PvP Build - Stun + Gank is the only meta now?

CaptainVenom

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

Firstmep

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to store Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ MS and can't always think that fast.

Those 5 skills hitting at once probably has to do with your ping and people being able to, you know combo skills together.

Merllow

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

CaptainVenom

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

Stahlor

CaptainVenom wrote: »

... where are the magicka builds?

Well, stam was dominating pvp before the patch and - oh wonder - giving light armour increased physical damage, made magicka even weaker.

Merllow

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

I understand you, I am a PVP player and I have a ping of 140 and it is unbearable when what I see does not correspond to reality, and what is happening on your screen does not fit into my imagination at all. The server is generally located in Frankfurt and my direct ping to Frankfurt is 50, but in TECO my ping is 150, this game only lets Europe to the top level.

Merllow

Stahlor wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

... where are the magicka builds?

Well, stam was dominating pvp before the patch and - oh wonder - giving light armour increased physical damage, made magicka even weaker.

ahaha, yes indeed now the magic is mostly running away) If you could survive from a couple of hits

Vevvev

CaptainVenom wrote: »

where are the magicka builds?.

Waves happily!

Yes, I still run light armor and build glassy, but I at least have a plan going forward. Someone thought the reason I didn't die was I used damage shields, but it was because I used the stage 3 vampire passive stacked with Major Resolve on top of my base resistances to try to mitigate as much damage as I could. Also slotted some CP into the damage mitigation passive stars while also boosting my spell damage even more so my heals had a much bigger impact.

Struggle to 1vX without the vampire ultimate, but in a 1v1 my magicka Dragonknight is still a force to be reckoned with.

StarOfElyon

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

In the past, procs could save you. Without procs, you die. It's as it should be.

Goregrinder

StarOfElyon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

In the past, procs could save you. Without procs, you die. It's as it should be.

No more training wheels. You either know how and when to manually click buttons that heal or deal damage or you don't. ZOS aint gonna take the wheel now.

Dunning_Kruger

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

We can’t balance the game around your bad internet.

CaptainVenom

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

We can’t balance the game around your bad internet.

You have no idea how latency works, right? There's no way for my latency to be better than this because I don't live in the US. But if you think my internet's bad, feel free to pay me a better one.

tsaescishoeshiner

StarOfElyon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

In the past, procs could save you. Without procs, you die. It's as it should be.

They're talking about IC, which still has proc sets lol, and those are definitely being used by a lot of gankers and stam characters.

Update 29 made characters squishier in CP and no-CP PvP, so roll dodging and block have become more important—sucks to have lotta ping. 2-hand builds are really popular because Dizzying Swing is so good, and gank builds are doing well in the squishy meta. I definitely feel you—it seems like they're everywhere. I'd focus on having more max health and definitely health recovery, and maybe keep a damage shield on yourself if you can sustain it. Hard to help without knowing more about your build.

echo2omega

Players are dying left and right in PVP now and its great.

Seraphayel

People here are highly overrating the influence of your ms to these issues. We’re not talking about 500ms or more. 200ms is okay, thats how we played MMORPGs 15 years ago and it worked just fine.

In ESO it’s mostly ZOS‘ servers that cause the problems, not a higher ping. All of this stuff happens even with 20ms because of the desyncs and build-in delays that are caused by either ESOs game engine or ZOS‘ servers. My ping is very low and I constantly witness these problems, especially in battlegrounds.

JayKwellen

They're still out there, it's just kinda rough being mag right now. Most of the mag characters you'll see are either in groups, where admittedly they do great, or magsorcs.

You don't see as many magdens/magcros/magblades/magDK's outside of group settings or solo because they're just not as good on smaller scales. If you like to play solo or small-scale, if you're not specifically in love with a certain class like magden or magcro why would you ever play one when you could just swap it to stam and instantly be an order of magnitude stronger?

You could play a magden and be slow, have a rather middling spammable and a slow, expensive, easily blockable burst ulti (meteor) without any good way to ensure it's not blocked (no instant CC options) or an expensive ultimate that's good (northern storm) but isn't burst...or you could just be stamina and have more survivability, a better HoT, a better spammable, better sustain, better burst, higher damage, and a better ultimate.

If you're a solo or small-scale player and you don't have a explicit desire to play a certain niche like support (heals) or bombing, why would you ever choose mag which when compared on a 1:1 scale is typically worse in every measurable way?

