Any chance weaving will go away at some point?

Kwoung

I generally only play MMO's, mostly because I enjoy the genre, but also because I do not have the twitch skills to play FPS's and other types of games that require lightning millisecond reflex's or force you to complete 2-4 perfectly timed actions per second in order to be competitive and complete high end content. I have high/top end raided in most other MMO's I have played over the past 22 years, but ESO is the first in my experience to require twitch gaming skills, in order to be able to pull competitive DPS, which is basically ruining my game, since I have done everything but Vet DLC trials and would very much like to.

Also, I feel it isn't really fair that an entire group of players be gated from content for any number of reasons beyond their control. Some of us are older, some much older, some have disabilities, poor eyesight, maybe tunnel vision (inability to process your entire screen at once) and the list goes on. ESO seems to be highly prejudice against this part of their player base and doesn't really offer any sort of options to help with this issue. And no, upping the base DPS for people that simply spam light attacks is not a solution. I personally have practiced my rotations for over a year now and have come to the conclusion that I will never be able to do the sort of DPS needed to pull my own weight for one or more of the reasons stated above, I am just physically incapable of keeping up a rotation with LA weaving involved. A rotation yes no problem... 2-4 perfectly timed inputs per second, not so much.

So, any chance it will go away at some point?

illuminousflux

Nope

ArcVelarian

I only see LA weaving really going away if they buff Heavy Attacks.

Sanctum74

I don’t see weaving going anywhere and there really is no reason to remove it. That’s why they have normal, vet, and hard mode versions available to accommodate all skill levels. I’d hardly call that prejudice.

Vevvev

No, that'd be boring as heck to remove weaving, and then the only way to reliably proc enchantments and poisons would be forcing us to use weapon abilities. Also we'd have to remove Crystal Weapon and Imbue Weapon since they'd die overnight, as well as sets that require consecutive light attacks.

VaxtinTheWolf

Vevvev wrote: »

No, that'd be boring as heck to remove weaving, and then the only way to reliably proc enchantments and poisons would be forcing us to use weapon abilities. Also we'd have to remove Crystal Weapon and Imbue Weapon since they'd die overnight, as well as sets that require consecutive light attacks.

Light Attacks deleted, Nightblades Yeeted. Grim Focus/Leeching Attacks need light attacks, several sets and Empower rely on them. It's deeply embedded in this game, if you want it removed or changed to be passive attacks every second like in other MMO's basically means a new game entirely. It's just not happening.

ShadowX0997

All of the game content is available to play at a very achievable skill level, it's called normal. Why would they dumb down the game and make it no fun for more skilled players?

MellowMagic

Entire sets and abilities need weaving to work. Is a nightblade supposed to spam 5 light attacks in a row to proc their class ability?

& 2-4 perfectly timed inputs? My fiancèe (who has never played an mmo prior to eso) barely knows how to weave and she manages 70k+ dps which is more then adequate for vet content. Even without weaving some classes can definitely pull that dps. Maybe practice more? Vet trials aren't for everyone.

Seraphayel

They tried to fix it, but weren’t able to. When they realized they couldn’t remove it or solve the problem, they turned it into a feature. It’s here to stay (unfortunately).

Sanctum74

Seraphayel wrote: »

They tried to fix it, but weren’t able to. When they realized they couldn’t remove it or solve the problem, they turned it into a feature. It’s here to stay (unfortunately).

False, they never tried to fix it because it was never a problem. It’s a feature of combat, always has been and always will.

Jacozilla

“2-4 perfectly timed actions per second”?

OP doesn’t understand what he’s complaining about.
- 2 per sec, sure, that’s 1 skill + 1 LA weave each GCD window of 1.0 sec
- 4 doesn’t exist, GCD prevents more than 1 skill per sec and even ideal perfect weavers get 1.0 ratio or slightly better. 4 per sec would require a 3.0 LA ratio.

Another straw man for OP is his myth or excuse can’t do vet trials because can’t weave. Fact is players today have vastly more power creep dps than game at launch and some years ago. Meaning a player today doing zero weaving, just 1 LA every 5 sec or so to generate some ultimate, with rest of rotation just skills - has far more dps than the perfect weavers and animation cancel player from 3+ years ago.

In year 1-2 of game, 25k was considered absolute elite level, and players cleared every vet trial and arena that was available at that time (e.g. the base trials in crag and vma). OP is just making excuses as he clearly said he can do great at the skills rotation part.

Just the skills rotation part with today’s gear and power creep will be at least double, close to triple the dps that the max elites had years ago.

Milo

If weaving goes away, I go away.

Scardan

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They tried to fix it, but weren’t able to. When they realized they couldn’t remove it or solve the problem, they turned it into a feature. It’s here to stay (unfortunately).

False, they never tried to fix it because it was never a problem. It’s a feature of combat, always has been and always will.

