Am I honestly the only one thinking someone's exploiting whenver they say their build is "secret"?

Nyladreas

As someone who has been playing this game fairly for the past 6 years there is probably not a single set combination in the game that I've not tried and am familiar with, however I often still run into people that do stuff I cannot explain, and whenever asked they simply respond their builds are secret and quite often follow it with an ingame block/ignore.

No offense to anybody intended, it really just instantly makes me think "must be an exploit of some sort". Because why else would they not share this information and then block me for asking? I myself have known of set combos that worked together unintentionally and their resulting damage/healing went through the roof and normal limits. There are in fact still sets like that in-game. And from top of my head I could name two combinations of those.

Am I the only one who thinks like this? Am I just labeling these people wrong? What gives?

jahaposada

What are the two combinations that work together unintentionally and their resulting damage/healing goes through the roof and normal limits?

Thanks for sharing this information and not putting me on ignore!

Nyladreas

jahaposada wrote: »

What are the two combinations that work together unintentionally and their resulting damage/healing goes through the roof and normal limits?

Thanks for sharing this information and not putting me on ignore!

Why would I openly tell anybody about that if I'm the one who stands against exploiting in the first place? Such sets have been reported to ZOS numerous times btw. So it wouldn't be a good idea to use them even if I told you.

Rhaegar75

I agree with you...either that or something awfully cheesy

jahaposada

Nyladreas wrote: »

jahaposada wrote: »

What are the two combinations that work together unintentionally and their resulting damage/healing goes through the roof and normal limits?

Thanks for sharing this information and not putting me on ignore!

Why would I openly tell anybody about that if I'm the one who stands against exploiting in the first place? Such sets have been reported to ZOS numerous times btw. So it wouldn't be a good idea to use them even if I told you.

Maybe if the combinations were publicly posted and everyone started using them action would be taken. But you keep your knowledge to yourself while condemning others for not sharing information with you. #buildpolice

(I don't really care much about such things, I just found your stance to be somewhat contradictory)

jahaposada

And to actually answer your question, yes, it seems like they're hiding something. In the competitive environment of online games, it's commonplace. I know things, you know things...ain't nobody talking.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Well, it's hard to draw a line between exploit and creativity. Since you are a long term player I'm sure you remember things like ground oils, reducing batswarm cost till you could have it active all the time when fighting outnumbered, caltrops counting as melee direct damage and triggering certain passives a lot, being able to teleport to the shadow image of an allied nb, being able to "mount jump" onto aleswell outer walls.
Are those all exploits or just creative use of game mechanics?
I mean, sure, there were also obvious exploits where you could do something that the game description clearly stated you can't do. But considering how little information we get from zos ingame about how things work, I'd say when something works somewhat like the description states and the devs just didn't think that you would combine a some medium armour and a lightning staff (just as random example^^) I don't mind if someone enjoys a few months of power as a result of his creativity untill zos decides they don't want things to work that way.

Wing

ever sense it became a know fact that cheat engine does / did in fact work with ESO, despite at the time all the leet PvPers saying the classic *no exploits, no cheese, get gud, etc.*

the trust is broken

i have never once sense been able to fight with anything above ~80% faith that my opponents are not cheating, and that drops even more when you run into the same couple people that despite being limited to the exact same CP and same ~19 sets they seem to just not die and kill anyone.

been here sense beta, sat through quite a few people who claimed they were on the up and up who are no longer with us because they were perma banned for exploiting.

Nyladreas

Wing wrote: »

ever sense it became a know fact that cheat engine does / did in fact work with ESO, despite at the time all the leet PvPers saying the classic *no exploits, no cheese, get gud, etc.*

the trust is broken

i have never once sense been able to fight with anything above ~80% faith that my opponents are not cheating, and that drops even more when you run into the same couple people that despite being limited to the exact same CP and same ~19 sets they seem to just not die and kill anyone.

been here sense beta, sat through quite a few people who claimed they were on the up and up who are no longer with us because they were perma banned for exploiting.

This is also a part of why I never trust people. It's just... Strange to me.

