The one shot mechanic system has to go

Vanya

The one shot mechanic is plague in MMO coming from a veteran that has been playing older games and did participated in raids,trials,etc whatever you wish to call it is utterly RNG - Random generated cheap implementation that subsequently causes nothing more but a frustration and absurdness,needless truly.

I played through Vateshran hollows today which is I must admit quite tough for something that is supposed to be solo Arena, however for anything else being hit by millions of damage and shot that no build can take that no skill is relevant or healer nor tank is just ludicrous or having no option at all. These details do matter, Regardless if one is casual,PVP oriented,Hardcore dungeon clearer, it does not matter of one's playsystle. One hit is the worst of the worst that is on going process since basically dawn of MMO's.

I also understand the motive,maybe so players are more cautions and "forced" to work together but there is clear difference between punched hard and complex way to beat a boss than being hit by unavoidable Area of Effect, direct hit or some lazy way that players have no chance to defened, its much more worse combined with performance issues.

I therefore vote for one shot system to be eradicated entirely from Elder Scrolls Online

Sincerely
Limbstarie

AyaDark

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

amm7sb14_ESO

I too hate the one-shot mechanic. I never understood what the point of health is if damage taken just scales to how much health you have.

furiouslog

One shots are a big part of forcing players to pay attention to the mechanics. I actually like that they are in there, as long as there is a way to mitigate them.

But yeah, if the game is not working properly (skills not firing, desyncs, etc), they are frustrating. So many wipes on vSCP hard mode because the poison cone AOE did not match what was on the floor.

trackdemon5512

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

@Vanya

The one shots in ESO can mainly be attributed to power creep and previous CP system. ZOS had to figure a way to challenge the OP players with insane stats while at the same time being able to allow lower caliber players to enjoy. Hence we got one-shots in a lot of content.

With the changes to CP and push by ZOS for more specialization towards addressing content we should see a lot less One-Shots as players will be expected to restructure their CP for the situation.

That said, some one-shots should remain just as a way to keep players on their toes and pay attention to mechanics instead of straight boring burn burn burn.

AyaDark

furiouslog wrote: »

One shots are a big part of forcing players to pay attention to the mechanics. I actually like that they are in there, as long as there is a way to mitigate them.

But yeah, if the game is not working properly (skills not firing, desyncs, etc), they are frustrating. So many wipes on vSCP hard mode because the poison cone AOE did not match what was on the floor.

It is really true about it, but ...:
https://youtu.be/-Wss64mISuI

But yes i hate when ping and server lags too.

It is real problem.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

NOPE!!! Not sure I can say it much better, but I will rant anyway.

One shots and invulnerable phases are about the only way to force mechanics on the player. Invulnerable phases are just frustrating IMO, I much prefer the possibility of a one shot.

Virtually every one shot mechanic in this game boils down to Don't Stand in Stupid or Interrupt the guy channeling. All of them are confined to Vet Content, which nobody needs to turn on.

We are already at the point where Vet content has been dumbed down for the masses. The two new Vet Dungeons, even on hard mode are joke. Vet Vateshran was equally and laughably easy on release. The difficulty of new vet content needs turned up, not the other way around. Nothing requires anyone to do vet, so no reason it shouldn't be a challenge.

Anyone remember VMA or VMOL at release? That is where we need to get back to IMO. Real difficulty, real progression.

jaws343

I think the only problem with One Shot mechanics is when the only threat of a dungeon is one shots. Scalecaller is a cakewalk outside of the one shot mechanics. It's why you don't need a healer for it. Vateshran Hollows is more healing intensive than Scalecaller. That is poor group dungeon design imo. And it is being seen in more and more dungeons. I do think the last handful of Dungeon DLCs has scaled that back a bit.

Shantu

I don't mind one shots, but what I always considered ludicrous is dying from a 500+k hit when I'm running around with about 20k health. I mean...just how dead does that make me? It's like having enough nuclear weapons in your arsenal to blow the earth up 25 times...as if once wasn't enough.

furiouslog

Shantu wrote: »

I don't mind one shots, but what I always considered ludicrous is dying from a 500+k hit when I'm running around with about 20k health. I mean...just how dead does that make me? It's like having enough nuclear weapons in your arsenal to blow the earth up 25 times...as if once wasn't enough.