According to my info digging some months ago, animation cancelling was a bug they couldn't fix.
Idk if it is true, since I can't remember sources.

Jacozilla

Scardan wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They tried to fix it, but weren’t able to. When they realized they couldn’t remove it or solve the problem, they turned it into a feature. It’s here to stay (unfortunately).

False, they never tried to fix it because it was never a problem. It’s a feature of combat, always has been and always will.

According to my info digging some months ago, animation cancelling was a bug they couldn't fix.
Idk if it is true, since I can't remember sources.

Yes and no.

Definitely true ani canceling / weaving meta was an unintended design consequence. Zos has flat out said this. They never intentionally set out to design an ani canceling combat system, so it is incorrect to say was never a problem or was a feature of combat at launch.

Zos admitted trying to tinker with the GCD basic combat system to try and remove it but couldn’t because of the core nature of GCDs but still allowing interruptible actions like blocking, etc. e.g. only way to fix would have been massive nerf to reflex actions like block, which you need to be able to interrupt and skill or animation for, otherwise stuck waiting to block while in an animation.

But I’ve never heard zos say bug, a bug is something that is broken, an unintended design consequence that doesn’t break anything but adds new ability for creative players is an unintended feature. Companies have two options with unintended features that don’t break anything else - they can remove that unintended feature or just go with it. Zos chose the latter option.

So much so that after awhile Zos not only came flat out and said it is now official game feature but is promoted, taught and referenced in load screens and level up advisor tips.

The group that argues it is therefore not a legit feature because it wasn’t intended, well lots of good things in life were t intended either, like penicillin. Bottom line is first it was a mistake by zos due to how GCD combat system they made relies on canceling, then they embraced it and confirmed it official.

Firstmep

Dungeons and trials have multiple difficulty levels specifically so everyone can experience them.
Btw if you have issues with weaving there are heavy attack builds out there with very easy rotations that rely on well heavy attacking a lot, which is just holding down left click.
I cleared vet Vateshran hollows and did spirit slayer on my 2nd try with a heavy attack magplar build and it was an absolute cakewalk, and it wasn't even fully optimized for dmg.

Kwoung

Jacozilla wrote: »

“2-4 perfectly timed actions per second”?

OP doesn’t understand what he’s complaining about.
- 2 per sec, sure, that’s 1 skill + 1 LA weave each GCD window of 1.0 sec
- 4 doesn’t exist, GCD prevents more than 1 skill per sec and even ideal perfect weavers get 1.0 ratio or slightly better. 4 per sec would require a 3.0 LA ratio.

Another straw man for OP is his myth or excuse can’t do vet trials because can’t weave. Fact is players today have vastly more power creep dps than game at launch and some years ago. Meaning a player today doing zero weaving, just 1 LA every 5 sec or so to generate some ultimate, with rest of rotation just skills - has far more dps than the perfect weavers and animation cancel player from 3+ years ago.

In year 1-2 of game, 25k was considered absolute elite level, and players cleared every vet trial and arena that was available at that time (e.g. the base trials in crag and vma). OP is just making excuses as he clearly said he can do great at the skills rotation part.

Just the skills rotation part with today’s gear and power creep will be at least double, close to triple the dps that the max elites had years ago.

1 - LA
2 - Skill
3 - Synergy
4 - Potion

That would be 4 things in 1 second, no?

Seraphayel

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They tried to fix it, but weren’t able to. When they realized they couldn’t remove it or solve the problem, they turned it into a feature. It’s here to stay (unfortunately).

False, they never tried to fix it because it was never a problem. It’s a feature of combat, always has been and always will.

Animation canceling (weaving) was considered a problem, bug, unintended feature (call if what you want) for the first year(s). During ESO‘s launch it wasn’t a feature, it was something that ZOS wanted to fix and get rid of. They never found out the reason for this bug and eventually couldn’t fix it, hence it was accepted as a feature of the game and is even promoted as such for 2-3 years now. In 2014 and 2015 this wasn’t a thing.

colossalvoids

It might land on a deaf ear but I'd advise anyway.

Not perfectly weaving would not gate anyone from vet HM clears, first of all find a progression group of your level (starting from scrap) and not trying to dive into flashy skins right away. Chose your class according to your abilities, nightblade being an ultimate laweaving class, you also can try heavy attacking builds but it's surely not those solo ones people posting mostly, trials have different needs over solo content.

Anyway la weaving became less mandatory with cp change we just got so weaving once every 2-3 skills or opting from it would not absolutely obliterate your ability to clear content, if you'll have right class and rotation (environment awareness and such also obviously) you can progress on your own rules if able to find your fitting group.

Fennwitty

Treat it like a rhythm game, not a twitch skill.

Changing my thinking really helped my learn it. Don't try to 'cancel' the light attack -- just start a light attack and then press a skill a moment later.

