Player vs Procs

Nick_Balza

As we see, ZOS is not about doing anything with proc sets. And this is not discussion of "why procs are ruining the game". No need in mentioning obvious things.
So, the only way to make situation easier - development of own ways and tactics how to counter proc abusers.

I will tell own ways I was using and you can add/describe own experience. So, by progressing with this thread we will have sort of guide of handy tricks, which will help other people enjoy the game (or at least not to feel dispair in PvP).

Nick_Balza

Vateshran Staff. Knockback + roll dodge back interrupts the beam. Good if you are doing it on start when damage is not increased. If you are NB - cloak breaks beam too.

Crimson - fairly simple to keep distance and encounter before next proc (if you are stam/close range mage). Circle allows to get time when it is ok to attack.

Harbinger - DoTs, AoE and melee attacks can take down the operator.

Zaan - range, CC and powerful burst combo if you are feeling that opponent is lacking on resources.

General: range is your best friend. Same as snares and CC tools (add there stamina draining poisons and enemy will be without resources. Breaking free and roll dodges are very expensive for heavy armor). With new patch penalties on LA and HA allow us stacking penetration to make effective bursts. Proc builds mainly focused on defence, speed and health recovery. Proc sets are useless on range, so leaving enemy without speed makes proc operator without ability to use proc potential.

Larcomar

Probably better posted in the pvp section. The anti proc group tend to hang out there.

Personally I love proc sets. They're fun, open up a huge amount of build variety and fill gaps that classes have. Plus, they're really not OP. People just need to learn to identify and counter them. Like most other stuff in the game.

You named a few of the common ones, but missed the obvious one: if you really can't outheal a pretty basic dot, slot a purge. Covers venomous, syvarra's, sheer venom.... you name it. How all these uber pvp'rs who want "skill based pvp" don't know that is beyond me.

Nick_Balza

Larcomar wrote: »

Probably better posted in the pvp section. The anti proc group tend to hang out there.

Personally I love proc sets. They're fun, open up a huge amount of build variety and fill gaps that classes have. Plus, they're really not OP. People just need to learn to identify and counter them. Like most other stuff in the game.

You named a few of the common ones, but missed the obvious one: if you really can't outheal a pretty basic dot, slot a purge. Covers venomous, syvarra's, sheer venom.... you name it. How all these uber pvp'rs who want "skill based pvp" don't know that is beyond me.

Probably, but it is still directly related to combat and mechanics)

> Really not OP
I've never seen that OP operator will say that OP is OP and he is abusing game mechanics)

> fill gaps that classes have
Still not OP? :>
That's the point of the game with classes and stuff. It is ROLE PLAYING game. Someone has own advantages and disadvantages. What makes game fair and balanced. Character without flaws is actually an OP.

> You named a few of the common ones
Yeah, because they are broken and obviously overperforming. There are much more of them and list is really long. People here were posting bunch of logs with character vs proc set performance.

Larcomar

Maybe. I never quite know which forums are for what around here - there are far too many - just usually ask pve qu's here, pvp one's down below. Though, tbh, that's a bit of a toxic cesspit of nerf xyz threads nowadays so, yeah, prob best here.

On the "really not OP" point, I use proc sets, but I don't really use those ones. Vateshran isn't bad I suppose but honestly I'd rather have a snb on the back bar. Call me old fashioned. I did try Crimson but the tell is so obvious any decent player will avoid it; I just ended up using it for quick resource takes solo. The one's I mentionned - they have their place. Specifically, the last 2 - 3 days of a campaign. Against the pve types who come in with 17k health, no heals and no purge, sure, they wreck.

But in all seriousness, you're not going to kill someone who know what they're doing with them. Take venomous. It does mediocre damage, has a massively obvious tell and a *fifteen second* cooldown. You hit a decent player with it, they just purge. And one of your two sets is now just deadweight for the next 15 seconds. The people who criticise it (not you) don't know what they're taking about; my favorite was the guy who complained that "Venomous Smite + Malacath = OP." Errm venomous smite requires *crits* to proc......

On the main point you made though. It's an interesting one. You said "That's the point of the game with classes and stuff.....[snip] Someone has own advantages and disadvantages. What makes game fair and balanced. Character without flaws is actually an OP." I think there's two things I'd say there.

1. The game isn't balanced. What I think people have now realised is that the classes aren't equal - there's a ton of posts about this post proc set ban. While the new classes (warden and necro) have the "full package," the older classes really don't. Because they were designed way back. Take magdk's for instance. They have some pretty big holes. Mobility, purge, heals, burst etc etc It just isn't the case that "Someone has own advantages and disadvantages;" it's that some classes have no disadvantages, but others have to plug the gaps they have... using things like psyjic, vampire, and sets. I'm not saying that's how the game should be; I'm just saying that's how it is. the sets arn't arn't OP. They're just letting people bring their classes up to a competitive level. Filling the holes other classes don't have.

