Improvements for pressure builds

TheBonesXXX

Dual Wield
Rapid Strikes: Ignores dodge roll and block while flanking.

Makes it so it has a catch mechanic and doesn't get completely nulled by block and roll builds, it's too easily shut down.

Ruffian: Increase damage from 15% to 20 - 25 percent.

That way positioning and timing matters.

Sorc: Bound Armaments, instant while channeling.

This abilities damage doesn't justify the channel time, it does not hit hard enough to be stand alone.

DK, Temp, Nec: Whip, Jabs, and Scythe should always be a contender with d swing.

All these classes have decent dot damage. Could be damage scaled appropriately.

Stam whip morph, maybe make it chain into other abilities smoother.

NB dots are weak for their utility being stripped from them.

Really all about making sure pressure builds have their fair shake in PvP.

Fawn4287

Jabs and scythe are AOEs that aren’t really comparable with wrecking blow, scythe is more comparable to an ability like cleave or spin to win rather than a single target channeled spammable like wrecking blow. If anything wrecking blow is inconsistent and clunky in comparison to a far better skill in this meta like surprise attack.

DOTs are actually just an incredibly difficult thing to balance, on one hand they are weak or healing is really strong and are nearly useless like in the current meta. DOTs become too strong and anything without a cleanse is unplayable like the meta when 10 ticks of abilities like soul trap, rearming trap and entropy would hit like 15k+ and a magplar or a magdk would literally apply 4 DOTs and even without being in line of sight kill anything that couldn’t cleanse them. Dying to a pure dot build that does nothing but attempt to take 1v1s and basically permablocks and applies dots feels almost as bad dying to a pure proc set build, being able to apply a few DOTs which end up putting so much pressure on a normal build can’t go on the offensive makes for boring gameplay with little to no counters other almost spamming a cleanse or being a tank.

TheBonesXXX

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Jabs and scythe are AOEs that aren’t really comparable with wrecking blow, scythe is more comparable to an ability like cleave or spin to win rather than a single target channeled spammable like wrecking blow. If anything wrecking blow is inconsistent and clunky in comparison to a far better skill in this meta like surprise attack.

DOTs are actually just an incredibly difficult thing to balance, on one hand they are weak or healing is really strong and are nearly useless like in the current meta. DOTs become too strong and anything without a cleanse is unplayable like the meta when 10 ticks of abilities like soul trap, rearming trap and entropy would hit like 15k+ and a magplar or a magdk would literally apply 4 DOTs and even without being in line of sight kill anything that couldn’t cleanse them. Dying to a pure dot build that does nothing but attempt to take 1v1s and basically permablocks and applies dots feels almost as bad dying to a pure proc set build, being able to apply a few DOTs which end up putting so much pressure on a normal build can’t go on the offensive makes for boring gameplay with little to no counters other almost spamming a cleanse or being a tank.

This thread isnt comparing the functions of Dizzy vs other spammables. Merely stating other class spammables need to be as appealing.

Surprise attack is 1 skill from a class who's own kit has better choices than the weapon.

The topic is pressure builds. Lining burst has a low input and high reward for the amount of risk it assumes. In other words it's very easy to do.

Channeling rapids or jabs keeps you stuck in an animation where you cannot use anymore abilities. But especially rapids.

Dying to a pure dot build is your choice, cleanse is available to everyone. Three class purge it, one class can suppress it and the other two have access to cleanse.

There's no excuses.

Lining burst is a cake walk, anyone can do it with a little bit of practice. Not sure how anyone finds perform basic functions fun.

This is about pressure builds.

Waffennacht

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Jabs and scythe are AOEs that aren’t really comparable with wrecking blow, scythe is more comparable to an ability like cleave or spin to win rather than a single target channeled spammable like wrecking blow. If anything wrecking blow is inconsistent and clunky in comparison to a far better skill in this meta like surprise attack.

DOTs are actually just an incredibly difficult thing to balance, on one hand they are weak or healing is really strong and are nearly useless like in the current meta. DOTs become too strong and anything without a cleanse is unplayable like the meta when 10 ticks of abilities like soul trap, rearming trap and entropy would hit like 15k+ and a magplar or a magdk would literally apply 4 DOTs and even without being in line of sight kill anything that couldn’t cleanse them. Dying to a pure dot build that does nothing but attempt to take 1v1s and basically permablocks and applies dots feels almost as bad dying to a pure proc set build, being able to apply a few DOTs which end up putting so much pressure on a normal build can’t go on the offensive makes for boring gameplay with little to no counters other almost spamming a cleanse or being a tank.