Mouse and keyboard: Left click, tiny pause, keyboard press. Left click, tiny pause, keyboard press. The left click leads, the keyboard responds.

You can also try tanking and healing. Those roles don't expect nearly so much damage. If a tank doesn't weave, it's unlikely anyone even notices since they do like 5% group damage on a good day.

Raegwyr

Kwoung wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

“2-4 perfectly timed actions per second”?

OP doesn’t understand what he’s complaining about.
- 2 per sec, sure, that’s 1 skill + 1 LA weave each GCD window of 1.0 sec
- 4 doesn’t exist, GCD prevents more than 1 skill per sec and even ideal perfect weavers get 1.0 ratio or slightly better. 4 per sec would require a 3.0 LA ratio.

Another straw man for OP is his myth or excuse can’t do vet trials because can’t weave. Fact is players today have vastly more power creep dps than game at launch and some years ago. Meaning a player today doing zero weaving, just 1 LA every 5 sec or so to generate some ultimate, with rest of rotation just skills - has far more dps than the perfect weavers and animation cancel player from 3+ years ago.

In year 1-2 of game, 25k was considered absolute elite level, and players cleared every vet trial and arena that was available at that time (e.g. the base trials in crag and vma). OP is just making excuses as he clearly said he can do great at the skills rotation part.

Just the skills rotation part with today’s gear and power creep will be at least double, close to triple the dps that the max elites had years ago.

1 - LA
2 - Skill
3 - Synergy
4 - Potion

That would be 4 things in 1 second, no?

You use synergy every 10-20s (depends on how many synergies you have in group but orb is minimum) and pots every 45s.
2-3 actions per sec is completely doable for even bad players with some muscle memory. We are talking about seconds 150 apm, pros are doing above 350 (some of the best reaching 450)
It is really low op

VaxtinTheWolf

Kwoung wrote: »

1 - LA
2 - Skill
3 - Synergy
4 - Potion

That would be 4 things in 1 second, no?

If you really wanted to stretch that then one could also add in Block, Weapon swap, and Roll dodge to that list.

Spizzie

You're complaining about a core combat mechanic that distinguishes ESO combat from most other MMORPG combat systems. It's such a core component that they have a "helpful hint" message during loading screens that explains how to weave and why it's valuable.

If you can't do it, that's fine. Normal dungeons and overland content can be your jam. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Freakin_Hytte

Kwoung wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

“2-4 perfectly timed actions per second”?

OP doesn’t understand what he’s complaining about.
- 2 per sec, sure, that’s 1 skill + 1 LA weave each GCD window of 1.0 sec
- 4 doesn’t exist, GCD prevents more than 1 skill per sec and even ideal perfect weavers get 1.0 ratio or slightly better. 4 per sec would require a 3.0 LA ratio.

Another straw man for OP is his myth or excuse can’t do vet trials because can’t weave. Fact is players today have vastly more power creep dps than game at launch and some years ago. Meaning a player today doing zero weaving, just 1 LA every 5 sec or so to generate some ultimate, with rest of rotation just skills - has far more dps than the perfect weavers and animation cancel player from 3+ years ago.

In year 1-2 of game, 25k was considered absolute elite level, and players cleared every vet trial and arena that was available at that time (e.g. the base trials in crag and vma). OP is just making excuses as he clearly said he can do great at the skills rotation part.

Just the skills rotation part with today’s gear and power creep will be at least double, close to triple the dps that the max elites had years ago.

1 - LA
2 - Skill
3 - Synergy
4 - Potion

That would be 4 things in 1 second, no?

Lol you can't be serious in using that as an argument?

Especially when synergies comes up 2-3 times each minute and potion once every minute. You gotta do better than that and I love how you completely ignored his biggest point, aka the power creeping have been ridiculous these last 2-3 years and that you shouldn't have a problem with most of the vet content and if you do, it's not because you're bad at LA weaving

Elo106

Hope no one tells him how Lightattack -> Skill -> Bash was a thing

sillonan

The game is what it is at this point and what you're asking for -- if it's to be done properly -- would likely set off a chain reaction of other changes that I doubt the studio is willing to bankroll. Just look at how long the CP changes took, according to developers' accounts. Adjusting the game to no-weaving is WAY bigger than that.

I also think you're grossly overestimating, or at least overstating, how much weaving is about "twitch skills" with the current state of bash. Unless you're using something like "Crystal Fragments" as your spammable, all the "perfectly timed actions per second" are about familiarity and muscle memory.

As for the second paragraph, it's a bunch of self-serving rationalizations that don't make any sense if we break away from the premise that the game has to be what you want it to be. Nothing can appeal to everybody, that includes video games. Just because ESO is an MMO, it doesn't have to cater to the exact same crowd that plays a other MMOs. And even if it did, why shouldn't it be more like Ultima Online or Black Desert Online, rather than whatever it is you seem to be looking for.