FantasticFreddie

Wing wrote: »

ever sense it became a know fact that cheat engine does / did in fact work with ESO, despite at the time all the leet PvPers saying the classic *no exploits, no cheese, get gud, etc.*

the trust is broken

i have never once sense been able to fight with anything above ~80% faith that my opponents are not cheating, and that drops even more when you run into the same couple people that despite being limited to the exact same CP and same ~19 sets they seem to just not die and kill anyone.

been here sense beta, sat through quite a few people who claimed they were on the up and up who are no longer with us because they were perma banned for exploiting.

First of all, it's not 19 sets.
There are still sets that have two 5 piece set bonuses, where 1 bonus still works, you can combine 2-4 piece set bonuses and mix and match to create all sorts of funky stuff.
So, saying you think someone is hacking because you don't understand their build, still comes across poorly

Wing

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

ever sense it became a know fact that cheat engine does / did in fact work with ESO, despite at the time all the leet PvPers saying the classic *no exploits, no cheese, get gud, etc.*

the trust is broken

i have never once sense been able to fight with anything above ~80% faith that my opponents are not cheating, and that drops even more when you run into the same couple people that despite being limited to the exact same CP and same ~19 sets they seem to just not die and kill anyone.

been here sense beta, sat through quite a few people who claimed they were on the up and up who are no longer with us because they were perma banned for exploiting.

First of all, it's not 19 sets.
There are still sets that have two 5 piece set bonuses, where 1 bonus still works, you can combine 2-4 piece set bonuses and mix and match to create all sorts of funky stuff.
So, saying you think someone is hacking because you don't understand their build, still comes across poorly

sorry not sorry

literally watching people defend themselves time after time and go so far as to literally falsify dev statements in personal emails as a result of being reported for hacking.

and then get outed for falsifying said emails as well as banned for (you guessed it) hacking.


this is not paranoia, this is fact, and a couple players got perma banned exposing said hacks and posting vids all over so that could no longer be denied, as ZOS statements up to that point were the same as players: "hacks dont exist"

it took a couple players no clip flying around cyrodil (not running fast, flying, in the air, hovering above keeps) with infinite resources spamming meteor ults like light attacks at everyone over the course of a holiday break for ZOS to actually admit that there were hacks and be a little more proactive in dealing with them.


to this day its a widely known rumor that you can in fact still use things like cheat engine or other 3rd party hacks to modify your stats as long as your not *too outrageous with the values.

Waffennacht

Things I've seen

First is straight up cheats:

Cheat engine messing with in game probability (shuffle dodge)
Unlimited meteor casts
Flying

Exploits:
Multiple Sorc Pet summons
Hurricane + Sets and Abilities not functioning properly
Sets without cooldowns
Double Arrow NB
Eternal Hunt Rune under AoE

(Actually a ton of these type things)

However, the straight up cheats is rare now

Also ZoS has horrible coding it seems; wouldnt be surprised if some procs still function

INe_Saninus

Alright... I'm not saying that players aren't cheating.
....and I'm just a console peasant. You guys on PC have real issues with that.

*BUT, I wouldn't want to share my current Stam DK build.

I'm 100% sure it's not that original.

It's just a slightly unique combination of stat sets (w/ proc conditions), food, and skills that works for me.
It's a little off meta. That's all.

Honestly, one big reason is I don't want the food I use to blow up in price if a lot of people start using it.

I'm not even sure if others would have success with it.

...but it's my build.

Won't be able to use it come Tuesday anyway soooo whatever I guess. Lol

Belegnole

Competitive people don't share because they don't want to lose the edge over other people.

Cheaters don't share because they don't want to get busted.

However, if you just asked someone what their build was and they wouldn't tell you. You'd just be assuming if you decided to judge them.

This game has good and bad players. It had and still has hacks and cheats. It has good and bad game design. It definitely has some broken code. Some of the people who cheated and got caught got banned, while others are still playing. Many of the good honest players keep getting accused of cheating and well they're just not.

At a certain level of game play people minmax. Someone who minmaxes is going to use what works. They're going to figure out the tricks and how to maximize everything. Then there going to get real good at it. Of course at that point those that are getting their backsides handed to them will make winey comments regarding cheese or hacks. It's sort of sad really....

WhyEvenTry

I totally agree.

Anyone that kills me and won't share their build has to be cheating/exploiting.

