dragonights tank stacked health?

Id pay tons for potions that remove these:

-pets that sit on writ boxes/quest givers/wayshrines
-XP gains so I can keep some chars sub lvl 50 while playing game with them


And yes, ofc I use detect pots.

Tommy_The_Gun

No I don't use it

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Love seeing a nightblade stealth spam while I have a detect pot up.

Tbh. Detect potions are kinda broken if you think about it. I mean, what counter-play does it have ?
- Players have no idea who has them active. No icon or indication.
- Players have no idea what the range is. No AOE, no "detection circle" (just like some PvE Mobs have).
- It can not be purged, as it is re-applied again.

The only counter-play that I can think of is to cast some CC immunity and try to run away from an imaginary line, starting from an enemy you "guess" is using detect pots. And if that enemy is faster than you, it is impossible. Other alternative is that detection does not have 100% uptime, so I guess you could wait & then try to cloak, but... I don't think it can be called a "counter".

In other words, either there is no counter or, if it is - it is a guessing game or luck. Basically, detect pots are a hard-counter that itself has no counter. While invisibility / cloak has plenty of counters, like AOEs, or delayed burst, detect potions have nothing you can do against them. I would like to say that maybe, just maybe - this needs to be looked at ? ? ?

It simply looks like, detect potions come from old times (and were not updated), in which invisibility / cloak was actually something very strong. So it needed a strong counter. But, over the years cloak was ninja nerfed (or it just bugged in too many ways) - so it is unreliable. Same thing was happening to dmg shields. Those were too OP, to the point that ZOS started introducing entire sets (like Shield Breaker, that used to deal oblivion dmg if you had dmg shield). But, with the nerf to the shields, ZOS also re-designed Shield Breaker set, so it would not be this over-the-top counter to something that does not really need a strong counter anymore. But detect pots ? It looks like something ZOS forgot to balance lol.

WabanakiWarrior

Hell yes. You've pin pointed one of the most op and little used things in the game.

fred4

Yes I use it

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Love seeing a nightblade stealth spam while I have a detect pot up.

Tbh. Detect potions are kinda broken if you think about it. I mean, what counter-play does it have ?
- Players have no idea who has them active. No icon or indication.
- Players have no idea what the range is. No AOE, no "detection circle" (just like some PvE Mobs have).
- It can not be purged, as it is re-applied again.

The only counter-play that I can think of is to cast some CC immunity and try to run away from an imaginary line, starting from an enemy you "guess" is using detect pots. And if that enemy is faster than you, it is impossible. Other alternative is that detection does not have 100% uptime, so I guess you could wait & then try to cloak, but... I don't think it can be called a "counter".

In other words, either there is no counter or, if it is - it is a guessing game or luck. Basically, detect pots are a hard-counter that itself has no counter. While invisibility / cloak has plenty of counters, like AOEs, or delayed burst, detect potions have nothing you can do against them. I would like to say that maybe, just maybe - this needs to be looked at ? ? ?

It simply looks like, detect potions come from old times (and were not updated), in which invisibility / cloak was actually something very strong. So it needed a strong counter. But, over the years cloak was ninja nerfed (or it just bugged in too many ways) - so it is unreliable. Same thing was happening to dmg shields. Those were too OP, to the point that ZOS started introducing entire sets (like Shield Breaker, that used to deal oblivion dmg if you had dmg shield). But, with the nerf to the shields, ZOS also re-designed Shield Breaker set, so it would not be this over-the-top counter to something that does not really need a strong counter anymore. But detect pots ? It looks like something ZOS forgot to balance lol.

I don't really agree and I am a magblade main. Detect potions were updated. They lasted longer in the past (20s) ... at least I think so - they were nerfed to 15s at the same time Immovability was nerfed to 10.4s.

I do agree that counter play is difficult until you have become very experienced. I can now pretty much tell when someone is using one within 1 or 2 seconds simply from the way they play or because they keep hitting me. This means I switch to LoS (line of sight), shielding, Fear, or would use Shadow Image, if I was using that. You tend to have a problem when nightblade, especially magblade, is the only class you play. When you also play other classes you simply switch gears. The difficulty is in copping on to the potion and how abruptly you must change your playstyle from cloaking to shielding, dodge rolling and LoSing, basically the tools that every other class uses. You don't need to sustain that as well as builds without cloak do, just long enough.