This thread is comparing the functions of Dizzy vs other spammables. Merely stating other class spammables need to be as appealing.

Surprise attack is 1 skill from a class who's own kit has better choices than the weapon.

The topic is pressure builds. Lining burst has a low input and high reward for the amount of risk it assumes. In other words it's very easy to do.

Channeling rapids or jabs keeps you stuck in an animation where you cannot use anymore abilities. But especially rapids.

Dying to a pure dot build is your choice, cleanse is available to everyone. Three class purge it, one class can suppress it and the other two have access to cleanse.

There's no excuses.

Lining burst is a cake walk, anyone can do it with a little bit of practice. Not sure how anyone finds perform basic functions fun.

This is about pressure builds.

I do agree with the over statement here. Killing someone in a few GCDs would require far less thought than a drawn out brawl where both players are fully aware and engaged with each other.

TheBonesXXX

Waffennacht wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Jabs and scythe are AOEs that aren’t really comparable with wrecking blow, scythe is more comparable to an ability like cleave or spin to win rather than a single target channeled spammable like wrecking blow. If anything wrecking blow is inconsistent and clunky in comparison to a far better skill in this meta like surprise attack.

DOTs are actually just an incredibly difficult thing to balance, on one hand they are weak or healing is really strong and are nearly useless like in the current meta. DOTs become too strong and anything without a cleanse is unplayable like the meta when 10 ticks of abilities like soul trap, rearming trap and entropy would hit like 15k+ and a magplar or a magdk would literally apply 4 DOTs and even without being in line of sight kill anything that couldn’t cleanse them. Dying to a pure dot build that does nothing but attempt to take 1v1s and basically permablocks and applies dots feels almost as bad dying to a pure proc set build, being able to apply a few DOTs which end up putting so much pressure on a normal build can’t go on the offensive makes for boring gameplay with little to no counters other almost spamming a cleanse or being a tank.

This thread is comparing the functions of Dizzy vs other spammables. Merely stating other class spammables need to be as appealing.

Surprise attack is 1 skill from a class who's own kit has better choices than the weapon.

The topic is pressure builds. Lining burst has a low input and high reward for the amount of risk it assumes. In other words it's very easy to do.

Channeling rapids or jabs keeps you stuck in an animation where you cannot use anymore abilities. But especially rapids.

Dying to a pure dot build is your choice, cleanse is available to everyone. Three class purge it, one class can suppress it and the other two have access to cleanse.

There's no excuses.

Lining burst is a cake walk, anyone can do it with a little bit of practice. Not sure how anyone finds perform basic functions fun.

This is about pressure builds.

I do agree with the over statement here. Killing someone in a few GCDs would require far less thought than a drawn out brawl where both players are fully aware and engaged with each other.

I appreciate your response @Waffennacht.

I didn't really want to actually burst peoples bubble, but timing burst is the easiest thing to do in this game and its just simply not difficult.

Let someone play a pressure build and see how much harder it is to survive a confrontation simply because they're locked out of all functions.

I will give an example, Bound Armaments requires a channel, yet Sorc now have the easiest timed burst in the game. It's literally just a 1 use old style Camo Hunter proc on demand. Meanwhile, Bound armaments requires weaves and activation and you still get locked out of other abilities.

All the classes have an easy to use timed burst ability which requires minimal input. Power of the Light, Crystal Weapons, Merciless, Dragon Leap, Shalks, and Blastbones.

It's just really dumb for people to think any of these abilities with a few other timed abilities are high functioning. They separate the ceiling from the floor by a piece of paper.

relentless_turnip

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Waffennacht wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Jabs and scythe are AOEs that aren’t really comparable with wrecking blow, scythe is more comparable to an ability like cleave or spin to win rather than a single target channeled spammable like wrecking blow. If anything wrecking blow is inconsistent and clunky in comparison to a far better skill in this meta like surprise attack.

DOTs are actually just an incredibly difficult thing to balance, on one hand they are weak or healing is really strong and are nearly useless like in the current meta. DOTs become too strong and anything without a cleanse is unplayable like the meta when 10 ticks of abilities like soul trap, rearming trap and entropy would hit like 15k+ and a magplar or a magdk would literally apply 4 DOTs and even without being in line of sight kill anything that couldn’t cleanse them. Dying to a pure dot build that does nothing but attempt to take 1v1s and basically permablocks and applies dots feels almost as bad dying to a pure proc set build, being able to apply a few DOTs which end up putting so much pressure on a normal build can’t go on the offensive makes for boring gameplay with little to no counters other almost spamming a cleanse or being a tank.

