New cauldron DLC dungeon: Complete failure of design.

josiahva

So, night before last I played through as tank in this dungeon in vet mode. Neither I nor anyone else in the group had ever set foot in there before. We didn't try any hard modes or anything, just ran it as base vet. I have to say...this dungeon is a huge dissapointment. Its just as bade as Stone Garden. In neither dungeon do you have to actually learn any mechanics or play by them. I have no idea what ANY of the mechs in this dungeon were supposed to be....the only time we had to figure anything out was using the oil as a conductor to free Lyranth from her prison...and thats not even a boss fight really. We did die on the last boss several times....and I am sure there are actual mechanics you are supposed to follow...but we didn't, we just ran from the fire walls and managed to make it through fine.

I am sure its more a challenge with the hard modes and mechanics probably actually matter then....but if mechanics don't matter in a base vet DLC dungeon, then the design of the dungeon is a complete failure in my book. I haven't yet played through the other...but here is hoping they did a better job on that one. This is 2 dungeons DLCs in a row now with at least one terrible dungeon, Stone Garden being the last(yes, I know HM is hard there, but base vet might as well be normal) Castle Thorn is certain not hard, but that's excusable because at least its fun and has a movement theme it carries through the entire dungeon.

Dragonnord

Well, ZOS is in the path of letting casual players complete vet stuff, even hard modes.
 

Xuhora

black drake villa is better by miles, so at least you got that going for you.

we were a little dissapointed as well, not even about the mechs but from the design itself, it feels like a vateshran ripoff mixed with different mobs from differernt dungeons (bloodforge and moongrove fane)

on regards to the mechs:
first boss: cages have to be destroyed, you cant ignore them (well you can but then DD dies)
second boss: tank cannot facetank big AoE, thats good
third: you said it yourself, you have to follow the mechs, otherwise you wont progress
last: you cannot rolldodge or jump the firelanes, so you have to obey to that mechanic. as for the main mechanic with lyranth buff, you can succeed without doing that, you are right.

amm7sb14_ESO

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

Agenericname

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

Xuhora

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Agenericname

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Which dungeon?

josiahva

Xuhora wrote: »

black drake villa is better by miles, so at least you got that going for you.

we were a little dissapointed as well, not even about the mechs but from the design itself, it feels like a vateshran ripoff mixed with different mobs from differernt dungeons (bloodforge and moongrove fane)

on regards to the mechs:
first boss: cages have to be destroyed, you cant ignore them (well you can but then DD dies)
second boss: tank cannot facetank big AoE, thats good
third: you said it yourself, you have to follow the mechs, otherwise you wont progress
last: you cannot rolldodge or jump the firelanes, so you have to obey to that mechanic. as for the main mechanic with lyranth buff, you can succeed without doing that, you are right.

Yeah, I had to get out of the aoe quick, learned that real fast. As for the first boss, I dont even remember any cages, just some slime things I tried chaining and wasn't able to....but the DDs in my group focused them anyway. For the last boss though, the heavy armor speed nerf actually did make me equip the ring of the wild hunt to make it easier on myself...it did seem to be a resource draining fight though, found myself nearly running out of stam a lot, but I can't tell whether that was due to all the changes(was roll dodging a lot) and nerfs to heavy armor or whether it would be such a resource drain anyway.

Daemons_Bane

I like it quite a lot.. feels fun and interesting

Xuhora

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Which dungeon?

black drake villa ^^

there is a hidden boss behind the endboss, if you look around you see a stone thingy similar to the sidebosses, in which you fill the whisps. if you gathered enough the big bad guy will appear with 15mio health and all of the sidebosse come to help him after certain health stages. and the cool thing: you only have limited tries on him, after 5 wipes he walks away and tells you to come back when you are truly ready. i really liked that move, allthough it left the 4 of us pretty baffled

Agenericname

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Which dungeon?

black drake villa ^^

there is a hidden boss behind the endboss, if you look around you see a stone thingy similar to the sidebosses, in which you fill the whisps. if you gathered enough the big bad guy will appear with 15mio health and all of the sidebosse come to help him after certain health stages. and the cool thing: you only have limited tries on him, after 5 wipes he walks away and tells you to come back when you are truly ready. i really liked that move, allthough it left the 4 of us pretty baffled

Nope. Thanks. Got a date tonight now. It was late, we all had to work today, but we will definitely go back now.

