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Complaint and suggestion about ability names, class names, and class design
Aertew
✭✭✭✭
Class names aren't too complicated but can be misleading. For example sorcerer seems like a caster with a staff, templar is stamina with a 2-handed sword, nightblade being a rogue with daggers ect. If you go to create a new character you can see this as well.
However you can go stamina or magicka for most classes if not every class. So the name "Sorcerer" doesn't work that well with a stamina version.
Dragon knight is the worst offender as if your a magicka dragonknight you aren't really a knight....
Ability names are far worse. With the base skill and morphs having different names. Please just either keep the base name or have the base name viewable when you look at it. I have had to google so many times the name of a skill to find out what it was.
So what's my suggestion? Just create different names for it. It's clear ZOS tries to create hybrid builds but misses the point that the whole reason people don't is that staffs will only regenerate magicka on heavy attacks and swords and bows only regenerate stamina. If they just heavy attacks do more damage we wouldn't be in this mess. People would have the freedom of hybrid builds. Dragonknights could breath out actual fire instead of poison gas.... Templars would be able to be magical warriors that could still wield swords. So if we can't have that, at least make unique names for variatins. This helps players identify what class they are while making them seem like they are a class, rather than a name like stamplar, or magsorc, ect..
The point is ability names are just too confusing and even if googling is easy to do a player shouldn't resort to googling the name of a ability they see on the wiki. I can see why it was done which was to add flavor. The ability art changing is really cool and I hope that can stay. But it would be nice if abilities are easier to recognize. Mabye I'm the only one that feels like that so I would like to hear responses.
On classes the main complain is that they could be easily named something else. Wardens being called Druids. Dragonknight mabye just being called Knight or Warrior. It also is wierd how on class selection they only show specific classes wielding specific weapons. Dragonknight has sword and shield, Nightblade has daggers, Templar has 2-handed. Sorc and necro has staffs. Which shows that the devs understand that each class falls under a "sterotype" of wielding specific weapons. But with their idealogy of all classes being able to do different things, makes the classes feel less unique and makes them lose out on their charm and identity. A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks. However I think it's been implemented for so long that it would recieve backlash. However I think at least talking to the community would be a good start, as I think people do want to see more love for hybrids. I know people say WoW and ESO have different gameplay and Ideaology but it's nice WoW has classes that do have unique mechanics or at least most of them feel nice and their names fit them.
I might not have worded my complaints in the best way and this probably was more a rant than anything. But the point being my biggest gripe with this game is that while it's nice that all the classes can wield staffs or swords and have abilities fit for each. Hybrids would be nice to see also it would work with the concept of "play how you want to. Abilities are confusing with the variations and names but that could just be me.
Would be nice to see people talk about both.
So to summarize, I feel like classes aren't that unqiue and that their names and themes might work better with a specific variation of playstyle, like magicka or stamina.
Abilities have different names which is nice to show variation and feels nice, but I feel like it can add confusion when you look up a build or someone tells you about a cool ability, and you can't find it. Only to realize it has a different name.
Again, hope people can respond. Mabye the whole post was just me venting about the state of the game or mabye legit complaints that can be easily fixed.
However you can go stamina or magicka for most classes if not every class. So the name "Sorcerer" doesn't work that well with a stamina version.
Dragon knight is the worst offender as if your a magicka dragonknight you aren't really a knight....
Ability names are far worse. With the base skill and morphs having different names. Please just either keep the base name or have the base name viewable when you look at it. I have had to google so many times the name of a skill to find out what it was.
So what's my suggestion? Just create different names for it. It's clear ZOS tries to create hybrid builds but misses the point that the whole reason people don't is that staffs will only regenerate magicka on heavy attacks and swords and bows only regenerate stamina. If they just heavy attacks do more damage we wouldn't be in this mess. People would have the freedom of hybrid builds. Dragonknights could breath out actual fire instead of poison gas.... Templars would be able to be magical warriors that could still wield swords. So if we can't have that, at least make unique names for variatins. This helps players identify what class they are while making them seem like they are a class, rather than a name like stamplar, or magsorc, ect..
The point is ability names are just too confusing and even if googling is easy to do a player shouldn't resort to googling the name of a ability they see on the wiki. I can see why it was done which was to add flavor. The ability art changing is really cool and I hope that can stay. But it would be nice if abilities are easier to recognize. Mabye I'm the only one that feels like that so I would like to hear responses.