LuxanQualta

If you asked me what my build is for a character, I might tell you that you should go to a build web site because I am not an expert on builds or I might just ignore you. My build is what works for me and not necessarily for anyone else. I don't want to defend it, argue about it, explain it, etc. It is not about hiding anything untoward, it is about wanting to play the game and not spend time yammering about builds when I am burning an XP scroll, trying to get stuff done before reset, etc.

Explaining a build is not trivial - you have to consider everything that goes into it. So when you ask a person to explain their build, you are asking for a time commitment to explain with either a lot of voice or a lot of text chat.

Now if you asked what was that thing you just did with your bow that caused the pulsing green flashes toward the enemy, I would be happy to answer that it was a morph of the Bow ulti rapid fire and go about my business because it doesn't take much time to answer that question.

Sure there may be some folks that don't want to share because they are competitive or for nefarious reasons, but don't jump to conclusions.

Pauls

Because they put effort and dont want to share results just because you've asked them to? If 'there is probably not a single set combination in the game that I've not tried and am familiar with" is true, you can figure it out yourself, no conspiracy needed

sunshineflame

"buy my build" - pigeon the happy

Dunning_Kruger

Players that are your betters don’t want to share a strong build because they don’t want to be dogged down by frothing zerglings in their own build.

tsaescishoeshiner

Someone reported me in IC because they thought I was using macros, when I was just ... light attack weaving lol. The idea that someone can know every set and skill combo that's possible in the game and plays so perfectly that anyone who surprises them is cheating is highly suspect to me.

Also there are just a lot of people who don't want to share builds or talk to strangers? It's common in competitive games for people to guard their strategies, and definitely not unheard of for someone to feel like keeping their build private for a lot of reasons, most of which aren't suspicious.

Some people are also bad-mannered, socially anxious, or just plain anti-social, and would block someone who messages them. Sometimes strangers in PvP ask a question all nice at first and then talk down to you or accuse you of cheating. Given that OP came to the forums to do just that, the blockers might have saved themselves some drama.

nesakinter

Bro, a PvP guildmate who used to share 1vX videos in the forums told me you whispered them asking for their build saying you were tired of getting stomped. So I call BS on tried every set combination under sun.

SshadowSscale

Honestly I run a lot of weird wacky off meta builds and everytime someone asked what I was using after I killed them they respond with something like "no way can you kill me with a bad build like that one reported for hacking noob l2p and gitgud "..... or something in that line.... at some point it gets boring so I just decided not to share my builds with people anymore because one gets tired of hearing stuff like hacker and bad build even though I am not hacking and I enjoy whatever I am running at the time....

Udrath

People were trying to keep the alessian order builds a “secret”. They didn’t want it to get nerfed I believe. It did get nerfed though.

Some players are gonna min/max every patch, while some like myself are gonna wear the same gear the entire chapter cause I can’t play a ton. I try to not change my gear at all. If it works, it’s good to go until its useless.

Min/maxer and FOTM players are gonna constantly switch to the OP builds and not share them until they find the next cool thing. These are players that probably play proably over 12hours a day, not cheaters, just good at adapting to different play styles and have a lot of gold and time to farm.

If they don’t wanna share, it’s cause they know it’s probably over performing and they wanna have fun for a while longer IMO

Kory

What's my build?

....Wouldn't you like to know
goodbye

wheem_ESO

Some people might be refusing to say what their build is because they're exploiting in some fashion, but there are other reasons as well. Sometimes it's just players using something that's plain overpowered and wanting to avoid getting it on ZOS' nerf-radar. Other times it's just the silly notion that a PvP build in the Elder Scrolls Online is akin to some kind of super important secret that can't possibly be allowed to get out, lest it jeopardize their homeland's national security.

Aliyavana

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Players that are your betters don’t want to share a strong build because they don’t want to be dogged down by frothing zerglings in their own build.

This.

vesselwiththepestle

Well, there are some builds like the venom-seducer-build or the hurricane-unfathomable-darkness-build which are more or less kept secret for a reason. Some are just really strong and it might take some time, until it becomes common knowledge, like Daugrkin Grip on Stamsorc or Prisoner's Rags on Werewolf.