I'm confident that we all agree that nuking the site from orbit is the only way to be sure.

Mojmir

AyaDark wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

One shots are a big part of forcing players to pay attention to the mechanics. I actually like that they are in there, as long as there is a way to mitigate them.

But yeah, if the game is not working properly (skills not firing, desyncs, etc), they are frustrating. So many wipes on vSCP hard mode because the poison cone AOE did not match what was on the floor.

It is really true about it, but ...:
https://youtu.be/-Wss64mISuI

But yes i hate when ping and server lags too.

It is real problem.

This. Since the update, weps not firing/block not working/400 ping in a solo instance. Not my end either, is this how zo$ adds difficulty?

emilyhyoyeon

I actually like having some one shot mechanics.
Also idk if people forget, but a tank missing a block or dodgeroll in endgame content is a one shot, so that's on top of every other non boss HA mechanic. Are boss heavies in endgame content being one shots also considered something that should go? /gen not rhetorical

Fennwitty

As a main tank, I think there's a huge difference to draw between "probable one-shot" vs. "guaranteed one-shot."

I generally have no problem with "probable one-shot" mechanics. Players are strongly encouraged to dodge roll, interrupt etc.

I dislike "guaranteed one-shot" mechanics though for two reasons:

1. Lag can screw the players over even when they're fully ready. Getting lag at the end of Bloodroot Forge trying to dodge roll repeatedly 3 mobs? Yikes. EDIT: To clarify I'm not saying it's coded to guarantee death, I just can't think of another example right now.

2. "Guaranteed" anything limits playstyles. There's only one right response -- dodge roll/move or get whatever mechanic completed. Nothing else is 'correct'.

So in practice I'd like to see more "probable" than "guaranteed." If you're hit by a "probable" as a DPS that's almost certainly gonna kill you. If you're caught not blocking as a tank or already low on HP, it's probably gonna kill you.

But when it's not a guarantee, the group can respond differently. Maybe the healer throws up pre-emptive damage shields, and the tank uses a defensive ultimate to absorb the damage. Maybe the DPS slot a Purge or burst heal to get the tank back to full after taking a massive hit.

When it's dodge roll or nothing, there's ... only one possibility.

Kartalin

If you're having trouble with healing in Vateshran try using the Ring of the Pale Order.

Tommy_The_Gun

I agree with OP

Even Dark Souls, Demon Souls, Bloodborne all combined are more fair than One-Shot mechanics.


To me, it simply looks like developers wanted to make a challenge harder, but they did not know how...

Netheniel

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

To me, it simply looks like developers wanted to make a challenge harder, but they did not know how...

I don't think it's that the developers don't know how. When you sit down and look at the AI and combat systems in ESO, they're very linear. There's no freedom or tactics. It's just a slapping match between you and the opponent. There's only so much you can do with such a system, and one shots are the easiest option they have to force a player to disengage from the slap fest and do something different.

It is of course not the only way, but ZoS hasn't really been willing to leave their comfort zone to explore creative new ideas. I think that is the main reason for lack of good combat and challenges. When you look at an MMO like GW2, those developers are always coming out with crazy creative ideas. That game is like an assortment of mini-games built into one larger game. IMO that's what the developers at ZoS need to consider. They need to get out of their comfort zones and take a few risks by trying something different. Enhance their combat systems to include more external influences and reward tactical play over reflexes and raw DPS rotations.

Just watch the cinematic trailers. Isn't that the ESO universe you want to live in? Have your DPS nightblade sneak up to cult and interrupt the incantation to save your teammate (randomly picked), then try to escape together through Oblivion with your mates. Fight your way up a tower to destroy the sigil stone to bring you back to Tamriel, all the while you're hounded by oblivion monsters, mages, and warriors. With Mehrunes throwing debuffs and extra challenges as you try to escape. No need for a major boss fight. Maybe throw some mini-boss fights in there as you're being chased to spice things up, but the focus of the dungeon is on the pressure of everything coming down on you all at once. Endless waves of challenging enemies chasing you, spawning in left and right. Trapped rooms you need to fight your way out of and random puzzles to solve. Exciting, sweaty, difficult moments with none of that one-shot stuff.

driosketch

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

Is this true currently? I remember one-shots in DLC dungeons on normal like CoS and MK.

redspecter23

driosketch wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

Is this true currently? I remember one-shots in DLC dungeons on normal like CoS and MK.

