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When will stamina be great?
TheVimpi
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I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
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El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because its a new patch. Stam Necros were top dogs for a while before these last two updates. They're still strong, but magicka is now back; specifically magblades which have gone from the scrap heap to the top in a span of 3 months.
Its cyclical. I'm guessing they will make their way back later this yearEdited by El_Borracho on March 17, 2021 9:17PM3 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina is overperforming in PvP and will be even more so with the buffs to Medium armor and the complete lack of penalties, compared to Light armor which for some reason takes increased physical damage despite already taking the most physical damage due to the least armor. I think it's reasonable that if Stamina should be the dominant choice in one half of the game, that Magicka should at least be viable in the other half. Medium armor has a % increase to weapon damage that is stronger now after everyone received an additional 1000 base W/S damage, and providing penetration is usually the job of the tank. Between Major/Minor Breach and gold Infused Crusher, tanks provide 11030 pen at minimum, without considering Torug's, Tremorscale, or Alkosh, and no PvE enemy should have more than 18200 armor, meaning you need no more than 7170 pen to cap, and often quite a bit less. Sharpened trait gets you halfway there already, and many decent Stamina sets provide pen as one of their lines; Tzogvin's for instance is pretty solid after the recent changes, as it actually provides MORE crit than it used to, being one of the very few crit sets that was buffed last patch.Edited by Sangwyne on March 17, 2021 9:58PM13 -
TheVimpi✭Ofc i'm speaking about PVE, PVP should be balanced in other way. But In pve stamina don't have 7k penetration WITHOUT lover stone. With it it's possible to reach 7k, but you'll lost your crit, which is more valuable!2
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TheVimpi✭About Alcosh and penetration sets on stam dd: It's useless. Proc sets (Relequen) and self-buffing sets such as Kinras and Deadly shows us much better result0
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Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭About Alcosh and penetration sets on stam dd: It's useless. Proc sets (Relequen) and self-buffing sets such as Kinras and Deadly shows us much better result
I meant that tanks usually provide some penetration through sets like Tremorscale, Alkosh or Torugs. Kinras and Relequen are solid Stamina DD sets, and recommended by Alcast; Essence Thief is also a great option, if you can finagle the mechanic, due to providing resource sustain, healing, and up to 100% uptime on the untyped 10% damage bonus, whereas Kinras provides more utility to allies but doesn't have sustain and is less useful if you already have Major Berserk available from other sources like Sorcerer's Storm Atronach. Tzogvin's is useful if you are starved for bar space, as it grants Minor Force, allowing you to drop Barbed Trap, on top of some much-needed penetration, and was actually buffed this patch in terms of the amount of crit it gives. Aegis Caller was likewise buffed with the introduction of the Bleed status effect providing some damage and Minor Mangle when it procs, and is a great substitute for Relequen, providing comparable proc damage (3730 vs Relequen's 3550) to multiple enemies at the same time without requiring a period to ramp up in damage, although you'd likely still want another set to provide Minor Slayer. Laugh all you want, but Plague Slinger is actually a pretty viable set too, dealing 5 instances of 5095 damage, for a total of 25475 over 8 seconds (3184.4/s) to a single target and having one of the goofiest animations in the game, it's literally a dead Skeever corpse spewing these balls of poison at nearby enemies, it's great.1 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
Currently Medium Armor provides Weapon Damage and Weapon Critical per piece, with each piece having 60-70% the armor rating of Heavy Armor.
Light Armor provides Spell Penetration and Spell Critical per piece, with each piece having 20-30% the armor rating of Heavy Armor.
If Medium Armor was suddenly given Physical Penetration, it would be providing more offensive and defensive benefits than Light Armor, and that's not to mention that Stamina abilities often have cheaper base costs and higher base damage than Magicka abilities.
Now, Medium Armor could be given Physical Penetration per piece, but Light Armor would also have to be given Spell Damage per piece.
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Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
Really? Its the opposite. Stam totally dominates. Look around for parses in YouTube, guilds discord etc. Stam parses are way higher for all classes vs mag on the same class.
If you dont reach the pen cap in raids then its support roles issue. Tank needs to wear Alkosh and Tremorscale in stam groups.4 -
TheVimpi✭I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
Really? Its the opposite. Stam totally dominates. Look around for parses in YouTube, guilds discord etc. Stam parses are way higher for all classes vs mag on the same class.
