The future of Eternal Vigor

sionIV

I've been enjoying my Eternal Vigor set (both in PvE and PvP), while it isn't meta, it makes my build (hybrid) play much smoother, and I don't notice the 5% from New Moon Acolyte.

I've been so satisfied with the set that I've been thinking about golding out the Jewelry (2x Rings 1x Neck) that I have of the set. My only concern is that my google search has lead me to a lot of threads talking about nerfing this set. It would really suck to spend 12x Chromium Platings on upgrading the jewelry and then have it get nerfed in a few months.

So my question is the following: Do you believe that Eternal Vigor will receive a nerf? What is ZOS history when it comes to sustain sets?

jaws343

Honestly, even if it remains in it's current condition, it really isn't necessary to gold out for the very minimal returns you would get by doing so.

sionIV

jaws343 wrote: »

Honestly, even if it remains in it's current condition, it really isn't necessary to gold out for the very minimal returns you would get by doing so.

While it might not be necessary, I do have the material for it, I could see myself using it on a lot of my characters, and I would like to squeeze everything out of the set, even if the returns are minimal.

I've golded several sets of Jewelry so far, but this is the first time where I'm actually worried that ZOS might completely destroy the set.

El_Borracho

jaws343 wrote: »

Honestly, even if it remains in it's current condition, it really isn't necessary to gold out for the very minimal returns you would get by doing so.

I'm with this. For PVP the gains are minimal. For PVE, which I'm guessing isn't veteran group endgame content, I don't know what purpose the incremental boost in regen would serve.

In the end, play how you want to play. Its only gold, which is the easiest thing to earn in the game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

In my experience, every time I gold a jewelry set, they immediately nerf it.

Best reason to gold a set is not for the 5 trait bonuses, which is a negligible diff between purple and gold, but for the unique traits like bloodthirsty, infused etc. If using Robust, Healthy or Arcane, I would never gold jewelry for whatever that is worth (and I gold just about everything).

I will also say what I always say. Your build is never guaranteed to survive the next patch. Gold with care.

method__01

don't, purple jewelry is enough for everything
you can use these gold plattings for 3 master jewelry writs that will give you 600+ vouchers each so you buy some set stations or some recipes from vendor

Oreyn_Bearclaw

method__01 wrote: »

don't, purple jewelry is enough for everything
you can use these gold plattings for 3 master jewelry writs that will give you 600+ vouchers each so you buy some set stations or some recipes from vendor

Not often you hear an argument in favor of Gold Jewelry writs. LOL. Pretty sure you would be better off selling the Chromium directly.

method__01

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

method__01 wrote: »

don't, purple jewelry is enough for everything
you can use these gold plattings for 3 master jewelry writs that will give you 600+ vouchers each so you buy some set stations or some recipes from vendor

Not often you hear an argument in favor of Gold Jewelry writs. LOL. Pretty sure you would be better off selling the Chromium directly.

so in your opinion,he would do better if golding a set that proly get nerfed to oblivion in 4-6 months-LOL- and not buy something really helpful in game like some crafting statins ? lol again



ignorance is bliss

sproattt

Don’t do it, only gold your weapons. If you’re some sort of big boy Balla do it, $$$.

tsaescishoeshiner

sionIV wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Honestly, even if it remains in it's current condition, it really isn't necessary to gold out for the very minimal returns you would get by doing so.

While it might not be necessary, I do have the material for it, I could see myself using it on a lot of my characters, and I would like to squeeze everything out of the set, even if the returns are minimal.

I've golded several sets of Jewelry so far, but this is the first time where I'm actually worried that ZOS might completely destroy the set.

Having the material for it doesn't change what the material is worth. It currently costs over 700k per jewelry piece on PC NA to gold out purple jewelry. If you have Chromium, you could just sell it.

Here is how I think of it: If I didn't have this very expensive material, would I buy it? If not, I should sell it. Golding three jewelry pieces right now is just eating 2 million gold for a minor stat increase.

Anyway to answer your question, we don't know, but they recently reworked armor passives, base stats, and CP, so I would expect further adjustments to all of these in Update 30. This could impact your build and sustain, and change how good this set is indirectly.

That being said, all sets are liable to be at least slightly changed every major patch, so the question isn't whether it'll get nerfed, but whether it would be worth it to gold this set for 2 months of use. There's no guarantee that any given set will stay the same for a year or more.

As far as popular heavy armor sets, Pariah was nerfed into near-obscurity a while ago with a whopping 33% armor reduction. PvP sustain sets haven't been nerfed much in a while, but health recovery sets have been adjusted lately—that's the part of the set I would expect a nerf to.

Brrrofski

700k??

Either you're being ripped off, or PC NA as a whole is stupidly expensive. Which when I see costs of items on there usually, it's always healer, especially gold mats.

You can get playing for like 90k on xbox EU.

To answer your question OP, nobody knows. Your guess is as good as anyone's.