Xuhora

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Which dungeon?

black drake villa ^^

there is a hidden boss behind the endboss, if you look around you see a stone thingy similar to the sidebosses, in which you fill the whisps. if you gathered enough the big bad guy will appear with 15mio health and all of the sidebosse come to help him after certain health stages. and the cool thing: you only have limited tries on him, after 5 wipes he walks away and tells you to come back when you are truly ready. i really liked that move, allthough it left the 4 of us pretty baffled

Nope. Thanks. Got a date tonight now. It was late, we all had to work today, but we will definitely go back now.

allright champ, you dont need to brag
have fun

josiahva

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The problem I guess is expectations...I expect DLC dungeons to have more challenge to them than base game dungeons. Call me crazy, but I am paying for the content(either through purchase or through ESO plus) because I am bored with vanilla stuff. Why would I want more vanilla stuff? I am most certainly a casual player myself...I can't and won't schedule time to play a video game....I will not sit there and figure out a way to squeeze every last bit out of a toon so I can get a higher score in some arena or trial. I just play when I want the way that I want to play....and have been doing so since launch....but what I dont want is a re-skinned vanilla dungeon for DLC content. I LIKE it when I go blind into a vet DLC dungeon and am unable to complete it the first time...or the 2nd time...when I actually have to work at a dungeon to finish it. Call me crazy....I guess all that challenge has been transferred to hard modes though....with such a huge gap between non-HM and HM than in non-HM you might as well be playing normal.

Dragonnord

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Which dungeon?

black drake villa ^^

there is a hidden boss behind the endboss, if you look around you see a stone thingy similar to the sidebosses, in which you fill the whisps. if you gathered enough the big bad guy will appear with 15mio health and all of the sidebosse come to help him after certain health stages. and the cool thing: you only have limited tries on him, after 5 wipes he walks away and tells you to come back when you are truly ready. i really liked that move, allthough it left the 4 of us pretty baffled

Nope. Thanks. Got a date tonight now. It was late, we all had to work today, but we will definitely go back now.

allright champ, you dont need to brag
have fun

With "date tonight" he/she meant going to the dungeon, not the type of date you thought.
 

Xuhora

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

but did you do the endboss endboss? because that guy is not a joke either

Which dungeon?

black drake villa ^^

there is a hidden boss behind the endboss, if you look around you see a stone thingy similar to the sidebosses, in which you fill the whisps. if you gathered enough the big bad guy will appear with 15mio health and all of the sidebosse come to help him after certain health stages. and the cool thing: you only have limited tries on him, after 5 wipes he walks away and tells you to come back when you are truly ready. i really liked that move, allthough it left the 4 of us pretty baffled

Nope. Thanks. Got a date tonight now. It was late, we all had to work today, but we will definitely go back now.

allright champ, you dont need to brag
have fun

With "date tonight" he/she meant going to the dungeon, not the type of date you thought.
 

ahhhhh woops, my bad. anyhow, have fun either way

amm7sb14_ESO

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

I like mechanics. I dont like wacky over the top mechanics.

Examples of mechanics i don't like: All the one shots in Moon Hunter Keep, the Auroran boss and the splitting boss in Depths Of Malatar, the boss that keeps coming to life in Lair Of Maarsolek (or basically all of LoM), the boxes over the geysers in Moongrave Fane, the laser room or the mice during the Stonekeeper fight in Frostvault, final fight of Banished Cells 2, Drodda's life gain in Direfrost HM, Velidreth in Cradle of Shadows

Examples of mechanics I do like: The Kiln fight in Unhallowed Grave (maybe my favorite fight in the game, and dungeons overall), the twins in Maw Of Lorkhaj (another favorite fight of mine), dragon fights in Sunspire, Lady Thorn in Castle Thorn, the Twilight in Castle Thorn, Lord Warden in ICP, final boss in Cauldron, basically all of Ruins of Mazzatun

As a tank main, I like mechanics that test my rankings, but I'm not a fan of the over the top one shots, and overwhelming you with mechanics that your resources just can't keep up with. I'm generally happy with the recent dungeon design. Between the 6 dungeons released so far between Greymoor and Blackwood, the only one I don't particularly care for is Icereach.

josiahva

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

I like mechanics. I dont like wacky over the top mechanics.

