2.0 never changed, which is odd.

SeaArcanist

during the PTS, literaly no aspect of champ 2.0 changed. only glitches or typos were corrected.. im sure alot of players gave addiquite feedback. but literaly none of the champ passives or the system itself changed. i highly doubt everyone thought it was perfect (obviously, i mean look at the in game chat/forums). So why was it never changed? because they NEVER PLANNED TO CHANGE IT. meaning our feedback was useless to some extent.

they didnt care about our feedback on if the system works. they just wanted us to fix typoes and discover errors..

literaly thats kinda betrayal to your community guys. do our opinions mean nothing anymore? it's even evident in the patches notes of PTS leading up to release.. they were 90% glitch fixes and error fixes.. there was like absolutly nothing changed about champ 2.0.

this also tells me they were going to release the 2.0 system regardless of if it worked or not. they never touched it during PTS.

EDIT: (i had to quote myself and add this in here as an example of the pure neglect ZOS gave..)

so uk how alessians got nerfed because "too much hp regen"... then they went ahead and added a champ passive that lets ya accumulate 1,500 hp regen jsut like alessians..

"good news guys! alessians is nerfed down to 1,300 to help balance out the ease of availability for hp regen... BUT we also added a way to stack on 1,500 hp regen!

im sorry but those two changes contradict eachother, and thats just one example of for lack of a better word "ignorance" the devs tact onto champ 2.0. im also certian MANY people including myself complained about that one specific passive and how it needed toned down. was it? NOPE.

and that is a perfect example of pure PRIDE/ignorance. devs can be proud of their wrk, dont get me wrong. and i appreciate the time they spend working on their work.. but my dudes, if it doesnt work then. .IT DOESNT WORK. Why keep it? pride or laziness. thoe are the only two answers. either too prideful to change, or too lazy to fix.

Mindcr0w

ZOS has supposedly been working on cp 2.0 for two years, and is notoriously bad about doing anything with player feedback on even much smaller changes.

What did you really expect?

SeaArcanist

Mindcr0w wrote: »

ZOS has supposedly been working on cp 2.0 for two years, and is notoriously bad about doing anything with player feedback on even much smaller changes.

What did you really expect?

i totally agree, my main concern is why ZOS tricks the community this way. "join pts, give feedback!". leaving out the part "we're only taking feedback we like! not giving what the community wants".

i mean they never Said or stated they would take our feedback.. but thats kinda a rule of like leaving tips. nobody tells ya to leave a tip, it's jsut expected or somthing you know you do.

this was like us waitting zos's dinner table. and they didnt tip us. it wasnt implied they would, but it's a universally accepted opinion that they should.

UtopianWarrior88

The amount of points into trees were changed and there were adjustments made to the exp curve. What would you like to have seen changed? Keep in mind that a goal was to reduce DPS - so CPs that give more DPS would never change anyway.

MasterSpatula

Pride. Pure, vain pride. Same thing we saw when the Morrowind sustain changes happened, where they claimed they were trying to "raise the floor and lower the ceiling," and players pointed that it was going to lower the floor and raise the ceiling, showed in detail why this would happen, and reported it happening themselves.

And ZOS has not, to this day, even so much as acknowledged having received this feedback at all. I've never seen them answer a single question on the subject. I've never even seen them deny that it's true, because to deny it was true means to acknowledge the feedback even existed in the first place.

This is when I vowed never again to QC their patches for free. What's the point if they're too prideful to take any criticism that goes to the heart of whatever it is they're trying to do?

SeaArcanist

UtopianWarrior88 wrote: »

The amount of points into trees were changed and there were adjustments made to the exp curve. What would you like to have seen changed? Keep in mind that a goal was to reduce DPS - so CPs that give more DPS would never change anyway.

was expecting literal fixes.. like "dont you think 30 hp regen for every 10 ultimate is too much? especially when you are trying to reduce high hp regen builds owo." then like.. THAT was 100% ignored. lots of people had an issue with that passive. and they did nothing.

and thats just one passive.

SeaArcanist

and i can tell ya why that passive was ignored. because they gave up on trying to balance pvp. and hp regen was only really relevant in pvp. or arguably solo content, but still.

SeaArcanist

"hey guys, good news! alessians cant hit 1500 hp anymore, only 1,300 at most!... but.. we did add a champ passive that allows yo uto accumulate 1,500 hp regen.

those two choices contradict each other. was any thought put into that?

Mindcr0w

SeaArcanist wrote: »

was expecting literal fixes.. like "dont you think 30 hp regen for every 10 ultimate is too much? especially when you are trying to reduce high hp regen builds owo." then like.. THAT was 100% ignored. lots of people had an issue with that passive. and they did nothing.

and thats just one passive.

To be fair, and I am not saying the passive is balanced at 30 hp regen, but it did start off the pts at 50 hp.