Larcomar

Two thoughts

First, as a rough rule of thumb, rosin < temper < dreugh wax <<< chromium. Golding weapons is a big dps increase for relatively cheap mats. Golding armor is a much smaller upgrade for a lot more money. Golding jewelry is a pretty neglible increase for an enormous amount of money. jewelry's the last thing Id upgrade.

Second, the way zos operate, *anything* that's worth golding out will almost inevitably get nerfed next update. And when we say nerf, we mean hit with a giant sledge hammer. If you can afford to gold out EV and whatever set you'll have to replace it with great. but if it's a one off, I'd say no.

gariondavey

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In my experience, every time I gold a jewelry set, they immediately nerf it.

Best reason to gold a set is not for the 5 trait bonuses, which is a negligible diff between purple and gold, but for the unique traits like bloodthirsty, infused etc. If using Robust, Healthy or Arcane, I would never gold jewelry for whatever that is worth (and I gold just about everything).

I will also say what I always say. Your build is never guaranteed to survive the next patch. Gold with care.

This.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

method__01 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

method__01 wrote: »

don't, purple jewelry is enough for everything
you can use these gold plattings for 3 master jewelry writs that will give you 600+ vouchers each so you buy some set stations or some recipes from vendor

Not often you hear an argument in favor of Gold Jewelry writs. LOL. Pretty sure you would be better off selling the Chromium directly.

so in your opinion,he would do better if golding a set that proly get nerfed to oblivion in 4-6 months-LOL- and not buy something really helpful in game like some crafting statins ? lol again



ignorance is bliss

@method__01

No, I was simply pointing out that last I looked, master writs were a bad option if you have excess chromium plating. Absolutely gold out sets if you want. But I question using them with gold writ vouchers as the inputs are more valuable the than outputs. Your opportunity cost for one piece of gold jewelry is around 800k. 800k is worth more than 600 vouchers. Unless the market has changed significanly since I last bought/sold writs and vouchers, you would be better off selling the Chromium and buying things like crafting stations in the open market. Things maybe different on your platform. I just know that on PC, the general consensus is that gold JC writs are upside down in terms of price vs reward.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Brrrofski wrote: »

700k??

Either you're being ripped off, or PC NA as a whole is stupidly expensive. Which when I see costs of items on there usually, it's always healer, especially gold mats.

You can get playing for like 90k on xbox EU.

To answer your question OP, nobody knows. Your guess is as good as anyone's.

Its misleading to compare economies across platforms. I will say, that is a shockingly low number, but i will take your word for it. I would wager the average PC player has far more gold than the average console players, which means gold is worth less, and prices are generally higher. It's just easier to make gold on PC, especially with the automation of writs via addons. Gold sellers are also more prevalent on PC, because its far easier to get away with botting. The more gold people have, the less it is worth.

I assure you that if you list a Chromium plating for 150k in a trader on PC, its gone in a blink of an eye.

Larcomar

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

700k??

Either you're being ripped off, or PC NA as a whole is stupidly expensive. Which when I see costs of items on there usually, it's always healer, especially gold mats.

You can get playing for like 90k on xbox EU.

To answer your question OP, nobody knows. Your guess is as good as anyone's.

Its misleading to compare economies across platforms. I will say, that is a shockingly low number, but i will take your word for it. I would wager the average PC player has far more gold than the average console players, which means gold is worth less, and prices are generally higher. It's just easier to make gold on PC, especially with the automation of writs via addons. Gold sellers are also more prevalent on PC, because its far easier to get away with botting. The more gold people have, the less it is worth.

I assure you that if you list a Chromium plating for 150k in a trader on PC, its gone in a blink of an eye.

Im guessing he's meaning the price of gold rings not chromium plates - he's talking about "items" and "always healer." (Either that, or he's forgetting that you need 10 grains to make a plating and what, 3 or 4 platings to gold an item out. If it cost me 90k to gold a ring out, wow).

Thats prob a good pt tho. If Op cd get EV rings on the vendor, or from someone who bought them off the vendor, the equation wd be a lot more favorable. I can't remember seeing them on it but you never know.

Firstmep

method__01 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

method__01 wrote: »

don't, purple jewelry is enough for everything
you can use these gold plattings for 3 master jewelry writs that will give you 600+ vouchers each so you buy some set stations or some recipes from vendor

Not often you hear an argument in favor of Gold Jewelry writs. LOL. Pretty sure you would be better off selling the Chromium directly.

so in your opinion,he would do better if golding a set that proly get nerfed to oblivion in 4-6 months-LOL- and not buy something really helpful in game like some crafting statins ? lol again



ignorance is bliss

EV already lasted a year so far.
Also Zos rarely nerfs sustain sets, they usually buff them.
I think they like the idea of people dedicating an entire 5pc set for sustain.

StarOfElyon

sionIV wrote: »

I've been enjoying my Eternal Vigor set (both in PvE and PvP), while it isn't meta, it makes my build (hybrid) play much smoother, and I don't notice the 5% from New Moon Acolyte.