Examples of mechanics i don't like: All the one shots in Moon Hunter Keep, the Auroran boss and the splitting boss in Depths Of Malatar, the boss that keeps coming to life in Lair Of Maarsolek (or basically all of LoM), the boxes over the geysers in Moongrave Fane, the laser room or the mice during the Stonekeeper fight in Frostvault, final fight of Banished Cells 2, Drodda's life gain in Direfrost HM, Velidreth in Cradle of Shadows

Examples of mechanics I do like: The Kiln fight in Unhallowed Grave (maybe my favorite fight in the game, and dungeons overall), the twins in Maw Of Lorkhaj (another favorite fight of mine), dragon fights in Sunspire, Lady Thorn in Castle Thorn, the Twilight in Castle Thorn, Lord Warden in ICP, final boss in Cauldron, basically all of Ruins of Mazzatun

As a tank main, I like mechanics that test my rankings, but I'm not a fan of the over the top one shots, and overwhelming you with mechanics that your resources just can't keep up with. I'm generally happy with the recent dungeon design. Between the 6 dungeons released so far between Greymoor and Blackwood, the only one I don't particularly care for is Icereach.

I like virtually all the mechanics you dont like. Your definition of "over-the-top" is very subjective. The Clone fight in vDoM is NOT wacky, its a specific test of tank skill in grouping enemies without resorting to a pull....that whole dungeon is a tank skill test...the aurorans are a tank test of resource management. LoM I agree is a slog...its a DPS based dungeon and a good tanking will not affect the outcome of that dungeon much.

MoL twins there really isnt much true tanking to be done...its more of a group co-ordination fight than anything else(the last boss there is a better test of tanking skill). The laser room in vFV is a test of group coordination just like the twins fight in MoL...not sure how you can like one and dislike the other. The mice at the end is goofy though, can't stand that fight myself.

The dragon fights in SS are just not that interesting in my opinion, classic tank and spank fights. Castle Thorn I agree is fun all the way through, I really like the movement theme. vRoM I am surprised you like..I would think that Xal-nur would be an over-the-top mechanic for you.

As for one-shots...I honestly do not mind them at all...they certainly test your skill as a tank...that stupid little buckler you wear on your arm is not going to stop a hulking werewolf smashing you right into the ground, and I am glad that its acknowledged that just because you wear a bunch of armor doesn't mean you can take a direct hit from a freight train. Not every attack can be ignored...nor should they be able to be ignored.

Grandchamp1989

We completed HM last night, I actually like the dungeon.

Difficulty wise it's more on par with WGT than the more recent Vet DLC which is a nice surprise honestly.

zaria

Xuhora wrote: »

black drake villa is better by miles, so at least you got that going for you.

we were a little dissapointed as well, not even about the mechs but from the design itself, it feels like a vateshran ripoff mixed with different mobs from differernt dungeons (bloodforge and moongrove fane)

on regards to the mechs:
first boss: cages have to be destroyed, you cant ignore them (well you can but then DD dies)
second boss: tank cannot facetank big AoE, thats good
third: you said it yourself, you have to follow the mechs, otherwise you wont progress
last: you cannot rolldodge or jump the firelanes, so you have to obey to that mechanic. as for the main mechanic with lyranth buff, you can succeed without doing that, you are right.

Did Black Drake villa today in vet and it was an fun one, only my second time in it but rest of group who i tend to do harder dungeons with had farmed it in normal, first time in vet for all, we did the 3 secret bosses and the secret end boss who was an challenge but we made it on 5th try.
We tried the first boss on HM but wiped 3-4 times and cleared in standard first try, wiped a bit on last boss.

Now the same group wiped plenty of time in normal on the last boss in cauldron but rest of group probably know the mechanic now so need to look at guides before I join in vet
Now the cauldron is short for an DLC. Black Drake villa is long if you do the extra bosses.
I guess we get easier DLC dungeons because they had an series of ones like Frostvault with an low completion rate.

