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How champ 2.0 should have been handled
SeaArcanist
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This is my last post for awhile, but this offers my solution.
Zos should have initially released this update with a max cap for 1,200. unlocking 120 more levels each month following.
this would have eased the community's fear of "omg i gotta catch up" as well as give us a balanced playing field to give accurate feedback with.
it has been argued that the hcange in the champion points cap is justified because other mmo's raise the level cap all the time. and while that is true they usually only raise it by 5-10 levels. 8%-12.5% higher than what the old cap was.. not go from 810-3600 a 400% increase! XD... thats um.. not good.. like can u picture if WOW went from level 100 to 400!? no wonder the state of eso is in utter confusion atm. they didnt ease us into anything just threw us in chaos.
(EDIT) What im implying here is 810 use to be the benefit cap, and you could always level to 3600 (or try to XD) in 1.0
upon release of 2.0 the benefitcap should have been 1,200. level cap still 3,600. and only increaseing 100-120/month. this allows the casuals to play causally and maintain the benefit level. while the hardcore players can still level to the max if they wanted. This also balanced out the game at tis core, if every1 is closer in level, we get more accurate feedback.
Edited by SeaArcanist on March 10, 2021 6:42PM Zos should have initially released this update with a max cap for 1,200. unlocking 120 more levels each month following.
this would have eased the community's fear of "omg i gotta catch up" as well as give us a balanced playing field to give accurate feedback with.
it has been argued that the hcange in the champion points cap is justified because other mmo's raise the level cap all the time. and while that is true they usually only raise it by 5-10 levels. 8%-12.5% higher than what the old cap was.. not go from 810-3600 a 400% increase! XD... thats um.. not good.. like can u picture if WOW went from level 100 to 400!? no wonder the state of eso is in utter confusion atm. they didnt ease us into anything just threw us in chaos.
(EDIT) What im implying here is 810 use to be the benefit cap, and you could always level to 3600 (or try to XD) in 1.0
upon release of 2.0 the benefitcap should have been 1,200. level cap still 3,600. and only increaseing 100-120/month. this allows the casuals to play causally and maintain the benefit level. while the hardcore players can still level to the max if they wanted. This also balanced out the game at tis core, if every1 is closer in level, we get more accurate feedback.
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Ittrix✭✭✭The hard cap was actually always 3600, believe it or not.
Aside, CP should still have been converted. Clearly a lot of 'non MMO' players play this game and don't want this sort of thing. Most of the people who say otherwise seem to be either low CP and are happy with their biscuit or are an MMO player who's just glad it isn't WoW.3 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭The hard cap was actually always 3600, believe it or not.
Aside, CP should still have been converted. Clearly a lot of 'non MMO' players play this game and don't want this sort of thing. Most of the people who say otherwise seem to be either low CP and are happy with their biscuit or are an MMO player who's just glad it isn't WoW.
yeah the hardcap was 3600, but we didnt have access to 3600 or have it pop up. so arguably getting 1k was "alright im prepared for now and any future update! then yo ucould take ur time with leveling, etc.
810 was the benefit cap. 3,600 was the non-seeable level cap.
what i suggest is the new benefit cap should have began at 1,200. and went up 100-120/month. giving players a little moment of respite to rest between leveling. and those wh owanted to level could keep on leveling.
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Phaedryn✭✭✭The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.8
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Ittrix✭✭✭
if CP is so unimportant what's the problem with putting them at cap and keeping them at cap once they reach it?The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
for end game content, the need to maximize potential to compete in pve trials, leaderboards in maelstorm, or pvp, is very much an issue. players already champion 2k atm will arguably be taking those spots in leaderboards and have advantage in pvp.
there was no "easing" us into this, they threw it at us. and clearly people have advantages.0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I disagree with this solution.
Under the original system, before they capped usable at 810, the usable was 3600.
People that play the game more or longer will and should have a higher level than those that cant.
VMA was beatable at CP300 for a long time even before power creep increased dps
There really arnt that many people with 2000CP, the largest chunk are around 1200-1600
People are saying you start to get diminishing return around 1200CP.
If youre not at 1200, youll get there much faster now that under 1.0.
If people get thrown out of groups for vet content thats a problem with the group, not the system
If they are chasing leaderboards then its their choice whom to allow in the group or not.
If you can prove you can put up the DPS, I dont see where they would refuse you if you are a lower CP.Edited by Katahdin on March 10, 2021 7:27PMBeta tester November 20131 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This issue seems to be the result of ZOS doing just that. Had there not been a penalty imposed for accruing CP beyond the current max set by ZOS, I don't think that you would see as many complaints as we do right now. The penalty was in my opinion arbitrary and served no real purpose. It didn't provide incentive to play, obviously, because those asking for ZOS to reconsider did in fact continue to play without any progression toward their useable CP. I'm not sure doing the same thing again would solve much.