On classes the main complain is that they could be easily named something else. Wardens being called Druids. Dragonknight mabye just being called Knight or Warrior. It also is wierd how on class selection they only show specific classes wielding specific weapons. Dragonknight has sword and shield, Nightblade has daggers, Templar has 2-handed. Sorc and necro has staffs. Which shows that the devs understand that each class falls under a "sterotype" of wielding specific weapons. But with their idealogy of all classes being able to do different things, makes the classes feel less unique and makes them lose out on their charm and identity. A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks. However I think it's been implemented for so long that it would recieve backlash. However I think at least talking to the community would be a good start, as I think people do want to see more love for hybrids. I know people say WoW and ESO have different gameplay and Ideaology but it's nice WoW has classes that do have unique mechanics or at least most of them feel nice and their names fit them.
I might not have worded my complaints in the best way and this probably was more a rant than anything. But the point being my biggest gripe with this game is that while it's nice that all the classes can wield staffs or swords and have abilities fit for each. Hybrids would be nice to see also it would work with the concept of "play how you want to. Abilities are confusing with the variations and names but that could just be me.
Would be nice to see people talk about both.
So to summarize, I feel like classes aren't that unqiue and that their names and themes might work better with a specific variation of playstyle, like magicka or stamina.
Abilities have different names which is nice to show variation and feels nice, but I feel like it can add confusion when you look up a build or someone tells you about a cool ability, and you can't find it. Only to realize it has a different name.
Again, hope people can respond. Mabye the whole post was just me venting about the state of the game or mabye legit complaints that can be easily fixed.
2
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Scardan✭✭✭✭✭Sorcerer - a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard. Sorcerer stays sorcerer even with the sword.
Dragon Knight are heavily related to the Akaviri and their Dragonguard, not to general noble title, therefore they are named Dragon Knight, lol.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythical_Beast,_Real_Powers
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Factions_D#Dragon_Knights
You propose naming changes here without knowing all the references. Same with Wardens. Names are simply given due to lore reasons. This game aimed at TES fans, like WoW aimed at Warcraft fans.
" A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks." - if we get light attacks restoring our pools, then, why not.
Feeling is subjective. To me classes feel different, due to differences in spells and gameplay.Edited by Scardan on March 17, 2021 10:31AMLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.2 -
Aertew✭✭✭✭Sorcerer - a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard. Sorcerer stays sorcerer even with the sword.
Dragon Knight are heavily related to the Akaviri and their Dragonguard, not to general noble title, therefore they are named Dragon Knight, lol.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythical_Beast,_Real_Powers
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Factions_D#Dragon_Knights
You propose naming changes here without knowing all the references. Same with Wardens. Names are simply given due to lore reasons. This game aimed at TES fans, like WoW aimed at Warcraft fans.
" A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks." - if we get light attacks restoring our pools, then, why not.
Feeling is subjective. To me classes feel different, due to differences in spells and gameplay.Sorcerer - a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard. Sorcerer stays sorcerer even with the sword.
Dragon Knight are heavily related to the Akaviri and their Dragonguard, not to general noble title, therefore they are named Dragon Knight, lol.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythical_Beast,_Real_Powers
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Factions_D#Dragon_Knights
You propose naming changes here without knowing all the references. Same with Wardens. Names are simply given due to lore reasons. This game aimed at TES fans, like WoW aimed at Warcraft fans.
" A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks." - if we get light attacks restoring our pools, then, why not.
Feeling is subjective. To me classes feel different, due to differences in spells and gameplay.
The book you linked was in ESO lol. Also with your definition of sorcerer, then technically every class in the game is a sorcerer since they all have magical powers.
As with Dragonknights I'm pretty they have only got named in ESO while the Akaviri dragonguard probably did exist for a while.
The references are pretty much self contained in ESO.
As for the "names are given for lore reasons" I can't find Dragonknights or wardens being named that outside of ESO. The reference of Sorcerer isn't even really correct in ESO, as the only difference they have besides mages is in Oblivion can absorb spells that are cast on them. In Morrowind they are great at enchanting, can summon daedra, and can summon undead.
So really Sorcerers are mentioned but don't carry over the ability to absorb spells from Oblivion and can't summon undead.1 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Classes in other games are usually directly linked to the role as well. A sorcerer in WoW or DaoC is always a damage dealer, never a tank or a healer. That is not the case in ESO.