If you dont reach the pen cap in raids then its support roles issue. Tank needs to wear Alkosh and Tremorscale in stam groups.
If they dominate, where's all stamina raid groups? Show me one.0 -
TheVimpi✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Have you ever stepped foot into Cyrodiil?
No and i don't want to2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Currently Medium Armor provides Weapon Damage and Weapon Critical per piece, with each piece having 60-70% the armor rating of Heavy Armor.
Light Armor provides Spell Penetration and Spell Critical per piece, with each piece having 20-30% the armor rating of Heavy Armor.
That's not entirely correct.
First and foremost no stam DPS will run heavy armor.
Secondly, damage taken is strongly depending on damage type (martial or magical, AoE or ST) and if you just dodged or are CC immune in addition to your armor class.
If my calculations are correct you take- between 138,4% and 148,8% of the martial damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 heavy
- between 95,14% and 102,3% of the magical damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 heavy
- between 118,2% and 127,1% of the martial damage in 7 medium that you would take in 7 heavy
- between 102,7% and 112,7% of the magical damage in 7 medium that you would take in 7 heavy
But that doesn't even matter because you would compare light to medium armor for damage dealers.
So you'll take- between 114,7% and 117% of the martial damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 medium
- between 90,76% and 92,6% of the magical damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 medium
So your comment on the mitigation part is a bit misleading.
I hope I don't embarrass myself as maths isn't my part to shine. Fingers crossed.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on March 18, 2021 6:53PM1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
Really? Its the opposite. Stam totally dominates. Look around for parses in YouTube, guilds discord etc. Stam parses are way higher for all classes vs mag on the same class.
If you dont reach the pen cap in raids then its support roles issue. Tank needs to wear Alkosh and Tremorscale in stam groups.
If they dominate, where's all stamina raid groups? Show me one.
Pve raid mechanics advantage ranged magicka builds more than melee stamina builds, so the 5-10% dps advantage for stamina doesn't matter. Magicka is just more effective in real play.
Pvp is exactly the opposite, it heavily, heavily advantages stamina builds.1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Stam always parsed higher, it's just no one uses them in Trial content because the support sets are awkward to fit in, less cleave, and range issues. Literally everywhere else they're fine.2 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Currently Medium Armor provides Weapon Damage and Weapon Critical per piece, with each piece having 60-70% the armor rating of Heavy Armor.
Light Armor provides Spell Penetration and Spell Critical per piece, with each piece having 20-30% the armor rating of Heavy Armor.
That's not entirely correct.
First and foremost no stam DPS will run heavy armor.
Secondly, damage taken is strongly depending on damage type (martial or magical, AoE or ST) and if you just dodged or are CC immune in addition to your armor class.
If my calculations are correct you take- between 138,4% and 148,8% of the martial damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 heavy
- between 95,14% and 102,3% of the magical damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 heavy
- between 118,2% and 127,1% of the martial damage in 7 medium that you would take in 7 heavy
- between 102,7% and 112,7% of the magical damage in 7 medium that you would take in 7 heavy
But that doesn't even matter because you would compare light to medium armor for damage dealers.
So you'll take- between 114,7% and 117% of the martial damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 medium
- between 90,76% and 92,6% of the magical damage in 7 light that you would take in 7 medium
So your comment on the mitigation part is a bit misleading.
I hope I don't embarrass myself as maths isn't my part to shine. Fingers crossed.
Ah, yes. I forgot about the recent addition of bonuses and penalties.0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭About Alcosh and penetration sets on stam dd: It's useless. Proc sets (Relequen) and self-buffing sets such as Kinras and Deadly shows us much better result
Why is alkosh useless on stamina dps? Don't you want to help group? [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on March 19, 2021 12:39PM0 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭
Pvp players aren't players of eso. Go play overwatch or For honor idk
Lol what? Just because you don't like pvp/suck at it doesn't mean that pvpers must go play other pvp game.
