Too many fake tanks / fake healers!

moo_2021

Cozzy1991 wrote: »

Fake damage dealers are more common than fake tanks! We don’t want to sit in a random normal for 50 minuets while the muppets you get assigned to stand in big pink circles and say “MO hEAl oR taNk gG”

Every newbie DDs are fake to you when you get good enough! I don't want to join as DD myself because I'd do exactly just that.

I noticed though there have been a lot of newbies in RND recently, and my value as a tank and secondary healer becomes really crucial.

Elendir2am

Nogawd wrote: »

Alpharos7 wrote: »

It's impossible to DPS when the tank is not protecting you and the healer isn't sustaining you.

Speak for yourself.

My DPS drop, if I need block heavy attack and low CP DDs need to run around, if boss go after them. It is distinctive blow to group DPS in comparison to when tank hold boss at one place and pull al aggro for AoE.
I would like to know, how you don’t drop DPS at all (as your reaction indicate) in cause when for example Valkyn Skoria go heavy slash you.

Cozzy1991 wrote: »

I fake tank daily. There’s too many fake dd’s. I don’t have 40 minuets to waste clearing a random normal. I’d rather jump on my dps, queue as a tank and solo the dungeon and be rid of slow and lazy people. If it’s a dungeon that requires a hard taunt, I’ll slot inner fire. If you’re holding aggro of a dungeon boss and still doing 87% of the damage to it, your team is trash.

If you slot inner fire, you are not fake tank in my book. Normal dungeons mobs can be killed faster, than any CC work. Holding boss so they doesn’t chase DDs is then only important part of tanking there.

Sanguinor2

Elendir2am wrote: »

My DPS drop, if I need block heavy attack and low CP DDs need to run around, if boss go after them. It is distinctive blow to group DPS in comparison to when tank hold boss at one place and pull al aggro for AoE.
I would like to know, how you don’t drop DPS at all (as your reaction indicate) in cause when for example Valkyn Skoria go heavy slash you.

It certainly is theoretically possible to drop little to no dps when a boss focuses you as a dd. For example one can roll cancel an instant cast spammable and loose no gcd. If someone is actually doing it perfectly in content everytime is another matter entirely.

Elendir2am

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

It certainly is theoretically possible to drop little to no dps when a boss focuses you as a dd. For example one can roll cancel an instant cast spammable and loose no gcd. If someone is actually doing it perfectly in content everytime is another matter entirely.

You need block heavy attack to keep boss in crushing elemental walls. If you dodge-roll, they will hardly stay in.

Sanguinor2

Elendir2am wrote: »

You need block heavy attack to keep boss in crushing elemental walls. If you dodge-roll, they will hardly stay in.

Depends on the boss really. Some bosses dont move that fast compared to others where it is no problem. And if the boss is right in the middle of your wall of elements you can dodgeroll forward or backward and even if he follows instantly he will still be in it, if you roll through a boss it doesnt move possibilities are there.
You can also just blockcast an instant cast spammable and only loose 1 light attack.

Jusey1

El_Borracho wrote: »

As a DD, fake tanks are only a problem when they can not hold aggro and/or get killed by the boss.

I agree with this, partial because on my main I do queue up normal dungeons as a tank without having a full committed tank build (I use a solo build and can solo most dungeons, just some aren't fun to solo due to mechanics. The recently new Red Bastion one for example. I solo'd it once and never again because the first boss of that dungeon made that experience so awful... Second boss was fun to solo though).

Fizzyapple

Once it took me longer to get through March of Sacrifices with a PUG than it took me to solo it because of a fake tank AND a fake healer. I'm not sure why ZOS doesn't just do away PUGs all together. Nobody likes them and nobody makes friends of the people they meet in a PUG. What is the purpose of them? I think I can count on one hand the number of times someone respond to my hello at the beginning of a PUG. Nobody in my guilds act like PUG people. Are they even real? Are they troll bots? Some don't seem very human. Morlocks?