If anything, I would suggest that ZOS take those who were over cap and convert the penalties (only the XP from penalty) into useable CP. The change to the curve is fine. Some else earns their CP for less, who cares?
This was a no-win scenario for ZOS from the start.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭The hard cap was actually always 3600, believe it or not.
Aside, CP should still have been converted. Clearly a lot of 'non MMO' players play this game and don't want this sort of thing. Most of the people who say otherwise seem to be either low CP and are happy with their biscuit or are an MMO player who's just glad it isn't WoW.
This is actually unbelievably false especially in the cp pvp community. If you are not atleast 1400cp you will be destroyed by any player with half a brain 1400cp+. This means that if you were sitting at the 810 cap (you dont get much exp in pvp) then you will now need to grind 600 levels of exp to be remotely relevant in pvp anymore. can you let me know of a pvp player that would rather run skyreach 500-1000 times over pvp'ing in imperial city or cyrodiil? Because everyone I've talked to is extremely angry about this.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭
if CP is so unimportant what's the problem with putting them at cap and keeping them at cap once they reach it?The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
Cp is incredibly important in pvp now with CP 2.0. More so than in CP 1.0. If you haven't realized this then you have not pvp'd and there are L2P issues. Take it from a 1vx player who has played this game since beta such as myself.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually, it seems to me that the bulk of the players with CP are below 1000. I am pretty sure they said that on ESO Live somewhere.There really arnt that many people with 2000CP, the largest chunk are around 1200-1600SeaArcanist wrote: »Zos should have initially released this update with a max cap for 1,200. unlocking 120 more levels each month following.
They should have had a hard cap that started with 900 and increased it 90 CP every update until they got to their target soft cap, then opened the system to 3600. The end result is the same, but it just takes 11 updates (3 years) to do it.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
This 100%. A part of the playerbase is just so obsessed with numbers on paper, I really don’t understand it. The same with racial changes where there’s an uproar because their race gets nerfed by 1% overall or whatever and everybody now wants to change their race to another one because they are no longer competitive. It makes the game so much worse overall and it’s the kind of tunnel vision that sucks every particle of fun out of the game.Edited by Seraphayel on March 10, 2021 8:50PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭
Actually, it seems to me that the bulk of the players with CP are below 1000. I am pretty sure they said that on ESO Live somewhere.There really arnt that many people with 2000CP, the largest chunk are around 1200-1600SeaArcanist wrote: »Zos should have initially released this update with a max cap for 1,200. unlocking 120 more levels each month following.
They should have had a hard cap that started with 900 and increased it 90 CP every update until they got to their target soft cap, then opened the system to 3600. The end result is the same, but it just takes 11 updates (3 years) to do it.
The average player is actually around cp level 400. This is literally the only change that they can potentially make other than not requiring one to reach such a high cp level to compete with players already there. If I was working for ZoS as a forum manager or something and saw the mass amount of forum post complaints about this honestly I would be on a holy war of a mission to get the devs to make these changes so that so many people aren't forced to grind exp for hundreds of levels/hours on end to enjoy the endgame content they used to or haven't reached yet due to their low cp level.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
This 100%. A part of the playerbase is just so obsessed with numbers on paper, I really don’t understand it. The same with racial changes where there’s an uproar because their race gets nerfed by 1% overall or whatever and everybody know wants to change their race to another one because they are no longer competitive. It makes the game so much worse overall and it’s the kind of tunnel vision that sucks every particle of fun out of the game.
That is a larger problem, but the jump from a hard cap of 810 to a soft cap of 1800 has people freaked out and not thinking correctly about the problem currently at hand. I think the CP catch-up, in concert with the overall changes in the Champion System and the skills reset, has them chasing after boogymen.
Meanwhile, other people are already in the game doing what they were doing before this whole kerfuffle.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
This 100%. A part of the playerbase is just so obsessed with numbers on paper, I really don’t understand it. The same with racial changes where there’s an uproar because their race gets nerfed by 1% overall or whatever and everybody know wants to change their race to another one because they are no longer competitive. It makes the game so much worse overall and it’s the kind of tunnel vision that sucks every particle of fun out of the game.
That is a larger problem, but the jump from a hard cap of 810 to a soft cap of 1800 has people freaked out and not thinking correctly about the problem currently at hand. I think the CP catch-up, in concert with the overall changes in the Champion System and the skills reset, has them chasing after boogymen.
Meanwhile, other people are already in the game doing what they were doing before this whole kerfuffle.