Jacozilla

Kwoung wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

“2-4 perfectly timed actions per second”?

OP doesn’t understand what he’s complaining about.
- 2 per sec, sure, that’s 1 skill + 1 LA weave each GCD window of 1.0 sec
- 4 doesn’t exist, GCD prevents more than 1 skill per sec and even ideal perfect weavers get 1.0 ratio or slightly better. 4 per sec would require a 3.0 LA ratio.

Another straw man for OP is his myth or excuse can’t do vet trials because can’t weave. Fact is players today have vastly more power creep dps than game at launch and some years ago. Meaning a player today doing zero weaving, just 1 LA every 5 sec or so to generate some ultimate, with rest of rotation just skills - has far more dps than the perfect weavers and animation cancel player from 3+ years ago.

In year 1-2 of game, 25k was considered absolute elite level, and players cleared every vet trial and arena that was available at that time (e.g. the base trials in crag and vma). OP is just making excuses as he clearly said he can do great at the skills rotation part.

Just the skills rotation part with today’s gear and power creep will be at least double, close to triple the dps that the max elites had years ago.

1 - LA
2 - Skill
3 - Synergy
4 - Potion

That would be 4 things in 1 second, no?

I get your intent, even if the examples used are clearly impossible. (E.g. can’t use synergy or potion once per second)

But no, even if you could spam potion or synergy 1x per sec, those aren’t attacks per sec and OP was talking in context of attacks. His complaint if you re-read the OP wasn’t he couldn’t do skills rotation, he in fact said was good at that - so clearly clicking a key stroke wasn’t his issue. Just the mouse LA weaving or what he called fps twitch skills.

If you want to count keyboard click non-attack actions, sure, guess we could really broaden the scope lkke that, but if so then you’d have to count things like WASD keystrokes etc while attacking. But my reply point wasn’t to say that 4 clicks per sec wasn’t possible, merely the context OP was talking about - e.g. that 4 attacks per sec wasn’t possible due to the nature of GCD combat eso uses

Athan1

wdym? Weaving shows "skill"...

I mean, isn't it "skilful" to unlock all these skills, morph/upgrade them etc, only for them to get nerfed every other patch anyway, and have our autoattacks do 75% of damage?

Nord_Raseri

Nope. Btw, you do not need to do perfect animation canceling in order get decent dps utilizing LA weaving. I have severe nerve damage in my hands and most fingers and able to do 75-80k dps(On a non meta race- nord) on ps4. I just do the weaving a bit slower than others. You just need to create a build/rotation that works for you.

Juhasow

Kwoung wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

“2-4 perfectly timed actions per second”?

OP doesn’t understand what he’s complaining about.
- 2 per sec, sure, that’s 1 skill + 1 LA weave each GCD window of 1.0 sec
- 4 doesn’t exist, GCD prevents more than 1 skill per sec and even ideal perfect weavers get 1.0 ratio or slightly better. 4 per sec would require a 3.0 LA ratio.

Another straw man for OP is his myth or excuse can’t do vet trials because can’t weave. Fact is players today have vastly more power creep dps than game at launch and some years ago. Meaning a player today doing zero weaving, just 1 LA every 5 sec or so to generate some ultimate, with rest of rotation just skills - has far more dps than the perfect weavers and animation cancel player from 3+ years ago.

In year 1-2 of game, 25k was considered absolute elite level, and players cleared every vet trial and arena that was available at that time (e.g. the base trials in crag and vma). OP is just making excuses as he clearly said he can do great at the skills rotation part.

Just the skills rotation part with today’s gear and power creep will be at least double, close to triple the dps that the max elites had years ago.

1 - LA
2 - Skill
3 - Synergy
4 - Potion

That would be 4 things in 1 second, no?

Do You click synergy or use potion every second in the fight ?

thorwyn

Games will always have content that is impossible for some players with inabilities, age-related problems or other handicaps. This is a fact that players have to accept and work around instead of asking for changes, that would only make the game incredibly dull for the majority of other players. Even some of the better players out there, with no handicaps whatsoever, will never have a shot at beating all the content. That's how it is. The game offers a challenge and you can either pick it up and beat it, or fail in the process and realize you're not good enough (anymore?).
If proper weaving is impossible for you, you'd be surprised how much extra hand-eye coordination, reflexes and peripheral awareness is required in harder content besides just clicking LA and Skill every second.
On the constructive side, why not switch to a HA build? It hardly makes any difference in terms of DPS unless you're aiming for the top tier DPS ranks and it's considerably easier to learn and play.

CompM4s

You can honestly do 90% of content without weaving... eso has been more than generous with accommodating elders and people with disabilities. That final 10% of content; caters to the more skillful gamers, which alot of young/ non-disabled people still cant complete. There has to be the top tier to keep the game alive.