PUG people

p00tx

If you absolutely need a healer to get through a dlc dungeon, I don't think you have any business random queueing for it. Find a group of friends who understand that you're still learning and need some added support, and will look after you when you need it. Random players don't owe you anything and it isn't their responsibility to take care of you. There are maybe 2-3 dungeons tops in this entire game that you 'need' healers for, and that's only the hardmodes. The rest can be gotten through quickly and easily with dps and tanks slotting self heals. I'm a healer main who flat out refuses to queue on an actual healer because it's absolutely painful and wretched spending an hour trudging through a dungeon that should only take 10-15 minutes because underqualified dps decided to take a walk on the wild side and hit a vet DLC in the queue, or a PvPer is there in their 2h/SnB build trying to get a quick carry for some PvP gear. Nopenopenopenope. I'll queue as a healer while on a dps, slot one burst heal for the inevitable squishy in the group, usually do 60-80% of the group's dps alone, and call it a day.

Yas78

I still fail to understand why the system punishes those who plays by the rules and queue appropriately to their classes/playstyles, and rewards those who try to squeeze through past the rules at the expence of honest players. This is absolutely discouraging to see that rulebreaker benefit more by abusing the system. And it happens every single day, multiple times per day. I think I will reconsider buying anything from this company until this problem is addressed.

azjuwelz

On my dps I can kite or even tank a boss if needed on any dungeon on normal, and I always have an emergency heal of some kind slotted.

I learned while leveling my tank and healer that I could not make up for low dps if I fully specced for the role, and even if I tried to help with damage it was painful and took forever. Therefore, I only do randoms on my dps. (But I still queue as dps. I help a lot of low levels that way).

Mojmir

But i am healing, with ring of pale order

M0ntie

I think a solution to this would be an option in dungeon finder to AGREE to run with 4 dps. This would get the people who are happy to go with this combination through faster - the queue for dps is always much slower.

RaikaNA

Alpharos7 wrote: »

Seriously, anyone else noticing a lot of fake tanks / healers? It is making the game unplayable! I was just on The Cauldron, and we had a 1600cp ‘healing’. In reality they were stamina DPS and they doomed the whole group, as the tank couldn’t stay alive and there was no-one providing support for the DPS.

Please, if you are too impatient for the group finder, join a guild. Don’t ruin other people’s enjoyment!

Why didn't you ask your guild to do the Cauldron instead of pugging it? Do you have a healer or a tank? Did you offer the group to become the healer instead of being a dd? Many who complain about people fake tanking or healing doesn't have a tank or a healer of their own because it's not fun not killing stuff.

I fake tank all the time... but I only do it for normal dungeons...

duagloth

Easy solution. Give me the crystals for soloing the dungeon.

JanTanhide

M0ntie wrote: »

I think a solution to this would be an option in dungeon finder to AGREE to run with 4 dps. This would get the people who are happy to go with this combination through faster - the queue for dps is always much slower.

That is a great idea!

JanTanhide

Fizzyapple wrote: »

Once it took me longer to get through March of Sacrifices with a PUG than it took me to solo it because of a fake tank AND a fake healer. I'm not sure why ZOS doesn't just do away PUGs all together. Nobody likes them and nobody makes friends of the people they meet in a PUG. What is the purpose of them? I think I can count on one hand the number of times someone respond to my hello at the beginning of a PUG. Nobody in my guilds act like PUG people. Are they even real? Are they troll bots? Some don't seem very human. Morlocks?

PUG people

Erg, I know that creature! LOL!

GarfieId

Fake tanks should generally be avoided for vet DLC.

As for healers, I mean when I pug dungeons I always queue as a healer (in saying that my brother tanks, he can do so without a healer) and there's never any issues, I mean most of the vet DLC dungeon HMs you don't even need a healer (there are exceptions). Should also mention he runs support sets (yolna + olorime + symphony) granted probably underpenning but DPS is so high in this game it doesn't matter.