Why don't you go play something else that only has pve?.9 -
TheVimpi✭But stamina still need to be improved or magicka nerfed. You can't deny that there's no stamina trial groups0
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ZeroDPS✭✭✭✭stamina dps MUST always has more damage output than magicka, because stams have much more chance to die because of melee range, standing in constant aoes!1
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Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭stamina dps MUST always has more damage output than magicka, because stams have much more chance to die because of melee range, standing in constant aoes!
I love stam so much I had to learn to play a melee magicka toon. So I’m standing there in VAS+2 on my MagDK wearing my Zen’s and MK nice and cozy with Olms bash weaving my dots, side stepping bacon from Felms when Llothis hits me with a cone, we are 2% from jump and I’m over here like:
https://imgur.com/gallery/1SE6jsk
It’s got nothing to do with dying faster or even a learn to play issue. Magicka comps have the superior support sets that can boost the group.Edited by Everest_Lionheart on March 20, 2021 12:03AM1 -
TheVimpi✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »stamina dps MUST always has more damage output than magicka, because stams have much more chance to die because of melee range, standing in constant aoes!
I love stam so much I had to learn to play a melee magicka toon. So I’m standing there in VAS+2 on my MagDK wearing my Zen’s and MK nice and cozy with Olms bash weaving my dots, side stepping bacon from Felms when Llothis hits me with a cone, we are 2% from jump and I’m over here like:
https://imgur.com/gallery/1SE6jsk
It’s got nothing to do with dying faster or even a learn to play issue. Magicka comps have the superior support sets that can boost the group.
Agree. So the fix of this problem can be a boosting stamina damage EVEN more or adding more support sets for tanks and healers, which will boost stamina efficiency0 -
Armethius✭✭✭lol stam op AF [snip]
[Edited to remove Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on March 21, 2021 2:26PM1 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
Really? Its the opposite. Stam totally dominates. Look around for parses in YouTube, guilds discord etc. Stam parses are way higher for all classes vs mag on the same class.
If you dont reach the pen cap in raids then its support roles issue. Tank needs to wear Alkosh and Tremorscale in stam groups.
If they dominate, where's all stamina raid groups? Show me one.
Actually, most raid groups are not mag because of DPS, because stamina is still consistently 5k higher then mag. Most raids are all mag because they can dps from range, meaning you don't need to chase a moving boss to keep rele stacks, and you can keep youre distance from bosses with aoes that make it impossible to stand by.
I do think there is something to say about stam not having support sets. It seems like stam gets one support set per year, and 7 selfish set, wear as the opposite is true for mag. But no one wants to run Alkosh and assault on thier dps, because their numbers would drop, even though it would perform no better then a DK with zens and free up a 2 sets for tanks.Edited by ke.sardenb14_ESO on March 29, 2021 2:55AM0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
Really? Its the opposite. Stam totally dominates. Look around for parses in YouTube, guilds discord etc. Stam parses are way higher for all classes vs mag on the same class.
If you dont reach the pen cap in raids then its support roles issue. Tank needs to wear Alkosh and Tremorscale in stam groups.
If they dominate, where's all stamina raid groups? Show me one.
Actually, most raid groups are not mag because of DPS, because stamina is still consistently 5k higher then mag. Most raids are all mag because they can dps from range, meaning you don't need to chase a moving boss to keep rele stacks, and you can keep youre distance from bosses with aoes that make it impossible to stand by.
I do think there is something to say about stam not having support sets. It seems like stam gets one support set per year, and 7 selfish set, wear as the opposite is true for mag. But no one wants to run Alkosh and assault on thier dps, because their numbers would drop, even though it would perform no better then a DK with zens and free up a 2 sets for tanks.
I’ve been thinking of running alkosh and war machine actually on my Stamden to give my tanks a chance to wear at least one different set. The war machine is mainly to open up the battle with a full 500 ulti to get us into Bloodthirsty bonus sooner and to do the same when we hit exe range.
Funny you mention Zen because I already do that on my MagDK as well. I don’t mind the hit to my DPS because I know what it does to buff the group. Never considered PA on a DPS though.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder, why do all stamina builds have less DPS than magicka? Why zos don't fix it? Just give penetration to medium armor and everything will be ok
all truth
well said
magicka has allways done More damage than stamina attacks, balance is needed to even the output amount equal in both stamina attacks and magicka attacks.
i look forward to the day the developers make this happen.0