I usually don't ask other player's for their builds except friends I do pvp with together. Those don't mind sharing. Often players are eager to share and explain their build. If some enemy who I killed would ask me for my build, I wouldn't share it either. However, maybe players who are saying their build is secret just want to tease?

GreenHere

I'm with the others who say it's unfair to assume foul play just because someone declines to share their build with you.

If I were asked, and weren't pressed for time or otherwise not-in-a-chatty-mood for whatever reason, I'd tell you my sets/skills/whatever you wanted to know. But that's me.

Not everyone wants to spend time chatting with strangers when they signed up to curb stomp enemies. They're in PvP for the combat, presumably. You're not entitled to their build, their time spent discussing it with you, or anything along those lines.

If you want to know what killed you and the opponent won't tell you, pay close attention to the visuals you can't identify and describe them clearly in /zone chat; 9 times out of 10 folks can tell you what set or skill you saw pretty easily. The only sets I'm aware of with no visual effects at all are generally stat sets (and even a good portion of those have vfx) -- which means you probably just got outplayed and/or outnumbered.

There's a lot less cheaters than people seem to think, imo. Most cheaters will fall into one of two categories: blatant and obvious (infinite ultimates, god-like powers, etc.) & subtle and hard-to-catch (boosting their regen/damage by modest amounts, just enough to get an edge). Blatant cheaters don't care about hiding anything, obviously, and the sneakier ones are usually all-too-happy to disclose the sets they use to allay suspicion. These are generalizations, but I'd wager most of the people who "hide" their builds from you just don't want to talk about them for legitimate reasons. Fear of nerfs, surges/plunges in pricing, lack of time/desire to type a bunch in chat, et cetera.

Moonsorrow

Nyladreas wrote: »

As someone who has been playing this game fairly for the past 6 years there is probably not a single set combination in the game that I've not tried and am familiar with, however I often still run into people that do stuff I cannot explain, and whenever asked they simply respond their builds are secret and quite often follow it with an ingame block/ignore.

No offense to anybody intended, it really just instantly makes me think "must be an exploit of some sort". Because why else would they not share this information and then block me for asking? I myself have known of set combos that worked together unintentionally and their resulting damage/healing went through the roof and normal limits. There are in fact still sets like that in-game. And from top of my head I could name two combinations of those.

Am I the only one who thinks like this? Am I just labeling these people wrong? What gives?

Sharing builds can get tiresome, you end up having to spend a lot of time explaining gear/skills/buffs/mundus, and.. the one asking build is not the only one, imagine repeating same things all day instead of just playing the game.

Same as teaching new players to play.. can do that for a time, but answering to same things and mechanical basics gets tiresome for most after many years. Easier to just point them to some content creators page/vids than trying to explain basics.

Most people who ask for builds got other things than their builds going wrong for them in pvp to be honest. Most are not ready to hear that tho. So it can end in drama. People who maybe do like 1 attack in 3 seconds, slow reactions and slow to break-free and so on, who panic under pressure do not get same benefit from the gear you share with them anyways. It is what it is. You just end up spending own time to explain same old things again.

Nebula_DooM

Maybe it's because ppl spend countless hours testing between different sets/skills/enchants/mundus'/cp/classes/races about what could be better than the build they already have. Rewarding a player a build you spent so long making in a matter of minutes is just diminishing

Emma_Overload

Nyladreas wrote: »

As someone who has been playing this game fairly for the past 6 years there is probably not a single set combination in the game that I've not tried and am familiar with, however I often still run into people that do stuff I cannot explain, and whenever asked they simply respond their builds are secret and quite often follow it with an ingame block/ignore.

No offense to anybody intended, it really just instantly makes me think "must be an exploit of some sort". Because why else would they not share this information and then block me for asking? I myself have known of set combos that worked together unintentionally and their resulting damage/healing went through the roof and normal limits. There are in fact still sets like that in-game. And from top of my head I could name two combinations of those.

Am I the only one who thinks like this? Am I just labeling these people wrong? What gives?

Whenever I hear this, I think their build is normal and boring, but they don't want you to know that because then it raises the question of what they are actually *doing* that makes them so effective. In other words, the cheat is not what they're wearing, but some procedural hack that exploits the game's code.