The way I see it is if the enemies die fast enough there's no need for a healer. But tanks eh, it's down to how good that player is.

seldomseenkd

I don't mind fake/tank healers as long as they slot a taunt/heal and don't tie up other group members needing to be ressed. Apart from that they can build as aggressively as they want.

Some fake tanks/healers are entirely useless though and should not be tolerated.

newtinmpls

Elendir2am wrote: »

Problems of fake tanks and fake healers originate in fact, that playing as tank are soooooooo boooooring.

This just weirds me out - the idea of a tank being "boring" boggles my mind.

Taunt, lockdown, pull in the distant archers/trouble is just the beginning. If you are "not doing much" as a tank, then likely you aren't a very skilled tank.

Oh and to the problem of "fake tank/healer" it's really simple. People put up with them. If every "fake" tank or healer was vote-kicked after the first boss, people would stop doing it.

Molydeus

newtinmpls wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

Problems of fake tanks and fake healers originate in fact, that playing as tank are soooooooo boooooring.

Oh and to the problem of "fake tank/healer" it's really simple. People put up with them. If every "fake" tank or healer was vote-kicked after the first boss, people would stop doing it.

I agree, the problem though is that most people don't want to wait around for a replacement so they just put up with it.

Dem_kitkats1

GarfieId wrote: »

Fake tanks should generally be avoided for vet DLC.

As for healers, I mean when I pug dungeons I always queue as a healer (in saying that my brother tanks, he can do so without a healer) and there's never any issues, I mean most of the vet DLC dungeon HMs you don't even need a healer (there are exceptions). Should also mention he runs support sets (yolna + olorime + symphony) granted probably underpenning but DPS is so high in this game it doesn't matter.

The way I see it is if the enemies die fast enough there's no need for a healer. But tanks eh, it's down to how good that player is.

^ This
I would say that it's the same way for tanks as well, until you get to Vet DLC dungeons. Most DPS can burst down enemies by the time Tanks can even get there. Especially, for the majority doing random normals.

There is also a difference between being appreciated and being actually needed. If support roles were actually needed to complete most content there would be less people fake queuing to begin with.

newtinmpls

newtinmpls wrote: »

Oh and to the problem of "fake tank/healer" it's really simple. People put up with them. If every "fake" tank or healer was vote-kicked after the first boss, people would stop doing it.

@Molydeus said:
I agree, the problem though is that most people don't want to wait around for a replacement so they just put up with it.

To which I reply:
Well, every time anyone "just puts up with it" they make it likely to keep happening again.

.edited to correctly attribute quote
.

Elendir2am

@newtinmpls
You should be more careful with way, you edit quotes.

post number 50:
You took sentence out of context. Playing ESO, all content, with tank is boring. Dungeons, trials, dragons, harrowstorms are fun for tanks (but it is only small portion of content). Solo content, not so much. This problem was solved with "Armory" fortunately.
So, abstain from condemning my playing tank for the next time, when you obviously don't know it at all.

post number 53:
You quote Molydeus, not me.

Amottica

p00tx wrote: »

If you absolutely need a healer to get through a dlc dungeon, I don't think you have any business random queueing for it. Find a group of friends who understand that you're still learning and need some added support, and will look after you when you need it. Random players don't owe you anything and it isn't their responsibility to take care of you. There are maybe 2-3 dungeons tops in this entire game that you 'need' healers for, and that's only the hardmodes. The rest can be gotten through quickly and easily with dps and tanks slotting self heals. I'm a healer main who flat out refuses to queue on an actual healer because it's absolutely painful and wretched spending an hour trudging through a dungeon that should only take 10-15 minutes because underqualified dps decided to take a walk on the wild side and hit a vet DLC in the queue, or a PvPer is there in their 2h/SnB build trying to get a quick carry for some PvP gear. Nopenopenopenope. I'll queue as a healer while on a dps, slot one burst heal for the inevitable squishy in the group, usually do 60-80% of the group's dps alone, and call it a day.