I've been so satisfied with the set that I've been thinking about golding out the Jewelry (2x Rings 1x Neck) that I have of the set. My only concern is that my google search has lead me to a lot of threads talking about nerfing this set. It would really suck to spend 12x Chromium Platings on upgrading the jewelry and then have it get nerfed in a few months.

So my question is the following: Do you believe that Eternal Vigor will receive a nerf? What is ZOS history when it comes to sustain sets?

It probably will get "adjusted" just as New Moon Acolyte did. I use Shacklebreaker on my three hybrids. Maybe you should try that if you're concerned about a nerf.

twing1_

I really don't think this set will be nerfed. People look at the stats it provides and say it's overloaded (because it looks like that at first glance), but by ZOS's set balancing metrics it is not.

They like to look at 5 pc set bonuses in terms of the number of 2-4 pc set bonuses it provides. For sets without a conditional proc condition, the 5 pc bonus is capped at 2.32x a typical 2-4 pc bonus to that Stat (look at hundings rage/julianos, where 300 damage is ~2.32x 129 damage). Sets with conditional proc conditions are permitted to be of higher value, something like clever alchemist (600+ dmg). Harder proc conditions typically translate to higher stats granted.

As a fairly easy conditional proc (of either being above or below 50% health), eternal vigor should give a bit more stats than an unconditional 5 pc bonus.

Comparing the health recovery bonus portion of Eternal vigor to similar sets (where a 2-4 pc bonus is valued at 387 health recovery for some reason, just check out the numbers on bee keepers gear and endurance set for evidence of this), 5 pc health recovery of eternal vigor is valued at ~2.61 typical 2-4 pc set bonuses (1011/387=2.61). Because of similar proc conditions on the stam or mag recovery, it's safe to assume this is being valued at the same 2.61x value, which seems to hold true because 337=129x2.61. This does only account for one of the main stat recovery bonuses, either Magicka recovery or stamina recovery and not both, but it's likely ZOS is looking at this like a hybrid set. As is the case with other hybdrid sets (domihaus/swarm mother 1 pc each granting 1096 mag and stam, or shacklebreaker 4 pc providing both 129 Weapon and Spell damage), it is within ZOS guidelines to only count one or the other stat bonuses toward the overall stat density without it being overloaded, giving eternal vigor's 337 mag and stam recovery bonus a value of only 2.62x typical 2-4 pc bonuses.

Add in the max health bonus (1407/1206=1.16), and the total stat density of the eternal vigor 5 pc at any given time (either below or above 50% health) is only 3.77x typical 2-4 pc bonuses, which falls well within their permitted stat density guidelines for 5pc bonuses.

divnyi

Do you realize you increase chances of nerfing it by creating this thread?

StarOfElyon

Let me add what I said about EV needing an adjustment in another thread:

Eternal Vigor:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Not only does it give a line of health but it also gives other bonuses beyond the standard. Keeping in mind that sustain bonuses are typically pretty stacked, at most, the set should give you:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 300 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 300 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

And to remove the proc condition, I would adjust the set this way:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 167 Magicka Recovery, Adds 167 Stamina Recovery, Adds 167 Health Recovery


Even for a sustain set, EV is out there. And we can reasonably assume it was designed that way to help sell Greymoor. The changes I propose bring it closer to being balanced.

sionIV

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Let me add what I said about EV needing an adjustment in another thread:

Eternal Vigor:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Not only does it give a line of health but it also gives other bonuses beyond the standard. Keeping in mind that sustain bonuses are typically pretty stacked, at most, the set should give you:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 300 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 300 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

And to remove the proc condition, I would adjust the set this way:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 167 Magicka Recovery, Adds 167 Stamina Recovery, Adds 167 Health Recovery


Even for a sustain set, EV is out there. And we can reasonably assume it was designed that way to help sell Greymoor. The changes I propose bring it closer to being balanced.

I would still use the set if they removed the 1011 Health Recovery while under 50%, but if they reduce the Stamina/Magicka recovery on the 5 piece, I wouldn't use it anymore.

StarOfElyon

sionIV wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Let me add what I said about EV needing an adjustment in another thread:

Eternal Vigor:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Not only does it give a line of health but it also gives other bonuses beyond the standard. Keeping in mind that sustain bonuses are typically pretty stacked, at most, the set should give you:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 300 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 300 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

And to remove the proc condition, I would adjust the set this way:

(5 items) Adds 1407 Maximum Health, Adds 167 Magicka Recovery, Adds 167 Stamina Recovery, Adds 167 Health Recovery


Even for a sustain set, EV is out there. And we can reasonably assume it was designed that way to help sell Greymoor. The changes I propose bring it closer to being balanced.

I would still use the set if they removed the 1011 Health Recovery while under 50%, but if they reduce the Stamina/Magicka recovery on the 5 piece, I wouldn't use it anymore.

A lot of people would be mad but they should see it coming. The set is over tuned.