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Honest opinion: NB cloak needs a redesign (that apply to whole class)
Raegwyr
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NB cloak is this kind of skill that polarize the community and at the same time remain buggy mess for almost every patch. While invisibility is nice, a lot of ppl can see that this is something that holds nb class back as ZOS clearly don't know how to build around that. My proposition for the skill is to redesign it to give nb more defensive power while remaining unique:
1st morph: x s time, you don't take any damage from dots on you (they are still running, just don't deal damage) and gain minor expedition. To be sure that this won't be too op it moght be a good idea to modify the cost of skill each time after a player use (ball of lightning treatment).
2nd morph: burst heal, that also grants minor vitality for x seconds. Something requested by many nbs (mostly mag ones) that will be in line with previous blade identity (a lot of nb skills is designed to be used while in close combat, lack of good healing tho makes that playstyle really hard to perform). Heal should scale from your max magicka OR should have better hp scaling (you cant say this option is too op while we have skills like arctic blast in game for such a long time.
1st morph promote quick fights (jump in with dot protection, burst your enemy down fast or lose your resources if you fight too long with this option up). 2nd morph resolves some of bar space problems for magnb and allows magnb to play more aggressive.
Removing invis from cloak would be also a good way to rebalance nb offensive toolkit by removing cast times and travel time of more burst skills like ulti or bow (i believe we have this kind of weakness attached to them because of invis). Nb would still be more elusive to play then other classes because of shade defense mechanic, current cloak is just not a good defensive or offensive ability (unless you call invisibility that can be break from 20m by sneak detection a good ability).
But what about ppl who likes the invisibility in nb toolkit? Simple solution: move it to shadow ultimate. Consuming darkness is already one of the weakest ulti in game, not usable in both pve and pvp (despite some forum ppl stating it is powerful af even when nobody is using it). Why not changing the morphs so one is granting the player a 20s invis that is unbreakable unless the player attack the enemy (so no detection, just more powerful invis in form of an ult)? Roleplayers are happy because they can still use invis in overland, pve players are okay with this as none of them was using cloak/consuming in dungeons or trials, pvp should be happy too as current cloak is not working at all and basically holding the whole class back. The only ppl that might be unhappy are gankers that cannot use incap with it.
This is only my idea as I think current cloak is problematic and takes the ower from the class while not providing the functionality it should provide.
What is your opinion (or maybe anyone have a better idea for that problem)?
Edited by Raegwyr on March 22, 2021 8:46AM 1st morph: x s time, you don't take any damage from dots on you (they are still running, just don't deal damage) and gain minor expedition. To be sure that this won't be too op it moght be a good idea to modify the cost of skill each time after a player use (ball of lightning treatment).
2nd morph: burst heal, that also grants minor vitality for x seconds. Something requested by many nbs (mostly mag ones) that will be in line with previous blade identity (a lot of nb skills is designed to be used while in close combat, lack of good healing tho makes that playstyle really hard to perform). Heal should scale from your max magicka OR should have better hp scaling (you cant say this option is too op while we have skills like arctic blast in game for such a long time.
1st morph promote quick fights (jump in with dot protection, burst your enemy down fast or lose your resources if you fight too long with this option up). 2nd morph resolves some of bar space problems for magnb and allows magnb to play more aggressive.
Removing invis from cloak would be also a good way to rebalance nb offensive toolkit by removing cast times and travel time of more burst skills like ulti or bow (i believe we have this kind of weakness attached to them because of invis). Nb would still be more elusive to play then other classes because of shade defense mechanic, current cloak is just not a good defensive or offensive ability (unless you call invisibility that can be break from 20m by sneak detection a good ability).
But what about ppl who likes the invisibility in nb toolkit? Simple solution: move it to shadow ultimate. Consuming darkness is already one of the weakest ulti in game, not usable in both pve and pvp (despite some forum ppl stating it is powerful af even when nobody is using it). Why not changing the morphs so one is granting the player a 20s invis that is unbreakable unless the player attack the enemy (so no detection, just more powerful invis in form of an ult)? Roleplayers are happy because they can still use invis in overland, pve players are okay with this as none of them was using cloak/consuming in dungeons or trials, pvp should be happy too as current cloak is not working at all and basically holding the whole class back. The only ppl that might be unhappy are gankers that cannot use incap with it.