This thread is comparing the functions of Dizzy vs other spammables. Merely stating other class spammables need to be as appealing.

Surprise attack is 1 skill from a class who's own kit has better choices than the weapon.

The topic is pressure builds. Lining burst has a low input and high reward for the amount of risk it assumes. In other words it's very easy to do.

Channeling rapids or jabs keeps you stuck in an animation where you cannot use anymore abilities. But especially rapids.

Dying to a pure dot build is your choice, cleanse is available to everyone. Three class purge it, one class can suppress it and the other two have access to cleanse.

There's no excuses.

Lining burst is a cake walk, anyone can do it with a little bit of practice. Not sure how anyone finds perform basic functions fun.

This is about pressure builds.

I do agree with the over statement here. Killing someone in a few GCDs would require far less thought than a drawn out brawl where both players are fully aware and engaged with each other.

I appreciate your response @Waffennacht.

I didn't really want to actually burst peoples bubble, but timing burst is the easiest thing to do in this game and its just simply not difficult.

Let someone play a pressure build and see how much harder it is to survive a confrontation simply because they're locked out of all functions.

I will give an example, Bound Armaments requires a channel, yet Sorc now have the easiest timed burst in the game. It's literally just a 1 use old style Camo Hunter proc on demand. Meanwhile, Bound armaments requires weaves and activation and you still get locked out of other abilities.

All the classes have an easy to use timed burst ability which requires minimal input. Power of the Light, Crystal Weapons, Merciless, Dragon Leap, Shalks, and Blastbones.

It's just really dumb for people to think any of these abilities with a few other timed abilities are high functioning. They separate the ceiling from the floor by a piece of paper.

Bound armaments isn't channeled. It fires 4 projectiles every 0.3 secs. The player doesn't channel it though, you can activate and instantly roll dodge cancel for example. I would prefer it all fired at once like spectral bow does.

I have played dw a lot on sorc and necro. I agree it needs some love to be on par with 2h. Cost of skills and overall recovery offered from rally would be my biggest gripe. I think rally should be available from the fighters guild or another universal line. DW offers a lot more damage from locking people down and it probably needs more utility in this area. Like if the first hit from hidden blade immobilised and the second was a gap closer. Even if it put the opponent off balance without the requirement of interupting it would give you the same opportunity to stun as dizzy does. I think dizzy should lose the snare and it balanced IMO.

Dots need a buff, but I don't think it's anymore skilled to apply dots than it is to line up burst. I played only magdk for about year and half, during scalebreaker it was laughable. I hate the "cleanse is available to everyone" argument. Because while yes you can technically slot it on every class this isn't a option for a lot of builds and classes. Not without causing massive detriment to other aspects of your build. Bar space is an issue for a lot of them and then isn't for others. This is why templars were the best during this time, because they already slotted ritual and didn't need to change anything to succeed.

I do think burst does require a bit more skill IMO. Making everything land together is harder than applying dots and spamming your spammable. I have played a lot of classes and builds at this point with at least a modest amount of success on all of them. I think all classes need good delayed burst with access to decent dots to give us options. I think dots should be able to be out healed though and it should take more than just applying them to kill people, they definetly need a buff though👍 magdk for instance should be playable without procs.

TheBonesXXX

relentless_turnip wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Jabs and scythe are AOEs that aren’t really comparable with wrecking blow, scythe is more comparable to an ability like cleave or spin to win rather than a single target channeled spammable like wrecking blow. If anything wrecking blow is inconsistent and clunky in comparison to a far better skill in this meta like surprise attack.

DOTs are actually just an incredibly difficult thing to balance, on one hand they are weak or healing is really strong and are nearly useless like in the current meta. DOTs become too strong and anything without a cleanse is unplayable like the meta when 10 ticks of abilities like soul trap, rearming trap and entropy would hit like 15k+ and a magplar or a magdk would literally apply 4 DOTs and even without being in line of sight kill anything that couldn’t cleanse them. Dying to a pure dot build that does nothing but attempt to take 1v1s and basically permablocks and applies dots feels almost as bad dying to a pure proc set build, being able to apply a few DOTs which end up putting so much pressure on a normal build can’t go on the offensive makes for boring gameplay with little to no counters other almost spamming a cleanse or being a tank.

