A language problem on EU

AndlatAndometi

Hi there

So I've noticed somewhat a problem on EU servers (I don't think the same happens on NA, maybe it does but it seems less likely).
As we all know EU has many different countries and many different languages and not everyone speaks or understands English.
Which often (at least for me) leads to running random dungeons with players that I try to communicate with to explain mechanics etc, but they don't understand me.
Which then often results in unnecessary death or even wipes.
Could there please be a fix for this or something? A checklist with languages one speaks and then matching them with people that speak the same languages?
Cause it does kinda ruin the fun though, when you attempt to be helpful to others and then there's a language border.

And before people start yelling at me for some reason, no I'm not a native English speaker.

Daemons_Bane

Would make a dungeon queue really really REALLY long..

Cirantille

This is basically segregating people and it is dangerous for plenty of reasons.

Nyladreas

This probably explains my level of feeling isolated and the level of asocial behavior I witness in the game.

When I still lived in Canada and played NA i would communicate with just about anybody. Here on EU it's like I'm trying to talk to NPCs 90%of time...

And I really wonder WHY... I played WoW since launch on EU and EVERYONE was trying to communicate in English regardless of their nationality. They would very often speak their language too but would also at least try. (Well everyone except Russians for some reason. My guess is their education system and schools were crap and they just didn't really know English. I'm a slav and know russian so that was still fine in the end.)

It's so strange to me honestly. Just why? Especially nowadays when I hear young people all speak English on regular basis I have to ask myself.

jm42

I don't think that it can be fixed somehow. But as to speak about language, I REALLY want guild traders to search items both in language of the client and EN, because my keyboard is on EN most of the time because of guild chats and I'm tired to switch language all the time and when I firget and write long sentence like jdkfhdklsjhfksdahcfosaihcfopsidjf and have to rewrite

AndlatAndometi

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Would make a dungeon queue really really REALLY long..

Would give them a reason to actually learn English though, which will benefit them in the future!
They could also just implement the checklist thing for dlc dungeons since those require mechanics.
Having any old dungeon with people that don't speak English, no problem we just rush through. But as soon as there's any complications it's kind of a fuster cluck.
Cause you know "Communication is key to victory"

Cirantille wrote: »

This is basically segregating people and it is dangerous for plenty of reasons.

Even though it would indeed, keep in mind other MMO's do this by default, having servers for different nationalities. ESO just smashed them all together, And yes I can see the dangerous aspect of it aswell to a degree.
It's still a problem that needs solving imo, perhaps through other means.

Lysette

Localization is already a hurdle, because it tends to localize as well location and item names and it is hard to talk to someone about things, when they do not even have the same naming for locations and items. We need more integration not less - in Second Life people can use translators, which seem to be based on google translate and help people of different languages to talk to each other - I wonder if something like that could eventually be provided by ZOS integrated into the chat box.

Veles

It is a very fine line to make a restriction on a linguistic basis. In the world, where often inadvertently spoken mention of a completely innocent thing can result in the absurd anger of the artificially heated masses. And you suggest a language limitation. This will never happen. Learn languages, upgrade your brain.

RedMuse

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

This is basically segregating people and it is dangerous for plenty of reasons.

Even though it would indeed, keep in mind other MMO's do this by default, having servers for different nationalities. ESO just smashed them all together, And yes I can see the dangerous aspect of it aswell to a degree.
It's still a problem that needs solving imo, perhaps through other means.

Except there isn't servers for different nationalities, there are serversfor different languages which is something entirely different.

And why are you demanding that people learn English? If you want to communicate so much what exactly is preventing you from learning German, French, Polish ect? So that you might communicate with them. You are aggressively dismissive and hateful towards someone because you can't be bothered to learn the basic of their language but instead demand they learn yours.

Cirantille

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Would make a dungeon queue really really REALLY long..

Would give them a reason to actually learn English though, which will benefit them in the future!
They could also just implement the checklist thing for dlc dungeons since those require mechanics.
Having any old dungeon with people that don't speak English, no problem we just rush through. But as soon as there's any complications it's kind of a fuster cluck.
Cause you know "Communication is key to victory"

Cirantille wrote: »

This is basically segregating people and it is dangerous for plenty of reasons.

Even though it would indeed, keep in mind other MMO's do this by default, having servers for different nationalities. ESO just smashed them all together, And yes I can see the dangerous aspect of it aswell to a degree.
It's still a problem that needs solving imo, perhaps through other means.

What I like about EU server is the multiculturality, I feel more welcomed in an environment where everyone is well, foreigner like me

I find it extremely boring to only hang out with my countrymen, there is a huge variety out there and I wouldn't choose to be with the thing I grow up and lived in already

I just came across a few instances where the other person did not speak more than a few words

I can only remember once I ran with 3 Russians who did not speak English, I just pointed the quest marker place and they got I needed to do quest, they had some great dps

But even then we were able to get along with emotes, movements like LA to point, roll dodge to show what needs to be done etc

Also google translate has improved a lot, it is not as bad as it was, you can also add "(translated by google translate" at the end (in the target language) - that is what I do) so even if there is an oddity in the sentence it would make them understand it was translated

AndlatAndometi

Cirantille wrote: »

This is basically segregating people and it is dangerous for plenty of reasons.