This is only my idea as I think current cloak is problematic and takes the ower from the class while not providing the functionality it should provide.
What is your opinion (or maybe anyone have a better idea for that problem)?
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Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭Errr.... ? The skill's fine, just buggy. Fix the bugs, don't kill the last vestiges of class identity. What's next - getting rid of corpse stuff necros rely on, flame effects from Dks, all that animal crap (you know, shalks, bear, bird) from the warden...
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Raegwyr✭✭✭✭Errr.... ? The skill's fine, just buggy. Fix the bugs, don't kill the last vestiges of class identity. What's next - getting rid of corpse stuff necros rely on, flame effects from Dks, all that animal crap (you know, shalks, bear, bird) from the warden...
Everything what you described increase class strength while nb is not getting buffs which it needs (mainly talking about magnb pvp) because zos don't know how to buff the class without forum screaming that nb is too op with no cast time on ult or bow skill hitting in more then 10% cases.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Respectfully, nightblade offers a very interesting overland style. The ability to disappear and pass by most enemies without being detected is incredibly valuable, and doesn't require things like vampirism. While it can be approached with potions, so too is
Self healing,
Major buffs,
Movement speed increases,
Resource sustain
And yet we highly value additional sources of the above for giving us variety of choice in our approach.
TL;DR if we remove nightblade's invisibility, it may be prudent to make a universal skill to fill the niche that its removal would erode.Edited by DocFrost72 on March 22, 2021 4:28PM1 -
Sneakers✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »The skill works fine the way it is. No changes needed.
Think what OP and maybe other is referring to is the fact that latency/desynchs effect stealth in this way:
Player A stealths - > player A stealthed on his screen -> player A uses resources to stealth
Player B does not yet see player A stealthed and hits player A with dot/dd/aoe
Player A gets de stealthed because player A could hit him while he was stealthed on his screen but not on player B screen
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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But... what would be the point of a NB then ? I mean, with no invisibility ?DocFrost72 wrote: »
TL;DR if we remove nightblade's invisibility, it may be prudent to make a universal skill to fill the niche that its removal would erode.
Already other classes can do stuff better, and (arguably), with the addition of Vamp's sprint invisibility (with easy access to invisibility), other classes can do same stuff that NB can, while they perform better in other areas.
Over the time, other world / guild / weapon skills were altered, to the point that those are better than NB class toolkit. A lot of NBs use those, instead of their own class toolkit. NB's cloak is the only thing left that makes Nightblade... a Nightblade.1 -
Faded✭✭✭✭✭No.
People choose Nightblade to play nightblade: a stealthy illusionist who can and may assassinate people. Don't ask for a class identity to be cratered because you think it will make it easier for the devs to balance their game.7 -
Raegwyr✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
But... what would be the point of a NB then ? I mean, with no invisibility ?DocFrost72 wrote: »
TL;DR if we remove nightblade's invisibility, it may be prudent to make a universal skill to fill the niche that its removal would erode.
Already other classes can do stuff better, and (arguably), with the addition of Vamp's sprint invisibility (with easy access to invisibility), other classes can do same stuff that NB can, while they perform better in other areas.
Over the time, other world / guild / weapon skills were altered, to the point that those are better than NB class toolkit. A lot of NBs use those, instead of their own class toolkit. NB's cloak is the only thing left that makes Nightblade... a Nightblade.
Arguably Nb lost most of its unique abilities because ppl thought its toolkit was too strong with them and invis.
Current state of cloak is that invis can break by dots, aoe, pots, light attacks and even stealth detection.
What's the point of uniques when it is weak af and hold class from getting buffs and regaining some of the old feeling?0 -
Doczy✭✭✭lets be realistic
shadowy disguise : 5 seconds cooldown expensive cost /purge all debuffs+invisibility /and you can run and roll dodge
dark cloak : max stat scale /%10 damage reduction +purge0