I just did a March of Sacrifices on normal and it has one shots from some bosses, the power bash on the first trio boss specifically. It is telegraphed fairly well so there is that. Does that boss on normal need to one shot? Probably not, but on vet I think it's fine.

jaws343

driosketch wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

Is this true currently? I remember one-shots in DLC dungeons on normal like CoS and MK.

A lot of DLC normal dungeons have one shots.

In Normal, the Minotaur adds in Falkreath will one shot you, also the final boss in Bloodroot, and Velidreth has a one shot if you mess up her execute mechanic in Cradle.

umagon

I find the one shot mechanics unnecessary, if the encounter is properly designed then no portion of the mechanics can be ignored or skipped. One shot mechanics is something developers ultimately do in order force the player(s) to resolve the problem “How do I/we complete the content?” by following the how the developer would solve the issue in the developer’s mind.

It’s like a jigsaw puzzle but the player can’t put the pieces together in the order they strategize, the player is forced to use the same solution order that the developer would use. These types mechanics do not encourage players to be a creative in their approach to the problem “How do I/we complete the content?” as there is only one set path.

There are many different ways to increase the complexity of the encounter without forcing single path options on the player that result in instant failure if not executed perfectly. Failure should occur when there are a series of mistakes made by the player in rapid succession during the encounter. There should be ways to recover if one mistake is made sporadically. Encounters should have difficulty but there should be greater flexibility on the approach that can be used to complete them.

NoSoup

Vanya wrote: »

The one shot mechanic is plague in MMO coming from a veteran that has been playing older games and did participated in raids,trials,etc whatever you wish to call it is utterly RNG - Random generated cheap implementation that subsequently causes nothing more but a frustration and absurdness,needless truly.

I played through Vateshran hollows today which is I must admit quite tough for something that is supposed to be solo Arena, however for anything else being hit by millions of damage and shot that no build can take that no skill is relevant or healer nor tank is just ludicrous or having no option at all. These details do matter, Regardless if one is casual,PVP oriented,Hardcore dungeon clearer, it does not matter of one's playsystle. One hit is the worst of the worst that is on going process since basically dawn of MMO's.

I also understand the motive,maybe so players are more cautions and "forced" to work together but there is clear difference between punched hard and complex way to beat a boss than being hit by unavoidable Area of Effect, direct hit or some lazy way that players have no chance to defened, its much more worse combined with performance issues.

I therefore vote for one shot system to be eradicated entirely from Elder Scrolls Online

Sincerely
Limbstarie

So Happy I got all perfected pieces into my scrapbook before CP2.0......

Oreyn_Bearclaw

driosketch wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

Is this true currently? I remember one-shots in DLC dungeons on normal like CoS and MK.

I think this is true to a squishy tank if they dont block something that needs blocked, but that is sort of a different issue. I dont think their are any true one shots to the DPS or Healers, assuming the tank has aggro.

I have tanked just about every DLC on normal with a basically glass cannon DPS that slots a taunt. There are only a handful of fights that you really need to watch out for the bosses attacks. None of these should be an issue to the DPS or healers.

SeaGtGruff

AyaDark wrote: »

No one shot on normals.

My experience is that "one shot" is really a matter of situation, character stats, and to a certain extent personal opinion. For instance, I've been playing a lot of TES:Arena for the last year or two, and I frequently get one-shot by spell-casting enemies who kill me while my back is turned, completely out of the blue, with no chance to even see what it was-- a mage? spellsword? wraith? homonculus? who knows? Not ESO, I know, but the OP mentioned MMOs in general, and a one-shot is a one-shot.

But I suppose the specific context here is where a dungeon boss one-shots the player(s) with some nearly-impossible attack. Except, if it were truly impossible, then no one would ever be able to survive it and complete the dungeon. So, again, it seems to somewhat be a matter of personal opinion based on your character's stats and perhaps the specific situation-- flanked by the boss, not flanked, blocking, not blocking, dodging, not dodging, etc.