Technically, those random players do have a responsibility to perform the role they chose to queue for. However, there is nothing other than vote kicking them to persuade players to do their job.

I do agree that it is best to form one's own group as that group is likely significantly better than the GF group would be.

newtinmpls

Warning - long post in an attempt to clarify understanding!

First, Hello @Elendir2am I did go back and re-attribute the comment in post 53, thanks for pointing that out!

This is post #13 re-quoted:

AyaDark wrote: »

In my opinion DD who needs support to his DPS is - just a Fake DD by the way.

Do damage by your own. It is your task - you are DD by the way.

Elendir2am wrote: »

You don't understand what OP means by word “support”.
Tank and Healer are marked as support roles by doing tank stuff and healer stuff. And you are wrong, both, tank and healer, carry buffs normally so DDs can do more dmg. These buffs have more impact on DDs with high DPS then on other cause.

Problems of fake tanks and fake healers originate in fact, that playing as tank are soooooooo boooooring. Healer role is a little better. ZOS don’t do anything with it unfortunately. Last update screwed blocking (what is problem of trials than dungeons) and I feel like ZOS want to make life of tanks at ESO as boring as possible.

This post #50 where I quoted part of the above post and replied to it:

Elendir2am wrote: »

Problems of fake tanks and fake healers originate in fact, that playing as tank are soooooooo boooooring.

newtinmpls wrote: »

This just weirds me out - the idea of a tank being "boring" boggles my mind.

Taunt, lockdown, pull in the distant archers/trouble is just the beginning. If you are "not doing much" as a tank, then likely you aren't a very skilled tank.

In post #54 @Elendir2am commented:

post number 50:
You took sentence out of context. Playing ESO, all content, with tank is boring. Dungeons, trials, dragons, harrowstorms are fun for tanks (but it is only small portion of content). Solo content, not so much. This problem was solved with "Armory" fortunately.

My reply: (if anyone made it this far) <g>

Looking at the actual post by @Elendir2am I am just not seeing a discussion of overland.

There is no reference to overland, or "all content" just the comments about tank and healer roles.

I don't use the armory station (it just doesn't fit in my brain) but luckily there are addons that allow me to switch outfits. That along with overland generally being easier than Undaunted Dungeons, means that a collection of proc sets will allow my "tanks" to have a nice time with most overland content. Yes, sometimes things take a bit longer, but not so much.

As for tanking and healing in dungeons and "signing up for that role", I like doing randoms, and I also think that doing high level DPS is harder (for me, anyway) than being a decent tank or healer. DPS is just straight mathematical calculations to do lots of damage and as close to BiS as you can get. I'm not good at that - and playing the setups that my kind friends help me to create is kind of boring. Kill kill kill, everything dies.

Tanking and healing are more about positioning, layering skills, and calculating what is likely to happen next and how to prep for it (gaining ulti, placing heals, pulling adds). Especially in a PuG group where I have to watch whats going on and react as best I may.

For all of my characters, they have at least

-one "overland" set
-one "as high as I can sort out their DPS" for slightly harder content and then

either a healer (magicka character) or a tank (stamina character) setup.

On exactly one high elf sorc, Hisa Fae Camire, she was just not healer material, so she is set up as a magicka tank (and I still struggle with her)

On exactly one Breton (the infamous pirate Domino Fae who is a Magika Necro) I literally have 5 setups: Overland, Thieving, Tanking, Healing and "strictly legal" [have to remember to use this anywhere near towns - they don't seem to like a LOT of what she does]. Oddly, she is not nearly as hard to play tanking as Hisa (no idea - but likely to do with their personalities).

And, @Elendir2am if Armory made the game better for you, I'm glad.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

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