2. "It is ROLE PLAYING game." I snipped that out because it's an interesting and slightly separate point. I don't propose to have a long and probably fruitless discussion of what an RP game is. And whether the differentiation of those roles should really depend on *gear* - as opposed to class. Let me just say this though. Before the no proc ban I had eight characters all of whom were very uniquie, distinct and played totally differently from each other.
- my magblade was a bomber, who could sneak in and (yes, using vicious death) potentially take out an entire group single handed.
- my necro was a pure tank, a raging goliath who stood astride the world (or a flag) for.... 20 seconds. I wasn't using harbinger but definitely wanted to try it out on him.
- my temp was warrior maiden, who'd toppling charge in, hit crescent sweep, spam a couple of jabs then jesus beam you. She used balorgh I suppose if that counts. She wasn't uber, but it was different and a fun playstyle.
- my magdk was totally different, a shock heavy attack guy. Squishy as hell up close but boy could he lay down suppressing fire for a group. Huge fun.
- my stamblade was a stealth recon/sniper guy. I did try proc sets on him at one point but seriously, you want burst to kill and ring of the wild hunt to relocate before you take another shot.
- my stamden was a bezerker; yes, he used a maelstrom 2h and unleashed terror. Me bad. But boy was it fun stampeding into the middle of an enemy zerg and seeing if you could charge through to the other side.
- my mage was, well he's a mage. Actually, he's the one toon who still works. but hell, when youve got burst with shards, an ok execute and the ability to shield and streak out of dodge why not.
- my stamsorc, he was all about mobility. A hit and run bow skirmisher, who could flank an enemy zerg, put some pressure on the guys at the back and bol out if he got into trouble.

I'm not sure if that count's as a role playing game. But they were all different, they were all fun and they all had a different role. I'd play a different one each day for 2-3 hours, and have a blast. The ndo something totally different the next day.

Now? I have a bunch of guys who all look the same, play the same and just spam dizzying swing - dizzying swing - dawnbreaker - execute. If I can find someone. It's boring.....

Gilvoth

the only thing proc sets did was allow us users different choices in the way we dealt damage or the way we used defenses, nothing more.
as we can see right now with all proc sets disabled it proves that.
the same people still die to the same enemies. the people i used to allways kill still die to me, the same people that used to kill me still kill me, the same people that i stalemated with still stalemate me. the same people that run zergs still run zergs.
its all the same with or without proc sets.
the only thing proc sets did was give us choices in armor set ups.

Scardan

Larcomar wrote: »

Probably better posted in the pvp section. The anti proc group tend to hang out there.

Personally I love proc sets. They're fun, open up a huge amount of build variety and fill gaps that classes have. Plus, they're really not OP. People just need to learn to identify and counter them. Like most other stuff in the game.

You named a few of the common ones, but missed the obvious one: if you really can't outheal a pretty basic dot, slot a purge. Covers venomous, syvarra's, sheer venom.... you name it. How all these uber pvp'rs who want "skill based pvp" don't know that is beyond me.

I name Oblivion's Foe . Purging Soul Trap and 12820 Magic Damage over 10 seconds from a set under pressure of Vateshran and Crimson, and class skills like Blastbones from random magcro in chaotic battle environment .

Larcomar

Scardan wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Probably better posted in the pvp section. The anti proc group tend to hang out there.

Personally I love proc sets. They're fun, open up a huge amount of build variety and fill gaps that classes have. Plus, they're really not OP. People just need to learn to identify and counter them. Like most other stuff in the game.

You named a few of the common ones, but missed the obvious one: if you really can't outheal a pretty basic dot, slot a purge. Covers venomous, syvarra's, sheer venom.... you name it. How all these uber pvp'rs who want "skill based pvp" don't know that is beyond me.

I name Oblivion's Foe . Purging Soul Trap and 12820 Magic Damage over 10 seconds from a set under pressure of Vateshran and Crimson, and class skills like Blastbones from random magcro in chaotic battle environment .

Oooo Now I want to try that one. Oh, wait. I can't

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Larcomar wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Probably better posted in the pvp section. The anti proc group tend to hang out there.

Personally I love proc sets. They're fun, open up a huge amount of build variety and fill gaps that classes have. Plus, they're really not OP. People just need to learn to identify and counter them. Like most other stuff in the game.

You named a few of the common ones, but missed the obvious one: if you really can't outheal a pretty basic dot, slot a purge. Covers venomous, syvarra's, sheer venom.... you name it. How all these uber pvp'rs who want "skill based pvp" don't know that is beyond me.

I name Oblivion's Foe . Purging Soul Trap and 12820 Magic Damage over 10 seconds from a set under pressure of Vateshran and Crimson, and class skills like Blastbones from random magcro in chaotic battle environment .

Oooo Now I want to try that one. Oh, wait. I can't

Good.