The pros and cons of Malacath's Band of Brutality

master_vanargand

Malacath's Band of Brutality is essential for PvP game balance.
In the old days, Impenetrable was the king of PvP armor traits.
But there is Malacath's Band of Brutality now.
Which throws away critical damage and increases damage by 25%.

So this is rock-paper-scissors.
Impenetrable is strong against critical build, but weak against Malacath build.
This is a great benefit that expand the possibilities for other armor traits in PvP.

It also has a negative effect, but it's not the fault of Malacath's Band of Brutality.
I's just that the proc damage sets are too strong.
Even in PvE, Relequen in proc damage sets is the king of DPS sets.

From this it is clear that the proc damage sets need to be nerfed.

Waffennacht

I could very easily live with malacath not buffing procs

In PvP....

It would hurt one build of mine in PvE; but I suppose well worth it

olsborg

The biggest drawback of malacath is that it requires a slot to use. Sadly its that strong. Make it not buff proccs and make it so you cant crit heal either.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Mythic Items were a terrible idea and should have never made it anywhere into the game. Malacath, pale order, wild hunt, drastically change the actual mechanics of the game. It boogles the mind of why they would do this but more importantly in upsets the balance of PVP more than any other bonuses or procs. I wish ZOS realizes their mistake about using single set items that change the inherent core mechanics of the game and keep them out of pvp where they tempt people into using cancerous builds that are worse then the sloads plague three years ago.

Wolfpaw

Ring - Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot critical heal or deal critical damage.

Would be a small improvement.

Hotdog_23

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ring - Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot critical heal or deal critical damage.

Would be a small improvement.

Then if would also need to increase your healing by 25% to be fair and I don't think anyone wants that.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Wolfpaw

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ring - Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot critical heal or deal critical damage.

Would be a small improvement.

Then if would also need to increase your healing by 25% to be fair and I don't think anyone wants that.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Need is a big stretch, even in no proc/cp change pvp healing scales too much with wd/sd imo.

echo2omega

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ring - Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot critical heal or deal critical damage.

Would be a small improvement.

On the one hand I agree with you.

On the other though. How much crit chance do you have if you build for Malacath? 15% maybe 20% not really enough to make all that much of a difference.

Udrath

It should be the same percentage as major berserk. 10% increased damage. They fixed all major and minor debuffs, and kept malacath behind a pay wall. Once the new chapter is out they’ll nerf it.

Waffennacht

echo2omega wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ring - Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot critical heal or deal critical damage.

Would be a small improvement.

On the one hand I agree with you.

On the other though. How much crit chance do you have if you build for Malacath? 15% maybe 20% not really enough to make all that much of a difference.

It not crit healing isnt a loss u are right. Like most my builds have a 10% crit chance.

Grimlok_S

Malacath enables several proc based builds to straight up one shot players in both CP and no CP, without sacrificing survival the way Bomb-Blades do.

It is definitely not healthy for PvP at all.

MurderMostFoul

In BGs, the only class I would not use Malacath on is NB.

Fawn4287

Balorgh and malacath are absolutely broken and can turn a near 0 damage tank with 40-60k health into a solid damage dealer, throw in a strong health based heal and PvP becomes easy mode.

TheBonesXXX

Just make it not buff proc sets. It allowing crit heals is no big deal. Most heals won't crit enough to be significant.

StaticWave

There are no cons to malacath other than taking up 1 slot on your build. Assuming an opponent wears 7 impen and has the crit resist cp slottable, their crit resist would sit at 2970, or 46% critical dmg resistance. In order to outperform malacath, you would need at least 50% crit chance and 80% crit damage. That is a lot of crit chance investment for most classes, so it's actually better to just slot on malacath and stack into full weapon/spell dmg/pen.

Malacath needs to be removed from the game, or at least have its damage buff adjusted so that it makes sense to run a crit build.

Vermintide

Suggestion: Make Malacath allow crits, but turns off proc sets and effects.

It'd still be busted and OP, but less abusable. It's not like we can just have it removed from the game by this point, once it's there it's there.

Larcomar

Honestly, I got it, tried it, and hardly used it. I just felt there were better set ups. Personally, if I'm gonna use a mythic, I'd far rather have the mobility that say ROTWH gives me. But that's just me

L_Nici

Easiest solution for the Procspam would just be to exclude Procs from Malacaths buff. Procs could never crit, so they get 25% buff to no negative effect. I am also pretty confident, that the tankmeta would take a hit with that happening, because Procs alone wouldn't carry the damage anymore.
Overall Malacaths adjustment could solve 2 of the biggest issues in PvP, just by excluding one thing.