This thread is comparing the functions of Dizzy vs other spammables. Merely stating other class spammables need to be as appealing.

Surprise attack is 1 skill from a class who's own kit has better choices than the weapon.

The topic is pressure builds. Lining burst has a low input and high reward for the amount of risk it assumes. In other words it's very easy to do.

Channeling rapids or jabs keeps you stuck in an animation where you cannot use anymore abilities. But especially rapids.

Dying to a pure dot build is your choice, cleanse is available to everyone. Three class purge it, one class can suppress it and the other two have access to cleanse.

There's no excuses.

Lining burst is a cake walk, anyone can do it with a little bit of practice. Not sure how anyone finds perform basic functions fun.

This is about pressure builds.

I do agree with the over statement here. Killing someone in a few GCDs would require far less thought than a drawn out brawl where both players are fully aware and engaged with each other.

I appreciate your response @Waffennacht.

I didn't really want to actually burst peoples bubble, but timing burst is the easiest thing to do in this game and its just simply not difficult.

Let someone play a pressure build and see how much harder it is to survive a confrontation simply because they're locked out of all functions.

I will give an example, Bound Armaments requires a channel, yet Sorc now have the easiest timed burst in the game. It's literally just a 1 use old style Camo Hunter proc on demand. Meanwhile, Bound armaments requires weaves and activation and you still get locked out of other abilities.

All the classes have an easy to use timed burst ability which requires minimal input. Power of the Light, Crystal Weapons, Merciless, Dragon Leap, Shalks, and Blastbones.

It's just really dumb for people to think any of these abilities with a few other timed abilities are high functioning. They separate the ceiling from the floor by a piece of paper.

Bound armaments isn't channeled. It fires 4 projectiles every 0.3 secs. The player doesn't channel it though, you can activate and instantly roll dodge cancel for example. I would prefer it all fired at once like spectral bow does.

I have played dw a lot on sorc and necro. I agree it needs some love to be on par with 2h. Cost of skills and overall recovery offered from rally would be my biggest gripe. I think rally should be available from the fighters guild or another universal line. DW offers a lot more damage from locking people down and it probably needs more utility in this area. Like if the first hit from hidden blade immobilised and the second was a gap closer. Even if it put the opponent off balance without the requirement of interupting it would give you the same opportunity to stun as dizzy does. I think dizzy should lose the snare and it balanced IMO.

Dots need a buff, but I don't think it's anymore skilled to apply dots than it is to line up burst. I played only magdk for about year and half, during scalebreaker it was laughable. I hate the "cleanse is available to everyone" argument. Because while yes you can technically slot it on every class this isn't a option for a lot of builds and classes. Not without causing massive detriment to other aspects of your build. Bar space is an issue for a lot of them and then isn't for others. This is why templars were the best during this time, because they already slotted ritual and didn't need to change anything to succeed.

I do think burst does require a bit more skill IMO. Making everything land together is harder than applying dots and spamming your spammable. I have played a lot of classes and builds at this point with at least a modest amount of success on all of them. I think all classes need good delayed burst with access to decent dots to give us options. I think dots should be able to be out healed though and it should take more than just applying them to kill people, they definetly need a buff though👍 magdk for instance should be playable without procs.

You cannot use the four daggers with rapid Strikes. You must choose the four daggers or rapid Strikes. They cannot be used simultaneously.

It would be a huge improvement.

I think dots and bound Armaments should be additional pressure to direct pressure abilities. That sad magicka needs direct pressure outside of lightning heavy.

Theignson

There is a streamer named sekaar who has a Mag DK build that uses 3 dots and powerlash, thats it (plus leap). He does fine killing lots of people; of course he is in a group so the build is not really 1 v 1

He explains the build in a video and you can watch it. It is just spinners plus impregnable, endurance and 1 piece VS

Theignson

The real question is whether to use the new CP blue star that boosts dots by 15%

TheBonesXXX

Theignson wrote: »

There is a streamer named sekaar who has a Mag DK build that uses 3 dots and powerlash, thats it (plus leap). He does fine killing lots of people; of course he is in a group so the build is not really 1 v 1

He explains the build in a video and you can watch it. It is just spinners plus impregnable, endurance and 1 piece VS

Aye, he's using a combination of pressure and burst, it's what MagDK excels at.

Im more talking about direct pressure with pressure support.