I would agree that attacks which seem specifically designed to wipe the entire party seem like a cheap way to make the boss seem more "challenging"-- but presumably there must be a way to survive or prevent or mitigate such attacks, otherwise the whole dungeon would be kind of pointless. ("Play our new super-hard dungeon and face off against the Impossible Boss! He's guaranteed to wipe your entire group in an instant, preventing you from completing the dungeon! Tell your friends, because they're sure to want to get wiped by the Impossible Boss! It's the most fun you'll ever have being prevented from completing a dungeon!" Yeah, that would never fly.)

FlopsyPrince

AyaDark wrote: »

Nope

If you are not veteran - go normals. No one shot on normals.

As i do not go normals, because i am veteran.

At least one of the DLC regulars was one-shotting my pet sorc when I used to do random normal dungeons.

I stopped doing those primarily for that very reason.

I am sure I didn't have the right gear/food then, but it was very annoying even so. It also encourages me to stay at the fringes on things like Harrowstorms. Dying multiple times there is common, even if I am now geared and food buffed much better.

bmnoble

Not completely opposed to them just wish they gave you a bit more time to react to them, to take into account people with worse connections where an instant reaction to something can vary between group members, especially when your client is not showing you the same stuff as the rest of the group.

Tannus15

There is nothing wrong with a one shot mechanic as long as it's well telegraphed. one of the only 1 shots in the game I really dislike are the random ghosts at the end of fang lair HM as you can't clearly see where the gaps are in the line.

The light walls at the end of depths of malatar do a similar thing in a much better way.

if you're dying to the one shots in vVH you're not paying enough attention to the telegraphs and the mechanics of the fight.

hafgood

Learn the mechs, learn not to stand in stupid, and you will be fine, the game doesn't need dumbing down

jahaposada

Thought this thread would be about Shrikes.

Ceejengine

Fennwitty wrote: »

As a main tank, I think there's a huge difference to draw between "probable one-shot" vs. "guaranteed one-shot."

I generally have no problem with "probable one-shot" mechanics. Players are strongly encouraged to dodge roll, interrupt etc.

I dislike "guaranteed one-shot" mechanics though for two reasons:

1. Lag can screw the players over even when they're fully ready. Getting lag at the end of Bloodroot Forge trying to dodge roll repeatedly 3 mobs? Yikes. EDIT: To clarify I'm not saying it's coded to guarantee death, I just can't think of another example right now.

2. "Guaranteed" anything limits playstyles. There's only one right response -- dodge roll/move or get whatever mechanic completed. Nothing else is 'correct'.

So in practice I'd like to see more "probable" than "guaranteed." If you're hit by a "probable" as a DPS that's almost certainly gonna kill you. If you're caught not blocking as a tank or already low on HP, it's probably gonna kill you.

But when it's not a guarantee, the group can respond differently. Maybe the healer throws up pre-emptive damage shields, and the tank uses a defensive ultimate to absorb the damage. Maybe the DPS slot a Purge or burst heal to get the tank back to full after taking a massive hit.

When it's dodge roll or nothing, there's ... only one possibility.

And the other thing that makes probables good is it gives healers something to do if the tank screws up. If a tank gets chunked for 85% of their health and heal 30% with a self heal, they're still barely above 50%, meaning the healer can make or break that fight.

Guaranteed one shots just leave the healer to... Res the tank? Except wait now the boss is loose and the melee DPS is kiting it. And now there's a 1 shot AoE on the tank's corpse. Aaaaand because the melee DPS wasn't defensively specced he got 1-shot through his block. Mage eats 2 melees and dies, and now its a wipe. There's no way the healer could even influence that fight.

Jaraal

jahaposada wrote: »

Thought this thread would be about Shrikes.

Yep, I've been one shotted plenty of times in harrowstorms for 69-75k. And it's pretty hard to follow "mechanics" when it's laggy as hell and there are 15 players all doing different things. Nobody's gonna accurately keep track of several one-shotting mobs being kited around who knows where.

Keep that garbage to organized, instanced play like vet dungeons, arenas, and trials.

Subfocus

I mean, no. Why would one shot mechanics be removed, they're not in abundance and they are avoidable, so that's a human error.