Agenericname

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. Cauldron immediately is one of my favorite dungeons. I'm not a fan of the wacky, over the top mechanics. I really enjoyed both of the new dungeons, and look forward to having them in my dungeon rotation frequently.

But hey, I guess that makes me a casual, what with my 2000 hours since switching my game to Steam last year, and more hours on top of that since beta.

The mechanics are what keep it from just a straight up DPS party. They're not always a bad thing.

To me it felt a little bland. Not awful, just kinda bland.

I liked Black Drake Villa more. We did the side bosses and HMs to have the full experience.

I like mechanics. I dont like wacky over the top mechanics.

Examples of mechanics i don't like: All the one shots in Moon Hunter Keep, the Auroran boss and the splitting boss in Depths Of Malatar, the boss that keeps coming to life in Lair Of Maarsolek (or basically all of LoM), the boxes over the geysers in Moongrave Fane, the laser room or the mice during the Stonekeeper fight in Frostvault, final fight of Banished Cells 2, Drodda's life gain in Direfrost HM, Velidreth in Cradle of Shadows

Examples of mechanics I do like: The Kiln fight in Unhallowed Grave (maybe my favorite fight in the game, and dungeons overall), the twins in Maw Of Lorkhaj (another favorite fight of mine), dragon fights in Sunspire, Lady Thorn in Castle Thorn, the Twilight in Castle Thorn, Lord Warden in ICP, final boss in Cauldron, basically all of Ruins of Mazzatun

As a tank main, I like mechanics that test my rankings, but I'm not a fan of the over the top one shots, and overwhelming you with mechanics that your resources just can't keep up with. I'm generally happy with the recent dungeon design. Between the 6 dungeons released so far between Greymoor and Blackwood, the only one I don't particularly care for is Icereach.

Its strange that MHK made your list. Its one of those dungeons thats very focused around the tank's role.

Outside of HM I can only think of 4 true one-shots in there, as in designed to kill any player for not obeying the mechanics. The execute at the first boss. Mylenne's pin if not interupted, being bubbled by the archivist, and not being on the correct pad during sigil phase.

As a rule I dont mind one-shots. It keeps the fights from being a pure DPS affair.

The behemoths and beserkers wont kill me under normal circumstances. They are a threat to the DDs and healer, but they have a tank to take the brunt and turn them. If anything it reinforces the tank's role, which is good IMO. Since the patch I have personally watched a DD eat the feral slam of the behemoth and live (sub 810CP player).

However, to be fair, I like all of them, being turned into a skeever being my least favorite. Of all the MMO's Ive played, the dungeons in ESO are probably my favorite group content. I think they do a really good job with them overall.

Contaminate

The Cauldron is definitely the easiest DLC dungeon I’ve ever run. I got the trifecta the first day I played after the patch (3rd ever run of the place), with a group of people who’d only run a couple times before, and one who never had, and I’d also gone in mostly blind after 5 minutes looking over alcast’s guide.

The majority of the mechanics are completely neutralized a group with two mag dps. For the ogrim fight, the typical AoE mag damage will knock the cage and the bloblets out. As the only mechanics are “kill the cage” and “don’t let him eat the blob”, it’s a total parse fight.

The lady that spawns ground traps only had a handful of hard hitting abilities, only one of which is dangerous to dps that know to watch the ground. The only dangerous thing is solved with the healer running Crushing Shock.

The cage is just big add waves. It’s kinda fun competing with your teammates to get to the goop first, but there’s no mechanics in the actual fighting.

Final boss is mag dps dream, there is actually an important mechanic that’s entirely ignorable with two high AoE mag dds. The pillars will spawn adds if you don’t kill them! These adds can be anything from little fire fiends to massive deadroths, and these things can and will eat the stam of your tank if left alive. But with the AoE from mag dds, these pillars die without any need to focus them. Lyranth’s blessing is supposed to be used to light-attack-pop those pillars, which I only got to learn because my second trifecta run of the place with with two stam dps.

Edit: I straight up forgot that the iron atronach is supposed to be a boss fight lmao. It’s a parser

furiouslog

I liked the dungeon, but everything up to the last two bosses were pretty easy. We struggled for a bit with the final boss as we staggered through learning the mechanics, but we also had a stamplar, so that might be part of it. Not a lot of AOE on the ground.