Generally speaking this holds true for every classes stam variant in comparison to their mag version, with mag only outperforming stam in coordinated group settings, healing, and bombing. Couple this with ZOS's rather myopic idea that light armor wearers should specifically be penalized by taking more damage from the stamina classes that already do the most damage to them (while already taking more damage in general due to lower resistances while also generally dealing less damage/burst than said stamina classes while also having more expensive skills and worse sustain than said stamina classes), and you can see why a lot of people might not be super enthused about playing magicka in PvP.

There's a reason a majority of the good solo/1vX/small-scale guys typically play stam, and I highly doubt it's because they all just legitimately like stamina better. It's just because, in that regard, stamina just is better. If you're trying to play at the top, why purposely weaken yourself (unless you specifically want the challenge of it)? Go look up 1vXing videos of a magdens or stealth magblades (if you can even find one anymore lul) or magcros and then compare it to how many videos you can find of the stamina versions. It's not even close. Tangentially related -- should you personally come across a person Xing on a weaker mag class you should probably also steer clear because that person is guaranteed to be an absolute beast.

This rant is related to Cyrodiil though. I generally stay away from the festering proc-laden detritus pit that is BG and IC, so maybe it's different there? I doubt it, but you never know.

SshadowSscale

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I play with 250 to 300 ping and do just fine..... hell a lot of the times I have to carry my teams in bgs just to get a win..... yeah bankers are annoying but even with 250 ping I have enough time to react and recover afterwards.....

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Hold on a sec... when was stun(immobolize)+wombo-combo not meta?

tsaescishoeshiner

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Hold on a sec... when was stun(immobolize)+wombo-combo not meta?

Ah ... the Scalebreaker DoT meta of Summer/Fall 2019. Simpler times ... It was just throw DoTs on people and wait for the AP. A bountiful summer harvest.

Anyway, OP seems to be talking specifically about (stamblade?) gankers rather than just any old wombo combo.

Zer0_CooL

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

There are 34 other zones you can go questing...

divnyi

200ms is 2s. Imagine 2 second delay between your click and character action in fast-paced PvP. That's full 2 GCDs.

And no, gankers are not PvP meta in BGs. Speaking as a player who played top-MMR 4mans, most likely there will be zero NBs here.

Dunning_Kruger

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

We can’t balance the game around your bad internet.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

We can’t balance the game around your bad internet.

You have no idea how latency works, right? There's no way for my latency to be better than this because I don't live in the US. But if you think my internet's bad, feel free to pay me a better one.

I do I’m just saying it’s a burst meta and honestly they shouldn’t balance a game ever around 200 latency players. That should be considered and unacceptable level of latency which is hysterical since even for NA players it’s the norm of latency during prime time.

Seraphayel

divnyi wrote: »

200ms is 2s. Imagine 2 second delay between your click and character action in fast-paced PvP. That's full 2 GCDs.

200ms is 0.2 seconds and overall barely recognizable in a game like ESO with such a wonky game engine and bad servers. In an FPS 200ms is a lot, in an MMORPG it’s not.

Again, ESOs own performance is in 99.9% the problem, not your own ms or hardware. I‘m having the same issues on an Xbox Series X with 20ms than someone on an old PC with 200ms.

MindOfTheSwarm

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I've been to BG and Cyrodiil and like... where are the magicka builds? All I could see were stamina gank builds. Is this due to proc set ban in Cyrodiil?

Plus this one is annoying AF... almost no counterplay: they just come and like use 5 skills in one second and you're dead. PvP is surely no fun anymore. I had to slot Precognition for a slim chance to escape that, since I play in perma 200+ ms and can't always think that fast.

Really, it's so frustrating to go questing in IC like that.

My friend, forget about pvp with a ping of 200. Most likely the person has already hit you for a few seconds, and then you saw that you died in 1 second. In this game, ping plays a huge role and guys who have a ping of 60 have an advantage similar to a cheat. You will see the player running towards you on his screen, but in fact, on his screen, he is already turning a combo on you.

I know, but how's that fair? I'm not from the US, so this 200ms is the best I've got.

nothing you can do really. However you could run a different build and equip sets that can help buy you some time when attacked. And play in a group, your team mates can save you.