Speed helps you either way. I am a firm believer in building for maximum speed on magblade, at least absent the shade. It's a bit more difficult in current Cyrodiil, but with the Wild Hunt ring plus other speed buffs you cover so much distance, you can quickly outrange a detection potion. That said, there are some players able to target nightblades aggressively and be really effective. I fear a streaking sorc with a detection potion the most. This seems to take quite a bit of skill though, because not that many people are able to do it (1v1) in my experience. The other thing is that detection potions are inconvenient for a lot of builds. They preclude your regular potion that may give you something you also need, such as stamina to recover from the blocking and dodge rolling you did when you got ganked.

Goregrinder

Yes I use it

fred4 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Love seeing a nightblade stealth spam while I have a detect pot up.

Tbh. Detect potions are kinda broken if you think about it. I mean, what counter-play does it have ?
- Players have no idea who has them active. No icon or indication.
- Players have no idea what the range is. No AOE, no "detection circle" (just like some PvE Mobs have).
- It can not be purged, as it is re-applied again.

The only counter-play that I can think of is to cast some CC immunity and try to run away from an imaginary line, starting from an enemy you "guess" is using detect pots. And if that enemy is faster than you, it is impossible. Other alternative is that detection does not have 100% uptime, so I guess you could wait & then try to cloak, but... I don't think it can be called a "counter".

In other words, either there is no counter or, if it is - it is a guessing game or luck. Basically, detect pots are a hard-counter that itself has no counter. While invisibility / cloak has plenty of counters, like AOEs, or delayed burst, detect potions have nothing you can do against them. I would like to say that maybe, just maybe - this needs to be looked at ? ? ?

It simply looks like, detect potions come from old times (and were not updated), in which invisibility / cloak was actually something very strong. So it needed a strong counter. But, over the years cloak was ninja nerfed (or it just bugged in too many ways) - so it is unreliable. Same thing was happening to dmg shields. Those were too OP, to the point that ZOS started introducing entire sets (like Shield Breaker, that used to deal oblivion dmg if you had dmg shield). But, with the nerf to the shields, ZOS also re-designed Shield Breaker set, so it would not be this over-the-top counter to something that does not really need a strong counter anymore. But detect pots ? It looks like something ZOS forgot to balance lol.

I don't really agree and I am a magblade main. Detect potions were updated. They lasted longer in the past (20s) ... at least I think so - they were nerfed to 15s at the same time Immovability was nerfed to 10.4s.

I do agree that counter play is difficult until you have become very experienced. I can now pretty much tell when someone is using one within 1 or 2 seconds simply from the way they play or because they keep hitting me. This means I switch to LoS (line of sight), shielding, Fear, or would use Shadow Image, if I was using that. You tend to have a problem when nightblade, especially magblade, is the only class you play. When you also play other classes you simply switch gears. The difficulty is in copping on to the potion and how abruptly you must change your playstyle from cloaking to shielding, dodge rolling and LoSing, basically the tools that every other class uses. You don't need to sustain that as well as builds without cloak do, just long enough.

Speed helps you either way. I am a firm believer in building for maximum speed on magblade, at least absent the shade. It's a bit more difficult in current Cyrodiil, but with the Wild Hunt ring plus other speed buffs you cover so much distance, you can quickly outrange a detection potion. That said, there are some players able to target nightblades aggressively and be really effective. I fear a streaking sorc with a detection potion the most. This seems to take quite a bit of skill though, because not that many people are able to do it (1v1) in my experience. The other thing is that detection potions are inconvenient for a lot of builds. They preclude your regular potion that may give you something you also need, such as stamina to recover from the blocking and dodge rolling you did when you got ganked.

I feel like speed is a tool many players often overlook or devalue. It's so good for avoiding damage...if someone can't get in range of you, they can't deal damage to you, so the faster you can get out of their range, the sooner you start avoiding their damage, thus you indirectly counter damage.

Having ran Wild Hunt on my NB paired with Darloc I definitely miss that combo so bad. It would be useful especially with how Cloak is currently working this patch. But yeah I think Magblade needs it a bit more than Stamblade for sure.

Reverb

No I don't use it

Sometimes in Imperial City, but never in cyrodiil. I’m more likely to slot magelight if there’s a NB around who’s crutching on cloak.