This is incredibly false especially in CP PVP. If you cp pvp you're not playing the same game that you used to with these changes whatsoever. It is not just numbers on paper. If you are not cp 1400+ you will be getting rolled by anyone who is cp 1400+ this includes players who are even 1200+ cp. It is a hard cut off and it is extremely noticeable in game in cp pvp. You do not gain vasts amounts of cp experience while pvp'ing, so if this is the endgame content you enjoy you have to go grind skyreach to be relevant in pvp again. If you were at the old cp cap this means literally 600 levels of skyreach grinding. Nobody pvp player I know wants to grind 600 cp. A lot are quitting indefinitely at least within the IC CP community and I am thinking of doing the same myself. But no it is certainly not numbers on paper lmaooooo.1 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
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Thanks for raising this point. In some games you need to reach the max level in order to get bis gear and participate in endgame content. As a result, every subsequent expansion raises the max level, to have players grind again.The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
In ESO things work differently. You reach "max" level at CP160... So you are perfectly relevant after that and you don't need to refarm everything every expansion. CPs are a long term bonus to keep you playing the game and feel like your character is progressing. Ofc they make your life easier, but unless you are leaderboard pushing or hunting trifectas you don't even need CPs... they are just convenient buffs and QoL improvements. CP3600 is not meant to be grinded overnight, but throughout your ESO career...Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭
Thanks for raising this point. In some games you need to reach the max level in order to get bis gear and participate in endgame content. As a result, every subsequent expansion raises the max level, to have players grind again.The problem isn't how Zos implemented the cap, the problem is players with the mindset they need to be at the cap. It's those players who are the problem. This isn't other MMOs, you are perfectly fine not being anywhere near the cap. If players want to beat their head against their desk chasing max CP, that's on them, not Zos.
In ESO things work differently. You reach "max" level at CP160... So you are perfectly relevant after that and you don't need to refarm everything every expansion. CPs are a long term bonus to keep you playing the game and feel like your character is progressing. Ofc they make your life easier, but unless you are leaderboard pushing or hunting trifectas you don't even need CPs... they are just convenient buffs and QoL improvements. CP3600 is not meant to be grinded overnight, but throughout your ESO career...
This is incredibly false within the CP PVP community which is literally half of endgame content. Read my post right above yours.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is incredibly false especially in CP PVP. If you cp pvp you're not playing the same game that you used to with these changes whatsoever. It is not just numbers on paper. If you are not cp 1400+ you will be getting rolled by anyone who is cp 1400+ this includes players who are even 1200+ cp. It is a hard cut off and it is extremely noticeable in game in cp pvp. You do not gain vasts amounts of cp experience while pvp'ing, so if this is the endgame content you enjoy you have to go grind skyreach to be relevant in pvp again. If you were at the old cp cap this means literally 600 levels of skyreach grinding. Nobody pvp player I know wants to grind 600 cp. A lot are quitting indefinitely at least within the IC CP community and I am thinking of doing the same myself. But no it is certainly not numbers on paper lmaooooo.
Sigh. I did forget to add in the whole sets thing in PVP. Add that to the massive level of change in the game for a single update that has people freaked out.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭This is incredibly false especially in CP PVP. If you cp pvp you're not playing the same game that you used to with these changes whatsoever. It is not just numbers on paper. If you are not cp 1400+ you will be getting rolled by anyone who is cp 1400+ this includes players who are even 1200+ cp. It is a hard cut off and it is extremely noticeable in game in cp pvp. You do not gain vasts amounts of cp experience while pvp'ing, so if this is the endgame content you enjoy you have to go grind skyreach to be relevant in pvp again. If you were at the old cp cap this means literally 600 levels of skyreach grinding. Nobody pvp player I know wants to grind 600 cp. A lot are quitting indefinitely at least within the IC CP community and I am thinking of doing the same myself. But no it is certainly not numbers on paper lmaooooo.
Sigh. I did forget to add in the whole sets thing in PVP. Add that to the massive level of change in the game for a single update that has people freaked out.
It's literally 600 levels from the past cap. I don't know if this hits PVE as hard but its a pretty horrible change for CP PVP. If you look at the cp tree especially the blue portion it should be very obvious that you need to be at least 1400 if you have any pvp game sense whatsoever. I have confirmed this empirically (not just with numbers) with several other people within the IC PVP community that even if you're 1200CP you're getting rolled by anyone above 1400. A bunch of CP PVP players got wrecked by these changes as you don't gain that much exp in pvp so most of us are sat close to the old 810 cap. This includes myself which is why I'll be taking a massive break from the game because I thought the dev team were done with implementing this sort of garbage that pisses their whole community off but I guess not and I'm not giving them my money/subjecting myself to it.
edit: I have played this game since beta and it is arguably the grossest P2W money grab change I have ever seen made to the game. Like yuck yuck yuck.Edited by nublife01 on March 10, 2021 9:46PM0