Several other cp's also got nerfed. Not sure if many were things the community wanted nerfed.

Pink_Pixie

It brings new meaning to PTS - aka Pointless test server.

Bodycounter

They literally changed several champions points because of player feedback and adjusted how the overall system works.
What you are saying is: ZoS did not change the champion points you specifically wanted to be changed.

On top of that: They literally changed the champion point you mentioned as not being touched! It's obvious they won't completely rework every single champion point they have been working on for over a year because of a few weeks on PTS, isn't it? It will be adjusted if it proves too strong.

Sorry but i can't take your critics seriously if you are purposefully lying about what has been happening in the last few weeks. This is just bad for this community and i can't stand this behaviour anymore.

preevious

The problem is that it's night impossible to determine what feedback is worthy to be taken into account.

We, as players, don't really care about overall balance.
We just want the way we play to be rewarded, so, we tend to fight only in favors of our builds, often to the point of exageration.

I suppose they have their own channels for such feedbacks.
The PTS forum is only usefull for potential bugs, not for balance.

So, in the end, they will not (and should not) listen to the players opinions on balance.

NoSoup

The PTS is there for the community to do Quality Control testing for Zos, not for feedback.

Unless its role playing (emote while blocking) your feedback will be ignored (like all the polls/threads on the racial changes)

Xuhora

6.3.2

Champion System
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

Reduced the following stars to a maximum of 4 stages, rather than 5:
Blessed
Defiance
Eldritch Insight
Elemental Aegis
Hardy
Hasty
Hero's Vigor
Piercing
Precision
Preparation
Quick Recovery
Sprinter
Tireless Discipline
Tireless Guardian
Reduced the following stars to a maximum of 2 stages, rather than 5:
Battle Mastery
Flawless Ritual
Reduced the following stars to a maximum of 3 stages, rather than 4:
Savage Defense
Tumbling
The following skills are now slotted rather than passive to better mirror the other specific bonus type mechanics, such as damage done or damage taken:
Focused Mending
Soothing Tide
Swift Renewal
Bashing Brutality:
This passive is now 60 increased damage, down from 120.
Reduce the points per stage to 10, down from 20.
Reduced the maximum number of stages to 4, down from 5.
Fortification:
This passive is now 2% block mitigation per stage, down from 4%.
Reduced the points per stage to 15, down from 20.
Reduced the maximum number of stages to 3, down from 5.
Haggler: This star has been replaced with a new star, Gilded Fingers, which increases your gold gained by 2% per stage, up to 5 stages at 10 points per stage.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

Infamous: Fixed an issue where this passive did not work as stated.
Spirit Mastery:

This passive is now slotted rather than passive.
Increased the points required of this star to 50, up from 33.

Steed's Blessing: Reduced the Movement Speed granted from this passive to 0.4% per stage, down from 1%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Strategic Reserve: Reduced the Health Recovery per 10 Ultimate granted from this star to 30, down from 50.
Tempered Soul:

This passive now grants 5% more resources when you resurrect, down from 10%.
Reduced the points required per stage to 25, down from 50.

Improved the readability of the links between Champion skills.

6.3.3

Champion System

Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.
In efforts to make the Craft tree more accessible to lower level Champion Point characters, we’ve adjusted the cost per stage of stars, as well as the power level of some stars:
Fleet Phantom and Out of Sight have been swapped, as there are alternative methods of reducing or negating the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak, potentially making this star grant you nothing if you went for Out of Sight.
Infamous now increases fencing prices by 25%, up from 15% to help sweeten the deal.
Homemaker now costs a total of 25 points, down from 75.
Soul Reservoir is now a passive star rather than a slotted star, and costs a total of 33 points, down from 100, to help make this star more attractive for players who don’t hoard Soul Gems like necromantic overlords.
Reel Technique now costs a total of 50 points, down from 100, to help access stars near it less difficult.
Plentiful Harvest now costs 10 points per stage, down from 20, and reduced the chance of activating to 10% per stage, down from 20%. This was done to decrease the efficiency of the star, while also making it easier to access.
Meticulous Disassembly, Fade Away, and Treasure Hunter now cost 50 points, down from 100, to help equalize the point expenditure of each path to the head of the Thief.
Wanderer now costs 15 points per stage, down from 20, to help progress up the tree easier.
Steadfast Enchantment now costs 10 points per stage, down from 20, to help progress up the tree easier.
Lines in the Champion UI will now have an increased opacity when a star they are connected to is selected.