I think it is time to move on and leave the Tolkien and d&d tropes and dogmata behind.Edited by thorwyn on March 18, 2021 6:36AMAnd if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon6 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or not?
The game is getting close to 7 years old, and class names remained the same.
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Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Class names are fine, and more creative than all the stereotypical class names out there.
In char creation, characters are wearing the most lore-friendly gear and weapon. It's not just weapons, you'll notice that some classes wear robes, others medium armor etc. This is fun imo, gives more class identity, based on stereotypes though.
I fully agree about how confusing class names are. Not only are three names per skill, but they also get renamed from time to time. Coulda been simpler. However I would argue that I love ESO skill names, e.g. Radiant Ward. Most mmos I've seen have silly short names, e.g. Bio. Wtf? In ESO even skills and flavour text are lore-friendly.
Fully agree about hubrid builds too, just let HA restore whatever resource we want, we've been asking for this for years!Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr0 -
Scardan✭✭✭✭✭Sorcerer - a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard. Sorcerer stays sorcerer even with the sword.
Dragon Knight are heavily related to the Akaviri and their Dragonguard, not to general noble title, therefore they are named Dragon Knight, lol.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythical_Beast,_Real_Powers
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Factions_D#Dragon_Knights
You propose naming changes here without knowing all the references. Same with Wardens. Names are simply given due to lore reasons. This game aimed at TES fans, like WoW aimed at Warcraft fans.
" A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks." - if we get light attacks restoring our pools, then, why not.
Feeling is subjective. To me classes feel different, due to differences in spells and gameplay.Sorcerer - a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard. Sorcerer stays sorcerer even with the sword.
Dragon Knight are heavily related to the Akaviri and their Dragonguard, not to general noble title, therefore they are named Dragon Knight, lol.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythical_Beast,_Real_Powers
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Factions_D#Dragon_Knights
You propose naming changes here without knowing all the references. Same with Wardens. Names are simply given due to lore reasons. This game aimed at TES fans, like WoW aimed at Warcraft fans.
" A good fix could be just remove resource gain from heavy attacks." - if we get light attacks restoring our pools, then, why not.
Feeling is subjective. To me classes feel different, due to differences in spells and gameplay.
The book you linked was in ESO lol. Also with your definition of sorcerer, then technically every class in the game is a sorcerer since they all have magical powers.
As with Dragonknights I'm pretty they have only got named in ESO while the Akaviri dragonguard probably did exist for a while.
The references are pretty much self contained in ESO.
As for the "names are given for lore reasons" I can't find Dragonknights or wardens being named that outside of ESO. The reference of Sorcerer isn't even really correct in ESO, as the only difference they have besides mages is in Oblivion can absorb spells that are cast on them. In Morrowind they are great at enchanting, can summon daedra, and can summon undead.
So really Sorcerers are mentioned but don't carry over the ability to absorb spells from Oblivion and can't summon undead.
Yeah, they are technically sorcerers. All of them. TES games never had pure fighter/mage/rogue classes and and has always encouraged the use of magic. The best rogue is an illusionist magician with a dagger, the best warrior is who actively uses magic for buffs, etc.
ESO is canon, so books are viable xD.
Let's be extremely precise in our use of terms.1 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do not tell me my stamina sorcerer is not lore appropriate!
In the previous Elder Scrolls games sorcerers were about buffing themselves and their gear (usually absorbing others magic) and about summoning instead of being about casting direct spells. They had few weapon restrictions, and they could wear heavier armor than mages.
My stamina sorcerer uses magic to fortify herself and her weapons to be effective. She sometimes summons daedra when she wants a friend.Edited by TBois on March 18, 2021 1:35PMPC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD0 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭I don't think you can find a single word that would properly encompass all possible class builds.
And I don't think the game would be better if we changed class names for something that you personally find more suitable.
Lmao, you point out knight as the problematic word and then you propose to get rid of 'dragon'?Dragon knight is the worst offender as if your a magicka dragonknight you aren't really a knight....
[...]
Dragonknight mabye just being called Knight or Warrior.
Tbh, neither knight nor warrior is a good word, DKs are more like monks.
What's wrong with poison gas? It's one of the traditional draconic aspects, along with fire, cold, lightning and acid. (D&D)People would have the freedom of hybrid builds. Dragonknights could breath out actual fire instead of poison gas....0