Except there isn't servers for different nationalities, there are serversfor different languages which is something entirely different.

And why are you demanding that people learn English? If you want to communicate so much what exactly is preventing you from learning German, French, Polish ect? So that you might communicate with them. You are aggressively dismissive and hateful towards someone because you can't be bothered to learn the basic of their language but instead demand they learn yours.[/quote]

mate you learned the important part of the very first post, i'm not even english. i learned english, why can't they do that effort?

AndlatAndometi

woops that was a bad edit

Gythral

Most MMOs there's a Korean server & maybe one for the 'west', rare to find many more than that 'officailly'with the exception of a few that have EU servers & support the 'have to languages'(3 probably soon to be 2)

but in the Dawn of MMOs no-one thought anything of the languages - you coped with what you got

AndlatAndometi

Veles wrote: »

It is a very fine line to make a restriction on a linguistic basis. In the world, where often inadvertently spoken mention of a completely innocent thing can result in the absurd anger of the artificially heated masses. And you suggest a language limitation. This will never happen. Learn languages, upgrade your brain.

i speak about 3 languages and can read/understand about 4 relatively fluently/with ease. I don't think I'm the problem in this case... Or am i supposed to learn 26 languages to comfort the people that are too lazy to learn 1? I don't see the logic in that.

Chips_Ahoy

When I play at dawn it is very common to find myself in the dungeons with people who write in Cyrillic, I do not understand anything they say, but we are not building a rocket.

Someone dies is resurrected and we move on.

Yes, sometimes we wipe, it is part of the game, it is part of the mmo, it would be very boring if everything were perfect.

lolo_01b16_ESO

How would you make sure people only queue for a language they know?
I mean, there are already many people who select the role that gets them fastest queue times, not the one that they plan to play. I'm sure many would just select all languages no matter that they speak.

Additionally, is the language really an issue that needs to be solved? In my experience language is one of the rarest reasons why a group falls apart. Usually it's either low dps, no tank in a dungeon that requires a tank or people who are unable to move out of red circles.

Gythral

lol FFXIV almost everyone queues for all availiable languages - and almost all group activities are completed with few issues!

AndlatAndometi

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How would you make sure people only queue for a language they know?
I mean, there are already many people who select the role that gets them fastest queue times, not the one that they plan to play. I'm sure many would just select all languages no matter that they speak.

Additionally, is the language really an issue that needs to be solved? In my experience language is one of the rarest reasons why a group falls apart. Usually it's either low dps, no tank in a dungeon that requires a tank or people who are unable to move out of red circles.

The Language checklist was just an idea really (a *** one I know)
But someone else came out with a better solution, like a translator which is imo a better idea. no need to divide and we can communicate.

Also "People who are unable to move out of red circles." guess what happened yesterday in a group where no one apart from me spoke English... I tried telling him/her, I gestured to move. Did they move? nope. Did I have to resurrect them 12 times, yup. Do I feel like a fool for ressing them that much, I sure do.

Scardan

Nyladreas wrote: »

This probably explains my level of feeling isolated and the level of asocial behavior I witness in the game.

When I still lived in Canada and played NA i would communicate with just about anybody. Here on EU it's like I'm trying to talk to NPCs 90%of time...

And I really wonder WHY... I played WoW since launch on EU and EVERYONE was trying to communicate in English regardless of their nationality. They would very often speak their language too but would also at least try. (Well everyone except Russians for some reason. My guess is their education system and schools were crap and they just didn't really know English. I'm a slav and know russian so that was still fine in the end.)

It's so strange to me honestly. Just why? Especially nowadays when I hear young people all speak English on regular basis I have to ask myself.

Your guess about russian education system is wrong. I was educated in Russia and in Germany, Germany's one is far worse. FAR WORSE. Germans even segregate the children by their IQ into better and worser schools, with all educative stuff and less educative stuff. And also in Russia we had a choice between French, English and German, so it's not a fact that English was taught to everyone. Someone just went to another language course.
Foreign languages tend to be forgotten without proper practice and you can play on a European server without knowing English at all.

Gythral

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How would you make sure people only queue for a language they know?
I mean, there are already many people who select the role that gets them fastest queue times, not the one that they plan to play. I'm sure many would just select all languages no matter that they speak.

Additionally, is the language really an issue that needs to be solved? In my experience language is one of the rarest reasons why a group falls apart. Usually it's either low dps, no tank in a dungeon that requires a tank or people who are unable to move out of red circles.

The Language checklist was just an idea really (a *** one I know)
But someone else came out with a better solution, like a translator which is imo a better idea. no need to divide and we can communicate.

Also "People who are unable to move out of red circles." guess what happened yesterday in a group where no one apart from me spoke English... I tried telling him/her, I gestured to move. Did they move? nope. Did I have to resurrect them 12 times, yup. Do I feel like a fool for ressing them that much, I sure do.

Sounds more like a 'game playing' barrier than a language one...

dominguero96

Bad news mate. As a great number americans they don't care about other languages + ZoS have proven to be more greedy than other MMO companies.