MurderMostFoul

Larcomar wrote: »

Honestly, I got it, tried it, and hardly used it. I just felt there were better set ups. Personally, if I'm gonna use a mythic, I'd far rather have the mobility that say ROTWH gives me. But that's just me

I would use it a lot less in CP PVP where you can get more crit chance and damage. But you can't even use it there right now.

In no CP BGs, where it is a lot harder to get crit chance and crit damage, most classes are nerfing themselves by not equipping it (if your goal is to do damage / kill players). Wild Hunt mobility is great, but the damage drop off when choosing it over Malacath is precipitous.

I personally love wild hunt and was excited to try it out this patch, but it didn't take me long to go back to Malacath.

I'd say the only other drawback to equipping it, is that you want to avoid any lines of crit chance or damage on all of your gear to maximize its effectiveness. That significantly reduces the number of options out there. But on the other hand, that could be seen as a bonus, by significantly simplifying gear choices.

Fawn4287

Only build you wouldnt use it on is a stamblade or a stamplar, it’s basically best in slot for everything else. It has basically no drawback if you are running the average ~15% crit that most people do and find a piece of gear that gives anything close to a 25% damage buff, even if nerfed 10% it would still be a good option for most heavy armour builds.

MurderMostFoul

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Only build you wouldnt use it on is a stamblade or a stamplar, it’s basically best in slot for everything else. It has basically no drawback if you are running the average ~15% crit that most people do and find a piece of gear that gives anything close to a 25% damage buff, even if nerfed 10% it would still be a good option for most heavy armour builds.

My BG stamplar prefers Malacath. I know it doesn't jive with some of their passives, but due to the nature of jabs (four discreet hits instead of one large hit) you'll get better returns from Malacath then you would from hoping for crits. The crit burst effect on jabs is a way lower since the crit chance is applied to each of the four hits separately. Where as Malacath boosts the damage of all four hits.

Grimlok_S

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Only build you wouldnt use it on is a stamblade or a stamplar, it’s basically best in slot for everything else. It has basically no drawback if you are running the average ~15% crit that most people do and find a piece of gear that gives anything close to a 25% damage buff, even if nerfed 10% it would still be a good option for most heavy armour builds.

My BG stamplar prefers Malacath. I know it doesn't jive with some of their passives, but due to the nature of jabs (four discreet hits instead of one large hit) you'll get better returns from Malacath then you would from hoping for crits. The crit burst effect on jabs is a way lower since the crit chance is applied to each of the four hits separately. Where as Malacath boosts the damage of all four hits.

Stamplar has so few relevant class passives as it is, what's 1 less?

I liked acuity better last patch, but the extended cooldown and option to go 3H 4M may sway me back to Malacath.

echo2omega

StaticWave wrote: »

There are no cons to malacath other than taking up 1 slot on your build. Assuming an opponent wears 7 impen and has the crit resist cp slottable, their crit resist would sit at 2970, or 46% critical dmg resistance. In order to outperform malacath, you would need at least 50% crit chance and 80% crit damage. That is a lot of crit chance investment for most classes, so it's actually better to just slot on malacath and stack into full weapon/spell dmg/pen.

Malacath needs to be removed from the game, or at least have its damage buff adjusted so that it makes sense to run a crit build.

Here is the thing though.
That player spent resources to get the crit resistance they have. Impen armor traits and slotting a crit resist buff.
Which provide no protection vs Malacath.

So to defend against Malacath they should use a different trait (like reinforced or nirnhined) and/or slot skill to provide additional armor to provide more damage resistance against... damage.
But then that would leave them vulnerable to being critically hit and damaged

So to beat the players who are stacking defence against Malacath I want to stack as much crit chance and crit damage as I can because they are defending against Malacath and not crit hits and damage.

hmmm. Quite a dilemma...
Looks like there is a classic rock paper scissors forming. That's really good for PVP.

Ragnaroek93

I think I'd be fine with that item if it wouldn't increase proc damage to be honest.

divnyi

Vermintide wrote: »

Suggestion: Make Malacath allow crits, but turns off proc sets and effects.

It'd still be busted and OP, but less abusable. It's not like we can just have it removed from the game by this point, once it's there it's there.

So, you wanna me oneshot 30k peeps with my snipeblade?

StaticWave

echo2omega wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

There are no cons to malacath other than taking up 1 slot on your build. Assuming an opponent wears 7 impen and has the crit resist cp slottable, their crit resist would sit at 2970, or 46% critical dmg resistance. In order to outperform malacath, you would need at least 50% crit chance and 80% crit damage. That is a lot of crit chance investment for most classes, so it's actually better to just slot on malacath and stack into full weapon/spell dmg/pen.