6.3.4

Champion Point System Update

Made numerous adjustments to battle leveling bonuses to tone down some of the power spiking seen with some stats, specifically with Weapon and Spell Damage and Health.

yep, "literally never changed".......
could you at least try to read the subsequent patchnotes on the PTS forum before posting something like that? I mean the forums are allready full of complaints about CP 2.0, but at least most of them do their research before complaining. Your feedback on the otherhand is just, nonsense...sorry to be so blatant....

phantasmalD

Realistically speaking balance feedback takes a very long time to show its effect. First everything needs to be collected+compiled for the balance team and then they have to analyze and discuss it extensively. Can't act upon every random comment immediately since then the game would be a random mishmash of contradictory mechanisms and systems.
And even if a change is given greenlight, it still needs to be implemented, debugged and tested, which obviously would take time. Possibly months, but at least weeks.

A comment asking for the entire system to be reworked is not going to be acted upon within the PTS cycle, but something that requires only one integer to be changed might be.

Araneae6537

Xuhora wrote: »

6.3.2

Champion System
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

Reduced the following stars to a maximum of 4 stages, rather than 5:
Blessed
Defiance
Eldritch Insight
Elemental Aegis
Hardy
Hasty
Hero's Vigor
Piercing
Precision
Preparation
Quick Recovery
Sprinter
Tireless Discipline
Tireless Guardian
Reduced the following stars to a maximum of 2 stages, rather than 5:
Battle Mastery
Flawless Ritual
Reduced the following stars to a maximum of 3 stages, rather than 4:
Savage Defense
Tumbling
The following skills are now slotted rather than passive to better mirror the other specific bonus type mechanics, such as damage done or damage taken:
Focused Mending
Soothing Tide
Swift Renewal
Bashing Brutality:
This passive is now 60 increased damage, down from 120.
Reduce the points per stage to 10, down from 20.
Reduced the maximum number of stages to 4, down from 5.
Fortification:
This passive is now 2% block mitigation per stage, down from 4%.
Reduced the points per stage to 15, down from 20.
Reduced the maximum number of stages to 3, down from 5.
Haggler: This star has been replaced with a new star, Gilded Fingers, which increases your gold gained by 2% per stage, up to 5 stages at 10 points per stage.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

Infamous: Fixed an issue where this passive did not work as stated.
Spirit Mastery:

This passive is now slotted rather than passive.
Increased the points required of this star to 50, up from 33.

Steed's Blessing: Reduced the Movement Speed granted from this passive to 0.4% per stage, down from 1%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Strategic Reserve: Reduced the Health Recovery per 10 Ultimate granted from this star to 30, down from 50.
Tempered Soul:

This passive now grants 5% more resources when you resurrect, down from 10%.
Reduced the points required per stage to 25, down from 50.

Improved the readability of the links between Champion skills.

6.3.3

Champion System

Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.
In efforts to make the Craft tree more accessible to lower level Champion Point characters, we’ve adjusted the cost per stage of stars, as well as the power level of some stars:
Fleet Phantom and Out of Sight have been swapped, as there are alternative methods of reducing or negating the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak, potentially making this star grant you nothing if you went for Out of Sight.
Infamous now increases fencing prices by 25%, up from 15% to help sweeten the deal.
Homemaker now costs a total of 25 points, down from 75.
Soul Reservoir is now a passive star rather than a slotted star, and costs a total of 33 points, down from 100, to help make this star more attractive for players who don’t hoard Soul Gems like necromantic overlords.
Reel Technique now costs a total of 50 points, down from 100, to help access stars near it less difficult.
Plentiful Harvest now costs 10 points per stage, down from 20, and reduced the chance of activating to 10% per stage, down from 20%. This was done to decrease the efficiency of the star, while also making it easier to access.
Meticulous Disassembly, Fade Away, and Treasure Hunter now cost 50 points, down from 100, to help equalize the point expenditure of each path to the head of the Thief.
Wanderer now costs 15 points per stage, down from 20, to help progress up the tree easier.
Steadfast Enchantment now costs 10 points per stage, down from 20, to help progress up the tree easier.
Lines in the Champion UI will now have an increased opacity when a star they are connected to is selected.

6.3.4

Champion Point System Update

Made numerous adjustments to battle leveling bonuses to tone down some of the power spiking seen with some stats, specifically with Weapon and Spell Damage and Health.

yep, "literally never changed".......
could you at least try to read the subsequent patchnotes on the PTS forum before posting something like that? I mean the forums are allready full of complaints about CP 2.0, but at least most of them do their research before complaining. Your feedback on the otherhand is just, nonsense...sorry to be so blatant....

Not just nonsense, an outright lie. This thread should be deleted IMO because it makes a false accusation. OP may not like how or what was changed, but to say no change was made is demonstrably false.

Viewsfrom6ix

Because a few dozen people on the forums think something should be change, then it must be done?

This is not how gaming companies operate. Some companies may be more transparent than others but ultimately they need to scale and make money. If sales decline then they need to pivot their strategy but obviously what they're doing currently is working.