If they have never shown interest in translating the game into the second most native spoken language well..don't expect them to address the languages differences.

AndlatAndometi

dominguero96 wrote: »

Bad news mate. As a great number americans they don't care about other languages + ZoS have proven to be more greedy than other MMO companies.

If they have never shown interest in translating the game into the second most native spoken language well..don't expect them to address the languages differences.

Then the question I ask myself everytime, why do we the players accept this?

Danikat

I think this is another problem which could be solved by having a system where players advertise their group and then other players choose one to join, instead of just being dumped into any group with a space.

If the language is important you can specify, or just write the description in that language so anyone who doesn't know it will not understand what you're doing and won't join. If language doesn't matter to you then you don't specify and let anyone join.

Varana

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Also "People who are unable to move out of red circles." guess what happened yesterday in a group where no one apart from me spoke English... I tried telling him/her, I gestured to move. Did they move? nope. Did I have to resurrect them 12 times, yup. Do I feel like a fool for ressing them that much, I sure do.

Not standing in red has absolutely nothing to do with language. Being able to explain is helpful for poorly telegraphed attacks, but we say "standing in red" precisely because it's a non-verbal cue that is independent of language.

madrab73

Maybe join a guild and run dungeons with friends?

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Scardan wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

This probably explains my level of feeling isolated and the level of asocial behavior I witness in the game.

When I still lived in Canada and played NA i would communicate with just about anybody. Here on EU it's like I'm trying to talk to NPCs 90%of time...

And I really wonder WHY... I played WoW since launch on EU and EVERYONE was trying to communicate in English regardless of their nationality. They would very often speak their language too but would also at least try. (Well everyone except Russians for some reason. My guess is their education system and schools were crap and they just didn't really know English. I'm a slav and know russian so that was still fine in the end.)

It's so strange to me honestly. Just why? Especially nowadays when I hear young people all speak English on regular basis I have to ask myself.

Your guess about russian education system is wrong. I was educated in Russia and in Germany, Germany's one is far worse. FAR WORSE. Germans even segregate the children by their IQ into better and worser schools, with all educative stuff and less educative stuff. And also in Russia we had a choice between French, English and German, so it's not a fact that English was taught to everyone. Someone just went to another language course.
Foreign languages tend to be forgotten without proper practice and you can play on a European server without knowing English at all.

And when was this?

Nowa133

Well, THERE'S a huge chunck of other cultures in NA as well. All the south america is there, >.>. Some asians too. The thing is, most of them at least know the basics of how to speak english. Or at least try. Those who don't know even that usually keep to themselves. Even a japanese i met by chance while grinding used google translator to talk to me in english, and i'm not even a native english speaker myself.

AlextheMuspel

RedMuse wrote: »

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

This is basically segregating people and it is dangerous for plenty of reasons.

Even though it would indeed, keep in mind other MMO's do this by default, having servers for different nationalities. ESO just smashed them all together, And yes I can see the dangerous aspect of it aswell to a degree.
It's still a problem that needs solving imo, perhaps through other means.

Except there isn't servers for different nationalities, there are serversfor different languages which is something entirely different.

And why are you demanding that people learn English? If you want to communicate so much what exactly is preventing you from learning German, French, Polish ect? So that you might communicate with them. You are aggressively dismissive and hateful towards someone because you can't be bothered to learn the basic of their language but instead demand they learn yours.

English is the easiest language to learn in the world. It’s the closest to a “standard” language around the world bc of how easy it is. One might devote 2-3 times the effort to learn polish, russian, or even 5 times the effort when it comes to Chinese, Japanese etc. There’s a reason why English is so popular in a post-colonial world.

Lugaldu

Scardan wrote: »

I was educated in Russia and in Germany, Germany's one is far worse. FAR WORSE. Germans even segregate the children by their IQ into better and worser schools, with all educative stuff and less educative stuff. And also in Russia we had a choice between French, English and German, so it's not a fact that English was taught to everyone. Someone just went to another language course.

That is offtopic, but what you write about German schools is total nonsense. You have the choice of a school that suits your abilities and/or your future career aspirations (e.g.whether you want to study or not), but no one is forced anywhere.

Magdalina

Oooo that's one of pet peeves of mine. As someone for whom English is not the first language, I personally think it's highly disrespectful to queue for challenging group activities with randoms without speaking a common language (which, in modern world, is generally agreed to be English) or at least knowing the place inside out so you don't really need to speak (of course, you still might miss on someone looking for particular items or needing quest or whatever, but at least you'll be able to fulfill your role in this case). Honestly, there're group activities out there that are impossible without communication, and I have, even on NA, run into people seemingly unable to communicate (some actually mentioned not speaking English after being kicked after multiple failures). Seriously, these are group activities. Can't be part of the group? Don't queue. Want to be part of the group but don't speak English? Find other people that speak your language and run with them, or, well, learn English now that you have some incentive to do so

That said, I'm not sure there's anything to be done about it. A separate queue would likely be too long and people'd just keep queueing for English (as the biggest player pool) even without speaking it. Anything else...well, you can't really have people do a test in English before they're allowed to run a dungeon lol.