Malacath needs to be removed from the game, or at least have its damage buff adjusted so that it makes sense to run a crit build.

Here is the thing though.
That player spent resources to get the crit resistance they have. Impen armor traits and slotting a crit resist buff.
Which provide no protection vs Malacath.

So to defend against Malacath they should use a different trait (like reinforced or nirnhined) and/or slot skill to provide additional armor to provide more damage resistance against... damage.
But then that would leave them vulnerable to being critically hit and damaged

So to beat the players who are stacking defence against Malacath I want to stack as much crit chance and crit damage as I can because they are defending against Malacath and not crit hits and damage.

hmmm. Quite a dilemma...
Looks like there is a classic rock paper scissors forming. That's really good for PVP.

It would be rock paper scissors if crit chance wasn't hard to get. In order to reach 50% crit chance on stam for non nb classes, you would need to slot leviathan, use thief mundus, have major savagery, and be in 5 medium. That is a lot of investment just to be able to reach 50% crit chance. It's even more ridiculous when you factor in people who do run impenetrable traits and crit resist cp slottable on their builds. Compared to a malacath build that can use heavy armor, 2 dmg sets, and a dmg mundus, mala is always the more attractive option.

KhajiitLivesMatter

master_vanargand wrote: »

Malacath's Band of Brutality is essential for PvP game balance.
In the old days, Impenetrable was the king of PvP armor traits.
But there is Malacath's Band of Brutality now.
Which throws away critical damage and increases damage by 25%.

So this is rock-paper-scissors.
Impenetrable is strong against critical build, but weak against Malacath build.
This is a great benefit that expand the possibilities for other armor traits in PvP.

It also has a negative effect, but it's not the fault of Malacath's Band of Brutality.
I's just that the proc damage sets are too strong.
Even in PvE, Relequen in proc damage sets is the king of DPS sets.

From this it is clear that the proc damage sets need to be nerfed.

impen is trash since it got nerfed so everything u wrote isnt the truth basicly

KhajiitLivesMatter

olsborg wrote: »

The biggest drawback of malacath is that it requires a slot to use. Sadly its that strong. Make it not buff proccs and make it so you cant crit heal either.

yea but if u disable crit heal the 25% dmg bonus also HAS to be 25% healing bonus!

TheBonesXXX

StaticWave wrote: »

echo2omega wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

There are no cons to malacath other than taking up 1 slot on your build. Assuming an opponent wears 7 impen and has the crit resist cp slottable, their crit resist would sit at 2970, or 46% critical dmg resistance. In order to outperform malacath, you would need at least 50% crit chance and 80% crit damage. That is a lot of crit chance investment for most classes, so it's actually better to just slot on malacath and stack into full weapon/spell dmg/pen.

Malacath needs to be removed from the game, or at least have its damage buff adjusted so that it makes sense to run a crit build.

Here is the thing though.
That player spent resources to get the crit resistance they have. Impen armor traits and slotting a crit resist buff.
Which provide no protection vs Malacath.

So to defend against Malacath they should use a different trait (like reinforced or nirnhined) and/or slot skill to provide additional armor to provide more damage resistance against... damage.
But then that would leave them vulnerable to being critically hit and damaged

So to beat the players who are stacking defence against Malacath I want to stack as much crit chance and crit damage as I can because they are defending against Malacath and not crit hits and damage.

hmmm. Quite a dilemma...
Looks like there is a classic rock paper scissors forming. That's really good for PVP.

It would be rock paper scissors if crit chance wasn't hard to get. In order to reach 50% crit chance on stam for non nb classes, you would need to slot leviathan, use thief mundus, have major savagery, and be in 5 medium. That is a lot of investment just to be able to reach 50% crit chance. It's even more ridiculous when you factor in people who do run impenetrable traits and crit resist cp slottable on their builds. Compared to a malacath build that can use heavy armor, 2 dmg sets, and a dmg mundus, mala is always the more attractive option.

Catcro's say hello.

Seraphayel

Udrath wrote: »

It should be the same percentage as major berserk. 10% increased damage. They fixed all major and minor debuffs, and kept malacath behind a pay wall. Once the new chapter is out they’ll nerf it.

I pretty much expect this to be one outcome of the no proc test - they will not leave Malacath untouched and bring it back in U30 for Cyrodiil. I expect a nerf to 15% increased damage instead of 25%.

Zer0_CooL

Pros: You have it

Cons: You dont have it